Original post: Idiot
[QUOTE=durki]Earth is unique & exclusive among all physical planets not only in our Milky Way Galaxy but whole of physical cosmos. Even astral beings aspire for earthly sex. When astral beings are intent on physical sex, they gravitate towards earth. But sex is a double-edged weapon which can harm you as well as do good. It should be harnessed keeping laws of Nature & Spirit in mind. For example, incest takes you downhill.[/QUOTE]
....
So you've seen all of the physical cosmos and can honestly report that the Earth is unique for the sex Earth beings have? And this isn't something to be proud of?!?
Why can't sex just be sex anymore? Like Feranaja said, it just IS. Attatchment to sex can be counter productive, just as can attatchment to ANYTHING. Just because your physical body is irrelevant in the scope of eternal bliss doesn't mean you can't have fun with it while it still works.
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Original post: durki
Sex & celibacy are two sides of the same coin. If you approach your partner with an attitude of genuine love, you will generate positive interactions which would make you evolve into a better soul. On the contrary, approaching your partner with carnal lust will cause your degeneration. If you practise celibacy and spurn opposite gender with contemptuousness, then you are going downhill. On the contrary, though a celibate but if you are seeing every one with loving divine eyes then you are walking on the road to sainthood.
Sex & celibacy are two sides of the same coin. If you approach your partner with an attitude of genuine love, you will generate positive interactions which would make you evolve into a better soul. On the contrary, approaching your partner with carnal lust will cause your degeneration. If you practise celibacy and spurn opposite gender with contemptuousness, then you are going downhill. On the contrary, though a celibate but if you are seeing every one with loving divine eyes then you are walking on the road to sainthood.
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Original post: ~ Serenity ~
Sorry but I just dont see "genuine love" and carnal lust as opposites in this way. I can feel carnal lust for someone I genuinely love, is that ok then?
I suppose its my Paganism but I cant see lust as bad and love as good. When they occur together its one of life's most transcendent experiences but separately? they're good too.
I personally feel love is good no matter what kind - who what when why or how. I was recently anguishing over this issue and my best friend said " Catherine shut up.Love is love is love, stop complicating things". (Shes 70 and basically knows everything, lol). So thats my philosophy, love is just good. Lust is great too. Together they're sublime. Separately they're still gifts of the spirit and the body - if you make that separation, I mean.
I know what youre driving at here durki but I think - youre just making it too hard. Most of us aren't saints nor are we going to be. Let us take our baby steps toward realizing divinity. Sex can do that. Love of any sort can do that. The fewer restrictions we place on these areas the more the divine aspects can come through.
Remember though, youre talking to a Pagan (well actually a bunch of us). Aphrodite is as holy as Hestia from where I sit. Any philosophy that vilifies sexuality or the body in general scares me. My process is probably just way different from yours.
fera
Sorry but I just dont see "genuine love" and carnal lust as opposites in this way. I can feel carnal lust for someone I genuinely love, is that ok then?
I suppose its my Paganism but I cant see lust as bad and love as good. When they occur together its one of life's most transcendent experiences but separately? they're good too.
I personally feel love is good no matter what kind - who what when why or how. I was recently anguishing over this issue and my best friend said " Catherine shut up.Love is love is love, stop complicating things". (Shes 70 and basically knows everything, lol). So thats my philosophy, love is just good. Lust is great too. Together they're sublime. Separately they're still gifts of the spirit and the body - if you make that separation, I mean.
I know what youre driving at here durki but I think - youre just making it too hard. Most of us aren't saints nor are we going to be. Let us take our baby steps toward realizing divinity. Sex can do that. Love of any sort can do that. The fewer restrictions we place on these areas the more the divine aspects can come through.
Remember though, youre talking to a Pagan (well actually a bunch of us). Aphrodite is as holy as Hestia from where I sit. Any philosophy that vilifies sexuality or the body in general scares me. My process is probably just way different from yours.
fera
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Original post: durki
There is more than a shade difference between lust & love. Lust is born out of selfish interest where you intend to garner pleasures for yourself at the cost of your partner and love is born out of sacrificing attitude where you have got in your mind pleasures of your partner. Higher than both is attitude of a noble man who co-habits with the intention of producing a divine child who would provide relief to society by alleviating misery and uplifting humanity.
There is more than a shade difference between lust & love. Lust is born out of selfish interest where you intend to garner pleasures for yourself at the cost of your partner and love is born out of sacrificing attitude where you have got in your mind pleasures of your partner. Higher than both is attitude of a noble man who co-habits with the intention of producing a divine child who would provide relief to society by alleviating misery and uplifting humanity.
