Original post: Obsidian
[QUOTE=Venefica;289462]I am a Transhumanist, I believe in the possibility of human beings living for ever physically, and that is what I want for myself and what I am working for. Now I want to celebrate the Wiccan Sabbaths and Esbats. But I worry that their themes will time me more closely to the cycle of life, death and rebirth witch is what I am trying to escape. So I am not sure if the Energy of such celebrations will be in accordance whit my wish and workings for physical immortality.
Now in this tread I am not looking for a debate on whatever physical immortality is morally right or not, I am simply asking of Sabbaths and Esbats celebrations will mess up whit my workings for such immortality.[/QUOTE]
The reason you feel as though these celebrations might be a distraction is because you are identifiying with them too deeply. Instead, celebrate them and enjoy them for the celebrations that they are. You are not the celebration itself.
At the same time, keep your eyes on your personal goal: physical immortality.
There are a couple of books by Eckhart Tolle called "The Power of Now" and "A New Earth". In those books he does well to explain a more unique perspective on how to view things that will assist anyone in stepping back from situations that seem overpowering in order to see them for what they are rather than what your habits make them out to be.
There will always be those folks who are not for this sort of thing and that's fine. That's their cup of tea. I will avoid death to the best of my ability, but I also feel that death is necessary........for those who want it. I don't mean that in a malevolent way either. I feel that it is part of the natural process that not all living things are equal. Therefore, only those who adapt will continue.
I enjoy the aesthetics of death such as cemeteries, hearses, skulls, images of the grim reaper, etc. They represent the opposite of transhumanism, but that doesn't worry me at all. I still look forward to physical immortality and I have made efforts to ensure that as best I can by signing up for cryonic suspension.
I also have other methods that I am working on in case my current options fail. A transhumanist covers all of his/her bases.
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Original post: MostlyJust_Water
Hmm... I'm going to have to be contrapuntal here. I don't personally believe that they would harm you. As a matter of fact, I think that if you were to view them in the right manner, they could be of great assistance. Whereas the surface view is to see them as a process of life and death, think of the deeper implications. These beings are living and dying, but it's the same beings over, and over, and over again, year after year.
An immortalist myself (apparently transhumanist, though I am not yet familiar enough with the connotations behind that word to associate myself with it), I think the folly that most immortalists encounter is trying to deny death. That... sounds like a huge contradiction, but really I think that death may be the easiest route to immortality. I guess the best way to explain it would be like this: when a man learns to walk over fire without sustaining burns, the fire is still there, he is just traversing it in a state in which it does not affect him; gods die just like man, the only difference is that they can live through it.
If death is going to be looming, why must it be permanent? I'm not talking about reincarnation into different beings. I'm talking about approaching death in a way in which it doesn't affect you.
Anyway, I celebrate the sabbats myself, when I get the chance. I don't keep track of time for the most part, so I don't usually know when they are, but when one of my friends happens to mention one coming up in such-and-such amount of days, or something, and it happens to coincide with some reason that I would want to celebrate it... I don't think that they have hurt me from an immortality standpoint at all. Doing such things as meditations to project into the underworld on Samhain, or rituals celebrating the God's rebirth and such, I think, have shifted my view of death completely.
As a matter of fact, I'm not sure that I would be able to seriously consider the possibility of physical immortality if I hadn't spent a few long Samhain nights all tranced out, visiting the lands of the dead... And then coming back to tell the tale.
Also, I'm curious as to what diets are part of your transhumanist program?
Oh yeah, and you might want to check out Tom Robbins's book, Jitterbug Perfume.
Hmm... I'm going to have to be contrapuntal here. I don't personally believe that they would harm you. As a matter of fact, I think that if you were to view them in the right manner, they could be of great assistance. Whereas the surface view is to see them as a process of life and death, think of the deeper implications. These beings are living and dying, but it's the same beings over, and over, and over again, year after year.
An immortalist myself (apparently transhumanist, though I am not yet familiar enough with the connotations behind that word to associate myself with it), I think the folly that most immortalists encounter is trying to deny death. That... sounds like a huge contradiction, but really I think that death may be the easiest route to immortality. I guess the best way to explain it would be like this: when a man learns to walk over fire without sustaining burns, the fire is still there, he is just traversing it in a state in which it does not affect him; gods die just like man, the only difference is that they can live through it.
If death is going to be looming, why must it be permanent? I'm not talking about reincarnation into different beings. I'm talking about approaching death in a way in which it doesn't affect you.
