OccultForum.org

Knowledge is power, knowledge can also limit our natural gifts.

To quote Cercei Baratheon: "Power is power!"

@ reptilian & dodaive

reptilian wrote:

dodaive wrote:In terms, of posters asking for cure-all, instant gratification spells, the occult as I see made up of subtle, complex, but mundane energies in the ethereal and astral planes. These energies are still what I would consider mundane, but not material. But to give an example in the material plane to make it clear, If I want to move a table to place, I need to know what a table is, and all the material structures involved in its movement.

I see the occult the same way, words are only mystical, when they are able to identify and distinguish all these subtle energies.

I'm in agreement. While raw power of energy and belief MAY achieve some results, it's much easier to accomplish all magical goals when the subtle is understood.

Can you go into more detail about subtle work with the etheric and astral?

Hey now! Don't be knocking brute force. LOL There's a lot to be said for it if you can pull it off.

But I do totally agree that subtle and understanding those subtleties opens up a whole new realm of possibilities.

akimbomoss wrote:I agree with Case. But maybe they deserve what they get if they do try something above their heads? [devil]

I would say the problem here, is that for many people they don't actually know that they are over their heads, because their level of education about the occult is quite tiny, and the way it's introduced is quite horrible on many websites. Google "witchcraft spells" and you'll get simple spells to find your lost keys right beside invocation of very powerful things, yet with not an ounce of explanation on what an invocation actually means. A student who doesn't know where to get good information, who gets on the internet and finds the typical websites google will give you, might be forgiven for falling into a trap that seems too common on the internet. The whole concept of occult seems to look like a cuddly, bff replacement on all too many sites.

I agree. Many lack the patience needed for deeper reflection that is essential in any area of occultism or self-development. So many are in such a hurry. It is noble to have read much, but better to have read well and internalized the material. Technology has made too much available to too many too quickly and too easily. The result is that people are able to mass more data, but the data often lacks integration into a greater context. There is only one route to developing an intuitive understanding of context. This is that of contemplation, introspection and meditation with the source. Everybody wants to be a great general, but few are willing to do the grunt work to get there.

step 1: buy a bookcase.
step 2: darn that bookcase is empty better fix that
repeat

step 1: buy a bookcase.
step 2: darn that bookcase is empty better fix that
repeat

I like this sentiment.

A lot of reading and research must be done,that's certainly true. [thumbup]

You can read all the books you want, but without daily practice, you will go no where. Of course a comfortable middle ground is ideal.


"Seek the truth in meditation, not in moldy books. Look to the sky to find the moon, not in the pond"

In my opinion, when you reach the level in your practice where you begin to learn more from your own operations than reading about theory and other's actions you have ceased to be a beginner and are at the intermediate level.

And in my practice, that level came before I started reading.

Solving Ennui wrote:You can read all the books you want, but without daily practice, you will go no where. Of course a comfortable middle ground is ideal.


"Seek the truth in meditation, not in moldy books. Look to the sky to find the moon, not in the pond"

Your quote sucks...

And 'to read' is more than information on a sign while traveling down a road 'especially one you have already decided to travel upon'.

Meditation can plum the depth of that which is 'already known'. Problem is, that is not enough. This is a riddle and a paradox. Think of why we come here in so called 'ignorance', almost blind deaf and dumb? You think it is to be a 'good dog'? There is a very poignant and deceiving term, 'vertical wisdom'. Dogs use it, cows, crows, all so-called 'Mother nature' and with it you can be just as successful.

However, it is not enough to be a wizard. It is possible to plum that which is not yet known even by meditation; welcome to Chaos and hazards thereof. Nice to read about it from 'others' very carefully well. [wink]

Do not be in a hurry 'to practice' anything. Pick one thing and know it so well you cannot tell the dividing line betwixt you and it. Look at it this way, whatever you embrace you 'own' and conversely 'it owns you'. All unfolding is permanent until you 'change' again. And the 'price' is paid every time.

Kind regards,

...Of course a comfortable middle ground is ideal.

It should be noted that Solving Ennui wrote this too,in the same post..

It is possible to become magickally proficient without reading,of course it is,but it is certainly very helpful to be able to study and research the knowledge and wisdom of those who went before you.

The currently most accessible way to do that,for those of us who live in towns and cities/urbanised environments and/or who have internet connectivity available [ outside of magickal conjuration or divination etc.as it bears mentioning too...] is by reaching for the written word. [thumbup]

Even if what we read is sometimes disagreeable to us,it still helps shape our critical thinking and discernment skills. [grin]

Nahemah wrote:

...Of course a comfortable middle ground is ideal.

It should be noted that Solving Ennui wrote this too,in the same post..

It is possible to become magickally proficient without reading,of course it is,but it is certainly very helpful to be able to study and research the knowledge and wisdom of those who went before you.