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Original post: Sud Ram
oh the preaching... you should do this and that. bla bla.
quoting the lustful and perversely homosexual (is that a should or a should not?) George Michael: "sex is natural, sex is good, everybody does it and everybody should" (oh sh*t, he said should).
You think so much about sex durki, should you?
I think you just feel very guilty. It's ok to be lustful you know, it's ok to think about incest, rape, molestation, torture, cannibalism and all the "horrible" things. They are thoughts. The more you think they are "wrong", the more trouble they stir up inside you - they are there just saying, "we exist!". What's wrong with existence?
I have lot's of lust, and yeah I still do feel guilty for wanting to jump on my best friend's girlfriend (or whatever, just examples...) but what to do? It's there, it's a thought, if I let it be, it goes. That's holistic sex.
Working THROUGH guilt, not against it, works for me. I'm much better than I used to since I've understood that it's ok to be who I am and do what I want to do (not necessarily what I feel like doing, nuance).
So let the girls come! I'm single and I'm great in bed (or anywhere else).
Peace
oh the preaching... you should do this and that. bla bla.
quoting the lustful and perversely homosexual (is that a should or a should not?) George Michael: "sex is natural, sex is good, everybody does it and everybody should" (oh sh*t, he said should).
You think so much about sex durki, should you?
I think you just feel very guilty. It's ok to be lustful you know, it's ok to think about incest, rape, molestation, torture, cannibalism and all the "horrible" things. They are thoughts. The more you think they are "wrong", the more trouble they stir up inside you - they are there just saying, "we exist!". What's wrong with existence?
I have lot's of lust, and yeah I still do feel guilty for wanting to jump on my best friend's girlfriend (or whatever, just examples...) but what to do? It's there, it's a thought, if I let it be, it goes. That's holistic sex.
Working THROUGH guilt, not against it, works for me. I'm much better than I used to since I've understood that it's ok to be who I am and do what I want to do (not necessarily what I feel like doing, nuance).
So let the girls come! I'm single and I'm great in bed (or anywhere else).
Peace
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Original post: Idiot
[QUOTE=Sud Ram]oh the preaching... you should do this and that. bla bla.
quoting the lustful and perversely homosexual (is that a should or a should not?) George Michael: "sex is natural, sex is good, everybody does it and everybody should" (oh sh*t, he said should).
You think so much about sex durki, should you?
I think you just feel very guilty. It's ok to be lustful you know, it's ok to think about incest, rape, molestation, torture, cannibalism and all the "horrible" things. They are thoughts. The more you think they are "wrong", the more trouble they stir up inside you - they are there just saying, "we exist!". What's wrong with existence?
I have lot's of lust, and yeah I still do feel guilty for wanting to jump on my best friend's girlfriend (or whatever, just examples...) but what to do? It's there, it's a thought, if I let it be, it goes. That's holistic sex.
Working THROUGH guilt, not against it, works for me. I'm much better than I used to since I've understood that it's ok to be who I am and do what I want to do (not necessarily what I feel like doing, nuance).
So let the girls come! I'm single and I'm great in bed (or anywhere else).
Peace[/QUOTE]
That was awesome. I have to go into prosthetic surgery now just so I can give you more than a scant two thumbs up. But where to put the extra thumbs....
[QUOTE=Sud Ram]oh the preaching... you should do this and that. bla bla.
quoting the lustful and perversely homosexual (is that a should or a should not?) George Michael: "sex is natural, sex is good, everybody does it and everybody should" (oh sh*t, he said should).
You think so much about sex durki, should you?
I think you just feel very guilty. It's ok to be lustful you know, it's ok to think about incest, rape, molestation, torture, cannibalism and all the "horrible" things. They are thoughts. The more you think they are "wrong", the more trouble they stir up inside you - they are there just saying, "we exist!". What's wrong with existence?
I have lot's of lust, and yeah I still do feel guilty for wanting to jump on my best friend's girlfriend (or whatever, just examples...) but what to do? It's there, it's a thought, if I let it be, it goes. That's holistic sex.
Working THROUGH guilt, not against it, works for me. I'm much better than I used to since I've understood that it's ok to be who I am and do what I want to do (not necessarily what I feel like doing, nuance).
So let the girls come! I'm single and I'm great in bed (or anywhere else).