Anyway, I celebrate the sabbats myself, when I get the chance. I don't keep track of time for the most part, so I don't usually know when they are, but when one of my friends happens to mention one coming up in such-and-such amount of days, or something, and it happens to coincide with some reason that I would want to celebrate it... I don't think that they have hurt me from an immortality standpoint at all. Doing such things as meditations to project into the underworld on Samhain, or rituals celebrating the God's rebirth and such, I think, have shifted my view of death completely.
As a matter of fact, I'm not sure that I would be able to seriously consider the possibility of physical immortality if I hadn't spent a few long Samhain nights all tranced out, visiting the lands of the dead... And then coming back to tell the tale.
Also, I'm curious as to what diets are part of your transhumanist program?
Oh yeah, and you might want to check out Tom Robbins's book, Jitterbug Perfume.
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Original post: Venefica
First of all thank you all for your replies, they are very helpful, also I am sorry I have not responded sooner, but I have not had opportunity to visit this site the last few days. I am in a bit of a hurry now so to must be my reply. I will write more later.
I believe that the reason we need more lives to develop is becouse there is not enough time to do so in one human life span, if time is available though I believe we would develop, and change even if living the same life. To me eternal life do not mean stagnation.
The diets I have talked about is mostly based on eating what they eat in places where pepole live very long, like Japan for example. And combining this this vitamins and making sure one never eat so much as to be completely full. Basically eating healthy. Well this is my goal, I have a problem whit food and is overweight but I am working on that as a first step towards immortality.
I agree that not all would want to live forever. I once asked my grandparents if they would like to live forever. They said no, they would like to be taken back to the time they where 50 and get to live another 50 years like that. For then they felt they was at their best and had no old age ailments. My mother to would like to extend her life, but not live forever.
The Asian ideas of of aging occurring becouse of using up ones Energy or life force is very interesting. If that is so, finding a way to replenish said Energy would solve the problem. Many taoist swear by this method. It is my number one interested in this field.
The reason why I am interested in both scientific and magical methods to immortality is that it is for me to goal that is important, not the means. It is like if one is out in the desert dying of thirst and someone come to you whit a glass of water and you say no, I rather die, I only drink from bottles. To me using what is available is what is important.
Sorry for the chaotic post. I just replied to a few points I had seen in the tread all in a hurry. I will make a proper reply later when I have a chance to. Again thank you for all your replies pepole.
First of all thank you all for your replies, they are very helpful, also I am sorry I have not responded sooner, but I have not had opportunity to visit this site the last few days. I am in a bit of a hurry now so to must be my reply. I will write more later.
I believe that the reason we need more lives to develop is becouse there is not enough time to do so in one human life span, if time is available though I believe we would develop, and change even if living the same life. To me eternal life do not mean stagnation.
The diets I have talked about is mostly based on eating what they eat in places where pepole live very long, like Japan for example. And combining this this vitamins and making sure one never eat so much as to be completely full. Basically eating healthy. Well this is my goal, I have a problem whit food and is overweight but I am working on that as a first step towards immortality.
I agree that not all would want to live forever. I once asked my grandparents if they would like to live forever. They said no, they would like to be taken back to the time they where 50 and get to live another 50 years like that. For then they felt they was at their best and had no old age ailments. My mother to would like to extend her life, but not live forever.
The Asian ideas of of aging occurring becouse of using up ones Energy or life force is very interesting. If that is so, finding a way to replenish said Energy would solve the problem. Many taoist swear by this method. It is my number one interested in this field.
The reason why I am interested in both scientific and magical methods to immortality is that it is for me to goal that is important, not the means. It is like if one is out in the desert dying of thirst and someone come to you whit a glass of water and you say no, I rather die, I only drink from bottles. To me using what is available is what is important.
Sorry for the chaotic post. I just replied to a few points I had seen in the tread all in a hurry. I will make a proper reply later when I have a chance to. Again thank you for all your replies pepole.
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Original post: Serenity
Interesting topic...transhumanism...
personally i would rather die and die younger at that than live forever (or a very long time) here. No matter what anybody says or believes, no one really knows what's going to happen after death, making it probably the biggest adventure i, or anybody else will take in life.
Besides physical immortality is a virtual impossibilty (as much as i hate that world), because countless years in the future this universe will end, in the big rip, big freeze or heat death, etc. and i don't know how technology however advanced can stop something all matter and energy will be invovled in.
Death is a natural part of life and im prepared to accept what nature has prepared for me. Does the future of humanity live in the form of "advanced" technology chasing whoever's perception of perfection of body? or does it live in the realm of thought and spirit? id prefer the later
Interesting topic...transhumanism...
personally i would rather die and die younger at that than live forever (or a very long time) here. No matter what anybody says or believes, no one really knows what's going to happen after death, making it probably the biggest adventure i, or anybody else will take in life.
