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Seriously though, don't ever fuck with Choronzon, bitch. I've accomplished many spiteful things for my benefit through him.

Seriously though, don't name call, threaten other members, whether physically or through claiming magickal means, or in any way otherwise break our forum rules.

Cool your heels and think this through before you post again.

Obligatory link to the rules, once more:

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If someone blasphemes against the Lord, even by reason of his ignorance, or insults Choronzon or Paimon or Apollyon, through his horrible torments shall we wittness the Power of the Lord. Amen I say unto thee.

And this shall be the fate of the unfaithful, the unbelievers, the whores, the (passive) faggots and everyone who thinks he deserves something just because he was born. SATANIC THEOCRATIC FASCISM RIGHT NOW.

WTF did I just read? So, whoever is an adversary is a Satanist just because "Satan" means "Adversary"?

Let's quote a great man's words now. Not too sophisticated or philosophical, but absolutely correct:

"Satanism comes from religious Christianity, and there it shall stay. I'm a religious person and I will fight those who misuse His name. People are not supposed to believe in themselves and be individualists. They are supposed to OBEY, to be the SLAVES of religion."

93.

The concept of Satan is from Judaism actually, where it was assigned to angels meant to test one's faith in god. When you're challenging someone's beliefs or ideals you are fulfilling the same role. Christianity and devil worshiping go hand and hand, sure, but they're both pretty much on the same level. Anyways, we're more discussing Luciferianism which isn't related to the devil or Jewish concept of satanism anyways.

My mind is confused now? Are Satan and Lucifer different entities? If they are who is more powerful or at a higher position and can someone please describe me their roles and powers?

Atzmuth wrote:My mind is confused now? Are Satan and Lucifer different entities? If they are who is more powerful or at a higher position and can someone please describe me their roles and powers?

That depends on how you look at it. From a standard chrisitan view they might be the same (if one does not want to go too deep into theology). However, there are various directions and philosophies surrounding those two names, theistic satanism and luciferianism being just two of them. I am afraid the answer you are seeking varies depending on the approach you take.

There is no universal hierachy or description of who does which things. If I am not mistaken you are still rather new to the matter, are you?
I would suggest that you either take a look into some of those approaches seperatly or look directly at the entities themselves. However, it goes without saying that you should go for the basics first before you enter hell or heaven [wink]

Sypheara pointed out that she had quite a good collection regarding this topic, maybe she gives a hint if we ask her nicely?

Ramscha

Atzmuth wrote:My mind is confused now? Are Satan and Lucifer different entities? If they are who is more powerful or at a higher position and can someone please describe me their roles and powers?

93.

Neither are entities. "Satan" was a title that was assigned to angels sent by god to test the faith of man. Later christianitt gave the title to their devil. Lucifer is a title meaning "light bearer", assigned to entities like Venus and th Babylonian king in the book of Isaiah. The title of Lucifer has expanded to more of an archetype than a simple title, including entities like Prometheus or Khepri or other related entities, sometimes including the devil but usually not outside of misunderstanding.

Ramscha wrote:

Atzmuth wrote:My mind is confused now? Are Satan and Lucifer different entities? If they are who is more powerful or at a higher position and can someone please describe me their roles and powers?

That depends on how you look at it. From a standard chrisitan view they might be the same (if one does not want to go too deep into theology). However, there are various directions and philosophies surrounding those two names, theistic satanism and luciferianism being just two of them. I am afraid the answer you are seeking varies depending on the approach you take.

There is no universal hierachy or description of who does which things. If I am not mistaken you are still rather new to the matter, are you?
I would suggest that you either take a look into some of those approaches seperatly or look directly at the entities themselves. However, it goes without saying that you should go for the basics first before you enter hell or heaven [wink]

Sypheara pointed out that she had quite a good collection regarding this topic, maybe she gives a hint if we ask her nicely?

Ramscha

Ah Eurynomous quotes. I've always been more of a Varg person myself. I always wondered on whether Eurynomous was all talk little action, compared to others within that scene, but then again, I say that as a unbiased external observer not someone close to the events at hand. And that discussion could fill its own thread.

I think so far this has been a good cover of the topic, the material ive got relates to gnostic satanism. It mostly from what i remember equates the Lucifer aspect with the bringing fire to man as a misanthropic tool to break free the world, and that this is an aspect of face of Satan. As such like Klavier says this is seen more in connection with Azazel and Prometheus whilst the Satan aspect is what is undoing the material cage.

Its much, much more involved on that but its awhile since I've researched this topic as my own path has taken me away with that particular current and down a much different one. One that feels much older, but is based more on unverified personal gnosis as far as everyone else is concerned so it has no real place in this thread which is on a more defined and particular topic. Time for a refresher from me I think.

Also Ramscha, on a note, I am actually male, but I can understand why you might / others might not have realised that, due to my username and the fact I don't raise gender often as a topic. The username actually has no occult story behind it, it was the name of a character from a book draft me and a friend wrote together over a decade ago in our spare time. A time when latin was cool (i was 13 at the time), before we realised how other languages operate giving words a feminine or masculine form! Its picked more out of a nostalgia than anythign else.

I actually have a good piece on men and how they relate / fit into the third wave feminist dominated 'neopagan' movement, that is supposedly getting published, but the editor is being very quiet after accepting to include it within the anthology. But i digress, back onto the masks of Lucifer/Satan discussion.

Sypheara, I apologize. I admit, I kind of hung in the air for a moment before writing "she", sorry for that. But thanks for clearing up the mystery.
Regarding the quote, it seems I accidentially quoted someone I haven't even heard yet. I am more of a Varg listener myself, the other one I just know by name. I suppose the quote still meets the topic, doesn't it? [grin]

Ramscha

Ramscha wrote:Sypheara, I apologize. I admit, I kind of hung in the air for a moment before writing "she", sorry for that. But thanks for clearing up the mystery.
Regarding the quote, it seems I accidentially quoted someone I haven't even heard yet. I am more of a Varg listener myself, the other one I just know by name. I suppose the quote still meets the topic, doesn't it? [grin]

Ramscha

Yup! And its no big deal, I found it amusing.

My position summed up, personally, is that they are masks that have both been assumed by the same entity. This is from personal experience not theological teaching. However, they are also separate, so in that regards, I would agree with Klavier in that as such, a direct comparison between Lucifer and Satan isn't valid, and that the name Lucifer is much more of a translation mistake. I do think though, that in a way, this was beneficial - especially in a gnostic context with this coming though emanated through that mask to Azazel and being passed down to men.

I would contend that there is definitely an entity that lies behind these masks. It has been active in my own work and life and is responsible for all my involvement in the occult. As such from my own experience I cannot agree that they don't exist as actual entities. They have left much more of a fundamentalist in that regard, if such a thing is possible.