Peace[/QUOTE]
That was awesome. I have to go into prosthetic surgery now just so I can give you more than a scant two thumbs up. But where to put the extra thumbs....
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Original post: KCh
As with all things, you only get 'out' of something what you put 'in' to it.
Sure, Sex can be and often is 'fun' or 'pleasurable', but why restrict something to purely entertainment value?
One of the reason I get into all this "Magickal" stuff is because I want to find Spirit. I want to utilize Spirit. So, I make everything a Sacrament, including Sex.
It just so happens that Sex, when approached as a Sacrament, can turn the densest of Lead into the purest of Gold through the most powerful Alchemical rite we humans possess. To take something so bestial and a part of our nature and find a spirituality within its practice that none other can match.
What other practice can turn one from complete depression into the greatest of Joy when done properly? What other practice can show the Unity of All so Perfectly? What other Joy do we find greater than that of complete annihilation in Union?
As with all things, you only get 'out' of something what you put 'in' to it.
Sure, Sex can be and often is 'fun' or 'pleasurable', but why restrict something to purely entertainment value?
One of the reason I get into all this "Magickal" stuff is because I want to find Spirit. I want to utilize Spirit. So, I make everything a Sacrament, including Sex.
It just so happens that Sex, when approached as a Sacrament, can turn the densest of Lead into the purest of Gold through the most powerful Alchemical rite we humans possess. To take something so bestial and a part of our nature and find a spirituality within its practice that none other can match.
What other practice can turn one from complete depression into the greatest of Joy when done properly? What other practice can show the Unity of All so Perfectly? What other Joy do we find greater than that of complete annihilation in Union?
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Original post: durki
I appreciate replies to my last post. Familiarity breeds contempt. So instead of abstaining from sex, we should pass through it so as to outgrow & transcend it.
I appreciate replies to my last post. Familiarity breeds contempt. So instead of abstaining from sex, we should pass through it so as to outgrow & transcend it.
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Original post: Set-Ma'at
[QUOTE=DropAndRiver]I'm sorry, but I've had enough of Divine Love/Peace Happiness. I am stepping off the gravy train.
People need to stop treating lust like a disease. If I see an attractive guy and I want to do more than catch a movie with the man, that doesn't make me sick or perverse, it makes me American. Especially if he paid.
Lust is an instinct like flinching or screaming. You can't cure it, you can't avoid it, and you certainly can't fight it. It is counterproductive to even try, as the instability produced from restricting your lustful expression surpasses the amount of instability possibly caused by lust overwhelmingly. It is just like urinating; it isn't the prettiest thing in the world, but it isn't the ultimate evil, either.
Who cares if a feeling isn't love or 'divine'? What ever happened to just feeling something? There aren't sins, morals, or dirty acts....there is just stuff people do. Some things are nice, some not so nice, but that doesn't make them good or evil..... nothing makes anything anything....everything just is.
Where do people get off [pun...I know lol] thinking that just because someone accepts lust they are miserable or psychotic? Being your everyday manslut or your commonplace modest-wench doesn't make you a bad person or unhappy.... it makes you interesting.
I have yet to hear of people talking about how great there life is now that they have stopped having fun sex [lust is a KEY ingredient in any sexual encounter.... just read an erotic nove/short story to discover that one...] and introduced Little Baby Jesus and Friends and the Divine Light into their bedroom.
Am I the only one that doesn't want to be full of Holy Goodness? I've got all of the afterlife to be sexless, no need to fit it into my living schedule....[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=DropAndRiver]I'm sorry, but I've had enough of Divine Love/Peace Happiness. I am stepping off the gravy train.
People need to stop treating lust like a disease. If I see an attractive guy and I want to do more than catch a movie with the man, that doesn't make me sick or perverse, it makes me American. Especially if he paid.
Lust is an instinct like flinching or screaming. You can't cure it, you can't avoid it, and you certainly can't fight it. It is counterproductive to even try, as the instability produced from restricting your lustful expression surpasses the amount of instability possibly caused by lust overwhelmingly. It is just like urinating; it isn't the prettiest thing in the world, but it isn't the ultimate evil, either.
Who cares if a feeling isn't love or 'divine'? What ever happened to just feeling something? There aren't sins, morals, or dirty acts....there is just stuff people do. Some things are nice, some not so nice, but that doesn't make them good or evil..... nothing makes anything anything....everything just is.
Where do people get off [pun...I know lol] thinking that just because someone accepts lust they are miserable or psychotic? Being your everyday manslut or your commonplace modest-wench doesn't make you a bad person or unhappy.... it makes you interesting.