Besides physical immortality is a virtual impossibilty (as much as i hate that world), because countless years in the future this universe will end, in the big rip, big freeze or heat death, etc. and i don't know how technology however advanced can stop something all matter and energy will be invovled in.
Death is a natural part of life and im prepared to accept what nature has prepared for me. Does the future of humanity live in the form of "advanced" technology chasing whoever's perception of perfection of body? or does it live in the realm of thought and spirit? id prefer the later
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Original post: Venefica
I think that if I have lived for several billion years and the universe start to collapse around me, I surly would have advanced enough on my magickal path to come up whit a solution. Making it to 150 is my main concern now. I will take the big crunch when we get there. :evil:
I think that if I have lived for several billion years and the universe start to collapse around me, I surly would have advanced enough on my magickal path to come up whit a solution. Making it to 150 is my main concern now. I will take the big crunch when we get there. :evil:
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Original post: Serenity
"i plan on on living forever...so far so good"
"i plan on on living forever...so far so good"
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Original post: Blackbird
[QUOTE=Serenity;290576]"i plan on on living forever...so far so good"[/QUOTE]
lol. ::hands you a cigarette::
[QUOTE=Serenity;290576]"i plan on on living forever...so far so good"
[/QUOTE]lol. ::hands you a cigarette::
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Original post: Raal
Yes, this subject interests me also, very much. I have no time now to read the whole thread so I hope I dont repeat anything that has been said already, but since you mentioned that you're a transhumanist I wanted to direct you to a thread I made on another forum (abrahadabra forum) about this topic: (but that is down now so I'll give the link later...
)
Well as was probably said the Taoists have aimed for immortality or at least for long life. Generally speaking, in Asia long life is considered as fortunate while the European (Christian) and some parts of the Indian traditions consider life as good but something that must be abandoned and not "unnaturally" prolonged overly much. (e.g. the Christian saying that: only the good die young, the evil seem to live longer cause God gives them opportunity to amend their sinful deeds etc.)
Some factors that are important for long life (if not for immortality) are: genes (from your mother especially- Im lucky here), food (and also fasting btw: scientists have found out that many animals who are given no or less food twice a week live up to one third longer than others. again: the Christian fasting rule makes sense, it seems), energy supply and balance and character/personality: e.g. if you're more open for new things and love to play around even at an old age you'll be more youthful, naturally- at least in demeanour. Another factor is maybe not to work, or not to toil or slavework too much, or if you do- then only things that you'd do anyway...
But prolonging life itself gives you only the opportunity for longer research in the topic of immortality itself cause this (latter) would need to be dealt with on a more structural level, a meta-level- "beyond life and death" so to speak....
Yes, this subject interests me also, very much. I have no time now to read the whole thread so I hope I dont repeat anything that has been said already, but since you mentioned that you're a transhumanist I wanted to direct you to a thread I made on another forum (abrahadabra forum) about this topic: (but that is down now so I'll give the link later...
)Well as was probably said the Taoists have aimed for immortality or at least for long life. Generally speaking, in Asia long life is considered as fortunate while the European (Christian) and some parts of the Indian traditions consider life as good but something that must be abandoned and not "unnaturally" prolonged overly much. (e.g. the Christian saying that: only the good die young, the evil seem to live longer cause God gives them opportunity to amend their sinful deeds etc.)
Some factors that are important for long life (if not for immortality) are: genes (from your mother especially- Im lucky here), food (and also fasting btw: scientists have found out that many animals who are given no or less food twice a week live up to one third longer than others. again: the Christian fasting rule makes sense, it seems), energy supply and balance and character/personality: e.g. if you're more open for new things and love to play around even at an old age you'll be more youthful, naturally- at least in demeanour. Another factor is maybe not to work, or not to toil or slavework too much, or if you do- then only things that you'd do anyway...
But prolonging life itself gives you only the opportunity for longer research in the topic of immortality itself cause this (latter) would need to be dealt with on a more structural level, a meta-level- "beyond life and death" so to speak....
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Original post: Venefica
Thank you for the advice. Yes there seam to be a shift in opinion on this between East and West. I think that to many Christians, and remember originally Christianity was a religion that attracted the poor. That it made them able to live very hard, thankless lives becouse they believed that when they died, they would go to a wondrous place. If that is the idea, then there is no point to wish for a long life. In the East few of the religions made such promise and the only way to make a longer life for one self, and for one's children was to live long and work for it.
Thank you for the advice. Yes there seam to be a shift in opinion on this between East and West. I think that to many Christians, and remember originally Christianity was a religion that attracted the poor. That it made them able to live very hard, thankless lives becouse they believed that when they died, they would go to a wondrous place. If that is the idea, then there is no point to wish for a long life. In the East few of the religions made such promise and the only way to make a longer life for one self, and for one's children was to live long and work for it.