The currently most accessible way to do that,for those of us who live in towns and cities/urbanised environments and/or who have internet connectivity available [ outside of magickal conjuration or divination etc.as it bears mentioning too...] is by reaching for the written word. [thumbup]

Even if what we read is sometimes disagreeable to us,it still helps shape our critical thinking and discernment skills. [grin]

yep, I thought out what I 'reacted to', 'musty books'.

I live in a similar climate where 90% of the old musty books come from, the isles of ole England. Where there, they have been the beacon for centuries and the mold is rampant in those old buildings housing books.

I have taken 3 weeks blowing industrial strength ozone, sometimes with combs separating out the pages evenly for as long as three weeks to clean each book. Hundreds no doubt over last two decades.

I feel deeply they (England) keep the 'record' of our eventual 'ascension' for lack of a better visual concept and just when this race here collectively 'ascends', then and only then will those sacred records come to be obsolete.

My prejudice and apologies for being so gruff.

Kind regards,

Mavus wrote:

Solving Ennui wrote:You can read all the books you want, but without daily practice, you will go no where. Of course a comfortable middle ground is ideal.


"Seek the truth in meditation, not in moldy books. Look to the sky to find the moon, not in the pond"

Your quote sucks...

And 'to read' is more than information on a sign while traveling down a road 'especially one you have already decided to travel upon'.

Meditation can plum the depth of that which is 'already known'. Problem is, that is not enough. This is a riddle and a paradox. Think of why we come here in so called 'ignorance', almost blind deaf and dumb? You think it is to be a 'good dog'? There is a very poignant and deceiving term, 'vertical wisdom'. Dogs use it, cows, crows, all so-called 'Mother nature' and with it you can be just as successful.

However, it is not enough to be a wizard. It is possible to plum that which is not yet known even by meditation; welcome to Chaos and hazards thereof. Nice to read about it from 'others' very carefully well. [wink]

Do not be in a hurry 'to practice' anything. Pick one thing and know it so well you cannot tell the dividing line betwixt you and it. Look at it this way, whatever you embrace you 'own' and conversely 'it owns you'. All unfolding is permanent until you 'change' again. And the 'price' is paid every time.

Kind regards,

I'm sorry you were unable to understand the quote, allow me to explain it for you. The words of men are only an inadequate representation of the enormity of reality. They represent the reflection of the moon (truth) in the pond (the book), in this metaphor. That which is true does not need to be passed down by another, it can be found by the merit of it's own truth, without faith, or teaching. Or by "looking to the sky instead of the pond". The logic in this quote is not something any reasonable person can argue, some things are just self-evident. Also if you really study grimoires you know their language is entirely metaphorical also (depending on which one of course), like this quote from an ancient suffi.

As to a daily practice, usually people start with practices which are deemed "safe" for beginners, so as to avoid irreparable damage, for example sun salutations and banishing rituals, along with mental and physical training. When you actually practice a ritual daily for months and years your understanding and practice of it becomes better over time in a way reading about it can NEVER give you.

There is no replacement for actual experience, I had already surmised that all magick was a matter of symbol (focus of desire) and energy (gnosis, trance, prana, w/e), long before I ever started to study sigil magick, and my results in fact have not improved from learning the more orthodox practice, but I study it anyways, not wanting to pass up that one gem of knowledge that will actually improve me.

I'm sorry you were unable to understand the quote, allow me to explain it for you. The words of men are only an inadequate representation of the enormity of reality. They represent the reflection of the moon (truth) in the pond (the book), in this metaphor. That which is true does not need to be passed down by another, it can be found by the merit of it's own truth, without faith, or teaching. Or by "looking to the sky instead of the pond". The logic in this quote is not something any reasonable person can argue, some things are just self-evident. Also if you really study grimoires you know their language is entirely metaphorical also (depending on which one of course), like this quote from an ancient suffi.

While having great respect for Sufi, however I would recommend studying the following title... "'QUTUB, also called 'The Point'" by Andrew D. Chumbley.

I have as well gone along the path alone without reading and wrote something of exact same merit, though never publishing lest I be party to unleashing something I was not yet wizard enough to account for once it went out the door. Also without drawing lines, look up and study not only this fine authors work, but his death.

There are also other obscure works that have turned even some greats upside down in the last century + , relative say 5 or 6 centuries past. 'Enormity of reality' can be hidden in those 'words', of course only so many works hit 'depth' that just keeps giving no matter how many times read. There are very poignant reasons for same.

There are as well in these times new stuff in this 'age of earth-plane consciousness' that is even unique and as you say a 'gem'.

No matter, I explained my disdain and remains valid for me.

Reality lies within us and yes it does not much matter which door is used therewith.

'Books are sacred, they broke the Church, they broke the State and now many more Titans shake and tremble...'