I have yet to hear of people talking about how great there life is now that they have stopped having fun sex [lust is a KEY ingredient in any sexual encounter.... just read an erotic nove/short story to discover that one...] and introduced Little Baby Jesus and Friends and the Divine Light into their bedroom.
Am I the only one that doesn't want to be full of Holy Goodness? I've got all of the afterlife to be sexless, no need to fit it into my living schedule....[/QUOTE]
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Original post: durki
Not only life of the flesh and life of the spirit are compatible with each other but they are interdependant, symbiotic and integral to each other. If your physical life is sound & healthy, your spiritual life will be so much richer and vice-versa. One of the greatest saints of India, Tuka Ram Maharaj, had his last child posthumously much time after his death but certainly before 9 months.
Not only life of the flesh and life of the spirit are compatible with each other but they are interdependant, symbiotic and integral to each other. If your physical life is sound & healthy, your spiritual life will be so much richer and vice-versa. One of the greatest saints of India, Tuka Ram Maharaj, had his last child posthumously much time after his death but certainly before 9 months.
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Original post: ~ Serenity ~
[QUOTE=durki]I appreciate replies to my last post. Familiarity breeds contempt. So instead of abstaining from sex, we should pass through it so as to outgrow & transcend it.[/QUOTE]
Or put another way - practise makes perfect?
I really hope I get there, in another lifetime or six.
fera
[QUOTE=durki]I appreciate replies to my last post. Familiarity breeds contempt. So instead of abstaining from sex, we should pass through it so as to outgrow & transcend it.[/QUOTE]
Or put another way - practise makes perfect?
I really hope I get there, in another lifetime or six.
fera
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Original post: Chela
Arcanum 24: The Loom of God
Understand Arcanum 24 and you will come to better understand sex.
2 + 4 = 6
(The Indescision between the Virgin and the Harlot)
Arcanum 24: The Loom of God
Understand Arcanum 24 and you will come to better understand sex.
2 + 4 = 6
(The Indescision between the Virgin and the Harlot)
[indent]But it happened that after Jesus had risen from the dead he spent eleven years speaking with his disciples. And he taught them only as far as the places of the first ordinance and as far as the places of the First Mystery, which is within the veil which is within the first ordinance, which is the 24th mystery outside and below, these which are in the second space of the First Mystery, which is before all mysteries the Father in the form of a dove. And Jesus said to his disciples: â??I have come forth from that First Mystery which is the last mystery, namely the 24thâ?Â
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Original post: Sud Ram
It's interesting to point out the Weaving Spider, in some shamanic traditions, is very strongly associated to intimate sexuality as in the fabric of our own self-acceptance, comfort and presence in the world.
Floating orgasmically on a web between trees... The spider awaits patiently the offerings of the wind.
Peace
It's interesting to point out the Weaving Spider, in some shamanic traditions, is very strongly associated to intimate sexuality as in the fabric of our own self-acceptance, comfort and presence in the world.
Floating orgasmically on a web between trees... The spider awaits patiently the offerings of the wind.
Peace
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Original post: durki
Sud Ram quotes Osho Rajneesh. I spent one week with Osho. Osho taught that a person immediately after birth is an auto-sexual. Then he graduates to be a homo-sexual. From the stage of homo-sexuality, a person evolves into a hetero-sexual. And after this, he transcends sex through meditation, tantra / alchemy and other practices.
Sud Ram quotes Osho Rajneesh. I spent one week with Osho. Osho taught that a person immediately after birth is an auto-sexual. Then he graduates to be a homo-sexual. From the stage of homo-sexuality, a person evolves into a hetero-sexual. And after this, he transcends sex through meditation, tantra / alchemy and other practices.
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Original post: Sud Ram
I would be careful in conceptualizing Osho's words. He, as most masters, lies a lot, is very contradictory and in this specific case, is very provocative in sensitive issues (money, sex and religion) in order to break the pre-established ideas of the conceptualistic mind. If there were such a linear approach to sexuality, it would be an easy step to go through for the human race.
One only finds out when one is detached...
Peace
I would be careful in conceptualizing Osho's words. He, as most masters, lies a lot, is very contradictory and in this specific case, is very provocative in sensitive issues (money, sex and religion) in order to break the pre-established ideas of the conceptualistic mind. If there were such a linear approach to sexuality, it would be an easy step to go through for the human race.
One only finds out when one is detached...