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Original post: undinesilver
[QUOTE=Venefica;289462]I am a Transhumanist, I believe in the possibility of human beings living for ever physically, and that is what I want for myself and what I am working for. [/QUOTE]
That actually really grabbed my attention. Keep in mind that I'm curious (as the subject of physical immortality is something I didn't know was actually something people attempt to achieve, and thought it would make me crazy if I believed in it
), but how can you strive to achieve it?
I'm curious. Maybe I should post a new thread about it somewhere, but it grabbed my attention and I couldn't help but ask.
What are some techniques toward achieving it, I mean?
[QUOTE=Venefica;289462]I am a Transhumanist, I believe in the possibility of human beings living for ever physically, and that is what I want for myself and what I am working for. [/QUOTE]
That actually really grabbed my attention. Keep in mind that I'm curious (as the subject of physical immortality is something I didn't know was actually something people attempt to achieve, and thought it would make me crazy if I believed in it
), but how can you strive to achieve it?I'm curious. Maybe I should post a new thread about it somewhere, but it grabbed my attention and I couldn't help but ask.
What are some techniques toward achieving it, I mean?
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Original post: Centrix
What is physical immortality? Staying alive with your body at the optimum functioning level without the aging disease to pull the plug on you and deanimate your body. If you are familiar with the biological sciences, you will recognize the daily breathroughs that will contribute to this field -- however, it still needs a bit more time. This is an issue of cellular engineering, as the body is a machine and can be fixed and changed as desired.
undinesilver;296283 wrote:That actually really grabbed my attention. Keep in mind that I'm curious (as the subject of physical immortality is something I didn't know was actually something people attempt to achieve, and thought it would make me crazy if I believed in it
I'm curious. Maybe I should post a new thread about it somewhere, but it grabbed my attention and I couldn't help but ask.
What are some techniques toward achieving it, I mean?
What is physical immortality? Staying alive with your body at the optimum functioning level without the aging disease to pull the plug on you and deanimate your body. If you are familiar with the biological sciences, you will recognize the daily breathroughs that will contribute to this field -- however, it still needs a bit more time. This is an issue of cellular engineering, as the body is a machine and can be fixed and changed as desired.
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Original post: undinesilver
[QUOTE=Centrix;296339]What is physical immortality? Staying alive with your body at the optimum functioning level without the aging disease to pull the plug on you and deanimate your body. If you are familiar with the biological sciences, you will recognize the daily breathroughs that will contribute to this field -- however, it still needs a bit more time.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I know what physical immortality is. What my question was about was how people are attempting to achieve it. What techniques people employ, etc.
[QUOTE=Centrix;296339]What is physical immortality? Staying alive with your body at the optimum functioning level without the aging disease to pull the plug on you and deanimate your body. If you are familiar with the biological sciences, you will recognize the daily breathroughs that will contribute to this field -- however, it still needs a bit more time.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I know what physical immortality is.
What my question was about was how people are attempting to achieve it. What techniques people employ, etc.-
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Original post: Centrix
(Book) The Scientific Conquest of Death: Essays on Infinite Lifespans (2004) by Immortality Institute.
Reviews:
"In The Scientific Conquest of Death, a group of well-respected scientists and theorists take on the biological and philosophical arguments against radically extending the human life span..." [by: Sonia Arrison] TechNewsWorld - Dec 12, 2004
"The Immortality Institute (ImmInst.org), a 501c3 non-profit educational organization, has brought together nineteen scientists, doctors and philosophers to share their perspective on what may be the most significant scientific development that humanity has ever faced â?? the eradication of aging and mortality..." PRWeb - Nov 6, 2004
Free PDF: http://www.imminst.org/SCOD.pdf
(Book) The Scientific Conquest of Death: Essays on Infinite Lifespans (2004) by Immortality Institute.
Reviews:
"In The Scientific Conquest of Death, a group of well-respected scientists and theorists take on the biological and philosophical arguments against radically extending the human life span..." [by: Sonia Arrison] TechNewsWorld - Dec 12, 2004
"The Immortality Institute (ImmInst.org), a 501c3 non-profit educational organization, has brought together nineteen scientists, doctors and philosophers to share their perspective on what may be the most significant scientific development that humanity has ever faced â?? the eradication of aging and mortality..." PRWeb - Nov 6, 2004
Free PDF: http://www.imminst.org/SCOD.pdf
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Original post: undinesilver
Centrix: Thanks for the link. I'll go check it out now.
Centrix: Thanks for the link. I'll go check it out now.