Peace
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Original post: durki
It has been a baffling psycho-sexual riddle for me to see some highly placed, intelligent, handsome, knowledgeable, rich & with good family background, spiritually inclined men with loving & faithful wives and having decent children opt for uncouth & ugly boys instead of the young, ravishing & beautiful lasses available at the resorts for their nocturnal erotic pleasures. Are these men misogynists or is there some thing in their make-up which defies human understanding ?
It has been a baffling psycho-sexual riddle for me to see some highly placed, intelligent, handsome, knowledgeable, rich & with good family background, spiritually inclined men with loving & faithful wives and having decent children opt for uncouth & ugly boys instead of the young, ravishing & beautiful lasses available at the resorts for their nocturnal erotic pleasures. Are these men misogynists or is there some thing in their make-up which defies human understanding ?
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Original post: durki
Nothing defies human understanding. Humans are capable of analyzing & undestanding every thing. Problem with these men in question is that they want wild variety & multifariousness and also they shy away from attachments and want to avoid concomitant responsibility for their acts ( if girl becomes pregnant and gives birth to a child then they may have to shoulder the resposibility for the upbringing of the child ).
Nothing defies human understanding. Humans are capable of analyzing & undestanding every thing. Problem with these men in question is that they want wild variety & multifariousness and also they shy away from attachments and want to avoid concomitant responsibility for their acts ( if girl becomes pregnant and gives birth to a child then they may have to shoulder the resposibility for the upbringing of the child ).
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Original post: Daemonpryde
[QUOTE=durki]Nothing defies human understanding. Humans are capable of analyzing & undestanding every thing. Problem with these men in question is that they want wild variety & multifariousness and also they shy away from attachments and want to avoid concomitant responsibility for their acts ( if girl becomes pregnant and gives birth to a child then they may have to shoulder the resposibility for the upbringing of the child ).[/QUOTE]I don't know durki, this sounds like a lot of men (and women) from all walks of society, and in respect of just about anything you might care to mention - not just sexual activity.
In a broader response to your points, however, my position is - it seems to me - diametrically opposed to yours. I accept that there may very well be a spiritual dimension to humans, but the jury is still out for me as to whether this in fact involves the existence of actual "spirit", or whether our spiritual side is actually a manifestation of personality, created by nothing more than bio-chemistry.
But let me put a pin in that one and speak, for now, as if from the premis that we are, indeed, spiritual beings, the essence of which somehow transcends our mere physical shells. However, the fact remains, for me, that we are also corporeal, fleshly beings. Spirit aside, we are still driven by our genetics, just like every other species of animal.
And one of the primary driving forces in humans - from my observations - is carnality. The overwhelming majority of humanity likes to have sex. I for one love to have sex. I revel in it, I do it very often and am - if not always on the lookout for it - always happy to indulge in it.
I may be way off here, but reading your thoughts on the subject has left me with the impression that you would consider my sexual activities to be perverse. I don't think they are and, certainly, there must be legions who would consider my sex life rather vanilla. But that is up to them, and your position - with the greatest amount of respect - is up to you.
I certainly don't feel depraved, denied or stunted in any way - morally, ethically, physically, philosophically or spiritually - by my sexual activity. On the contrary, I find it makes me feel very happy, very content, very fulfilled - it brings me joy. And is not joy perhaps a good form of nourishment for the"spiritual" side of us?
I am quite certain that if I were to abstain from sex, I would be far less content than I am now. I would be denying an intrinsic part of what I am. And, denial - for me - leads to misery and compulsion, bitterness and stagnation. So I shall continue to indulge myself and allow the fullfillment of physical human experience to nourish that other, more contemplative side of me.
[QUOTE=durki]Nothing defies human understanding. Humans are capable of analyzing & undestanding every thing. Problem with these men in question is that they want wild variety & multifariousness and also they shy away from attachments and want to avoid concomitant responsibility for their acts ( if girl becomes pregnant and gives birth to a child then they may have to shoulder the resposibility for the upbringing of the child ).[/QUOTE]I don't know durki, this sounds like a lot of men (and women) from all walks of society, and in respect of just about anything you might care to mention - not just sexual activity.
In a broader response to your points, however, my position is - it seems to me - diametrically opposed to yours. I accept that there may very well be a spiritual dimension to humans, but the jury is still out for me as to whether this in fact involves the existence of actual "spirit", or whether our spiritual side is actually a manifestation of personality, created by nothing more than bio-chemistry.
But let me put a pin in that one and speak, for now, as if from the premis that we are, indeed, spiritual beings, the essence of which somehow transcends our mere physical shells. However, the fact remains, for me, that we are also corporeal, fleshly beings. Spirit aside, we are still driven by our genetics, just like every other species of animal.
And one of the primary driving forces in humans - from my observations - is carnality. The overwhelming majority of humanity likes to have sex. I for one love to have sex. I revel in it, I do it very often and am - if not always on the lookout for it - always happy to indulge in it.
I may be way off here, but reading your thoughts on the subject has left me with the impression that you would consider my sexual activities to be perverse. I don't think they are and, certainly, there must be legions who would consider my sex life rather vanilla
. But that is up to them, and your position - with the greatest amount of respect - is up to you.I certainly don't feel depraved, denied or stunted in any way - morally, ethically, physically, philosophically or spiritually - by my sexual activity. On the contrary, I find it makes me feel very happy, very content, very fulfilled - it brings me joy. And is not joy perhaps a good form of nourishment for the"spiritual" side of us?
I am quite certain that if I were to abstain from sex, I would be far less content than I am now. I would be denying an intrinsic part of what I am. And, denial - for me - leads to misery and compulsion, bitterness and stagnation. So I shall continue to indulge myself and allow the fullfillment of physical human experience to nourish that other, more contemplative side of me.
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Original post: durki
Sex is okay as long as no laws whatsoever from the grossest to the subtlest get broken. Activities such as incest, coveting wives of others, paedophilia et cetera are not in tune with biological & moral laws.
Sex is okay as long as no laws whatsoever from the grossest to the subtlest get broken. Activities such as incest, coveting wives of others, paedophilia et cetera are not in tune with biological & moral laws.
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Original post: Sud Ram
durki, Gods of all traditions and religions indulge in such "deviant" sexual patterns such as incest, paedophilia etc... Surely you can not expect humans to be free from such desires if even the highest forms of consciousness are subject to the same.
We are not in a position to judge anyone's behaviour or activity, however repulsive and unfair it may SEEM to us. I for one don't really feel inclined to actually have sex my sister, but I have thought about it, like most human beings have. It's part of our arquetypal structure.
I'm not going to whip my back for having such thoughts nor am I going to feel guilty, rather, it's my process to go further into this and actually let the whole situation happen in my energy body so as to transcend it. Of course this doesn't imply that physical contact needs to exist, but for some people, these thoughts have been so repressed and caused so much guilt that it needs to be expressed in the physical until thery understand the madness or how ridiculous this attachment/desire was and where it stemed from.
All this to say that I don't believe or agree with morality, for me it's just another mind repressing and guilt creating concept. Dualistic and full of egoistic self-importance in the sense that it makes us believe we have the right to judge another person.
Peace
durki, Gods of all traditions and religions indulge in such "deviant" sexual patterns such as incest, paedophilia etc... Surely you can not expect humans to be free from such desires if even the highest forms of consciousness are subject to the same.
We are not in a position to judge anyone's behaviour or activity, however repulsive and unfair it may SEEM to us. I for one don't really feel inclined to actually have sex my sister, but I have thought about it, like most human beings have. It's part of our arquetypal structure.
I'm not going to whip my back for having such thoughts nor am I going to feel guilty, rather, it's my process to go further into this and actually let the whole situation happen in my energy body so as to transcend it. Of course this doesn't imply that physical contact needs to exist, but for some people, these thoughts have been so repressed and caused so much guilt that it needs to be expressed in the physical until thery understand the madness or how ridiculous this attachment/desire was and where it stemed from.
All this to say that I don't believe or agree with morality, for me it's just another mind repressing and guilt creating concept. Dualistic and full of egoistic self-importance in the sense that it makes us believe we have the right to judge another person.
Peace
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Original post: Daemonpryde
[QUOTE=durki]Sex is okay as long as no laws whatsoever from the grossest to the subtlest get broken. Activities such as incest, coveting wives of others, paedophilia et cetera are not in tune with biological & moral laws.[/QUOTE]Durki, I wouldn't be surprised if you feel like you're being ganged up upon now, he he, but I stand in agreement with Sud Ram's post above.
In terms of the breaking of laws - I guess it boils down to which laws you are actually talking about. For instance, in most societies, rape and paedophilia are unlawful. I wouldn't commit rape or an act of paedophilia myself, not just because it is illegal in my country, but because I consider them wrong acts of themselves (hmm, to be more accurate I suppose, I not only consider these acts to be wrong, but I personally find them repugnant).
Incest is illegal in most societies too, but I am less inclined to the view that it is an unequivocally wrong act. It isn't a black or white issue to me - there are sufficient areas of grey to permit me to conceive of some circumstances in which it could not be said to be wrong.
Like Sud Ram, I feel you are on sticky ground in citing "biological" laws. I would suggest that the entire course of human history, and the manner in which our societies actually function today, demonstrates that our biology is far more powerful than our reason
As for moral laws, I would add that I belong to the school of thought which rejects absolute, moral authority. To me, the test of whether something attracts a "moral" issue or dilemma, is whether there is any demonstrable harm attached to that thing.
A wrong act is a wrong act, regardless of whether a "god" is supposed to have decreed it to be wrong. Similarly, I do not automatically accept that something is right, just because a religion (or one of it's agents or institutions) declares it to be so.
It is a little more complex than that as well - for me - in that, even if there is demonstrable harm attached to an activity, I hold that it is also down to the individual to make a value judgment as to whether that harm is acceptable to them, or whether it is ameliorated or offset by anything positive which may also flow from the activity. And to put a little more context into this - I don't suggest that this value judgment should be made in a vacuum, so to speak, the individual needs must inform that value judgment with thought for the whole gamut of consequences to them and others.
I hope this isn't too crude an example, but an individual may very well hold the personal view that they want to rape someone, they may feel that their own sexual, emotional and ego gratification outweighs the needs of their potential victim. But they must obviously consider (although I accept that many rapists probably do not) the fact that their activity is liable to result in their personal villification and loss of liberty. The would be rapist would also do well, I would contend, to spare a thought for future self - by which I mean, it is a common human experience to realise that what we once wanted we now no longer desire. It's a tall order, but I think there is room for all of us to think on the fact that in our futures, we will have potentially very different desires to those we now possess.
Hmm, ok, I rambled a bit there. I shall leave it up though so that others may tear into it if I'm talking out of my backside
[QUOTE=durki]Sex is okay as long as no laws whatsoever from the grossest to the subtlest get broken. Activities such as incest, coveting wives of others, paedophilia et cetera are not in tune with biological & moral laws.[/QUOTE]Durki, I wouldn't be surprised if you feel like you're being ganged up upon now, he he, but I stand in agreement with Sud Ram's post above.
In terms of the breaking of laws - I guess it boils down to which laws you are actually talking about. For instance, in most societies, rape and paedophilia are unlawful. I wouldn't commit rape or an act of paedophilia myself, not just because it is illegal in my country, but because I consider them wrong acts of themselves (hmm, to be more accurate I suppose, I not only consider these acts to be wrong, but I personally find them repugnant).
Incest is illegal in most societies too, but I am less inclined to the view that it is an unequivocally wrong act. It isn't a black or white issue to me - there are sufficient areas of grey to permit me to conceive of some circumstances in which it could not be said to be wrong.
Like Sud Ram, I feel you are on sticky ground in citing "biological" laws. I would suggest that the entire course of human history, and the manner in which our societies actually function today, demonstrates that our biology is far more powerful than our reason
As for moral laws, I would add that I belong to the school of thought which rejects absolute, moral authority. To me, the test of whether something attracts a "moral" issue or dilemma, is whether there is any demonstrable harm attached to that thing.
A wrong act is a wrong act, regardless of whether a "god" is supposed to have decreed it to be wrong. Similarly, I do not automatically accept that something is right, just because a religion (or one of it's agents or institutions) declares it to be so.
It is a little more complex than that as well - for me - in that, even if there is demonstrable harm attached to an activity, I hold that it is also down to the individual to make a value judgment as to whether that harm is acceptable to them, or whether it is ameliorated or offset by anything positive which may also flow from the activity. And to put a little more context into this - I don't suggest that this value judgment should be made in a vacuum, so to speak, the individual needs must inform that value judgment with thought for the whole gamut of consequences to them and others.
I hope this isn't too crude an example, but an individual may very well hold the personal view that they want to rape someone, they may feel that their own sexual, emotional and ego gratification outweighs the needs of their potential victim. But they must obviously consider (although I accept that many rapists probably do not) the fact that their activity is liable to result in their personal villification and loss of liberty. The would be rapist would also do well, I would contend, to spare a thought for future self - by which I mean, it is a common human experience to realise that what we once wanted we now no longer desire. It's a tall order, but I think there is room for all of us to think on the fact that in our futures, we will have potentially very different desires to those we now possess.
Hmm, ok, I rambled a bit there. I shall leave it up though so that others may tear into it if I'm talking out of my backside
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Original post: Sushumma
And it works the other way (women coveting men of other women) as well. But do what thou wilt.
Durki, I see from your profile that you are pretty young. You can expect your opinions to change a little bit as you get older, and especially if you proceed with your occult studies.
Edit:
In truth biology pays very little regard to the fact whether the other persion is married or not. Avoiding other people's wives makes perfect sense because it's safer that way (jealous husband = potentiar murderer), but biology (the primitive level) just perceives a woman.durki wrote:Sex is okay as long as no laws whatsoever from the grossest to the subtlest get broken. Activities such as incest, coveting wives of others, paedophilia et cetera are not in tune with biological & moral laws.
And it works the other way (women coveting men of other women) as well. But do what thou wilt.
Durki, I see from your profile that you are pretty young. You can expect your opinions to change a little bit as you get older, and especially if you proceed with your occult studies.
Edit:
I can't really say anything about those men in specific (apart from the fact that they might be closet homosexuals), but "attachment" and "responsibility" are among the things you might want to limit, if not abolish entirely (like the monks do), in the path of the Spirit. Marriage and responsibilties are optimal for the "men of the world", because they are all about grasping, ownership and attachment.Problem with these men in question is that they want wild variety & multifariousness and also they shy away from attachments and want to avoid concomitant responsibility for their acts ( if girl becomes pregnant and gives birth to a child then they may have to shoulder the resposibility for the upbringing of the child ).
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Original post: ~ Serenity ~
As a Pagan I feel sexuality is a gift, and even sacred, "all acts of love and pleasure are my rituals" and it isnt for me to judge who enjoys what with whom. Pagans see the world itself as erotic (in the larger sense of the word) and sexuality as one aspect of that eros, Isis Unveiled - and it makes no sense to me to vilify any aspect of sexuality unless its the use of it to harm another.
If you HURT someone through a sexual act youve done wrong, but its not the sex per se thats to- blame its the lack of discretion and sensitivity of the doer.
fera
As a Pagan I feel sexuality is a gift, and even sacred, "all acts of love and pleasure are my rituals" and it isnt for me to judge who enjoys what with whom. Pagans see the world itself as erotic (in the larger sense of the word) and sexuality as one aspect of that eros, Isis Unveiled - and it makes no sense to me to vilify any aspect of sexuality unless its the use of it to harm another.
If you HURT someone through a sexual act youve done wrong, but its not the sex per se thats to- blame its the lack of discretion and sensitivity of the doer.
fera
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Original post: durki
Paedophilia may result in physical harm to the boy. Rape & incest lead to emotional instability & psychological trauma to the victims. Other acts like spanking, sex with animals et cetera may cause biological / physical harms and injuries.
Confessions purge, purify and paralyze evil egoistic tendencies & propensities. I ( who am a male ) was lying nude facing bed in a tired state in an unbolted hotel room some years back in night. Some boys came & pounded into me. I feel relieved after revealing it.
Paedophilia may result in physical harm to the boy. Rape & incest lead to emotional instability & psychological trauma to the victims. Other acts like spanking, sex with animals et cetera may cause biological / physical harms and injuries.
Confessions purge, purify and paralyze evil egoistic tendencies & propensities. I ( who am a male ) was lying nude facing bed in a tired state in an unbolted hotel room some years back in night. Some boys came & pounded into me. I feel relieved after revealing it.
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Original post: Sushumma
[QUOTE=durki]I ( who am a male ) was lying nude facing bed in a tired state in an unbolted hotel room some years back in night. Some boys came & pounded into me. I feel relieved after revealing it.[/QUOTE]
Man, what can I say, that must be quite a handful to deal with. Sexuality is such an irrational force that it can be quite difficult to master and remove the negative "charge" from such experiences.
Dealing with sexual shame and conflicting reactions could be a topic for a different thread even; difficult things like this have very little bearing on "holistic sexuality".
[QUOTE=durki]I ( who am a male ) was lying nude facing bed in a tired state in an unbolted hotel room some years back in night. Some boys came & pounded into me. I feel relieved after revealing it.[/QUOTE]
Man, what can I say, that must be quite a handful to deal with. Sexuality is such an irrational force that it can be quite difficult to master and remove the negative "charge" from such experiences.
Dealing with sexual shame and conflicting reactions could be a topic for a different thread even; difficult things like this have very little bearing on "holistic sexuality".