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I mostly write everything myself. Sometimes I paraphrase, but not often, and the Minniva, I stumbled upon her a while back and liked her, so I kept her around.

I wrote the Latin passages in English first, and then translated, but I found the Google translator would butcher phrases if they were too long and complex, so I learned individual Latin words and reconstructed the passages that way, and then even if it didn't translate entirely correct, which it usually wouldn't, I would still be able to read and understand it.

ohh, sorta leaning into 'quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur' eh?
hehe

I think I prefer it in the english. But I may be biased because I'm much more fluent in english

Kath wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:53 am ohh, sorta leaning into 'quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur' eh?
hehe

Exactly!

Kath wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:16 am

Spida wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 5:23 am Imagine an existence devoid of everything. We are starting at zero here, and something is happening. What is happening?

My "dojo of the mind" is infinite inky abyss, empty of everything except myself, and for many years also my mentor.
I think to astral project into the infinite void, is akin meditating in OBE.

The void is an interesting place of contemplation. You can make yourself tiny, barely a grain of dust. Or fill the space with a plethora of things. And it's interesting to note, that everything you see there, you brought with you. A dark mirror which reflects more than form.

Kath, you seem like a reasonable and intelligent person. What would you say if someone told you that space was an illusion, and that the universe is actually a mental construct fabricated within the mind of a primordial god that arose as time from nothing via some mysterious "acausal" element, ad infinitum, i.e., eternally recurring?

Hopefully it goes without saying that The Source of All has many attributes higher than mental. Thus manifested Existence exists beyond the "mind" of The Source of All

The concept of Pralaya is worth investigating - where Existence ceases and only Beingness remains.

Yes, but since "beingness" involves 'time' it would not be eternally existing, but rather, eternally recurring.

Spida wrote: Tue Feb 08, 2022 6:57 am Yes, but since "beingness" involves 'time'

That is certainly not my experience.

Yeah, from what I have observed from you that is worth reiterating, you are mostly referring to various 'aethyrs' that are superimposed within the macrocosm, and I'm going a bit beyond that here.

Spida wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 4:47 pm you are mostly referring to various 'aethyrs' that are superimposed within the macrocosm

That is not my experience. Have you considered the Hindu account of the five electricities that exist beyond the seven planes?

Spida wrote: Tue Feb 08, 2022 6:02 am Kath, you seem like a reasonable and intelligent person. What would you say if someone told you that space was an illusion, and that the universe is actually a mental construct fabricated within the mind of a primordial god that arose as time from nothing via some mysterious "acausal" element, ad infinitum, i.e., eternally recurring?

I would say that would make all sentiences within said universe tiny fragments of the mind of the primordial intellect dreaming of reality.
And I would take a certain inexplicable delight in the idea of a figment within a dream, itself dreaming dreams.

I'm vaguely reminded of David Lynch "characters" who exist, sentient, within a reality created by the writer. I guess he has a bit of a god complex with his fiction, and imagines it as something a bit more real and alive than most would.

I wouldn't so much call the universe an illusion though. But a fractional layer which is far less substantial than we generally regard it? yeah. But then I have always felt that dreams, thoughts, and feelings have greater tangibility than they are generally regarded as having. I'm probably splitting hairs here though. In that I'm not sure if I'm arguing that it's not illusion, or just pointing out that illusions have real-ness to them.

this topic reminds me of:
From the nothing, empty, without cause,
the dynamic potential of dimension, arises.

From awareness, empty, without cause,
the dynamic potential of consciousness, grows.

From the all, empty, without cause,
the dynamic potential of Essence, appears.

Anyway, such a primordial god would be nothing-ness, and everything-ness, and all the little something-ness's within. I wouldn't call such a god a deity in the way that humans typically regard deities though. It wouldn't have 12 of symbol X, and 7 of attendee Y, and use words to say this and that, and prefer this thing over that thing. It would be everything, and nothing, and prefer everything, and nothing. It's face and scripture would be all of reality and unreality, in all its forms, across layers unfathomed. Supersentience, and nonsentience in one. I think I'd more regard this as sort of the essence of everythingness, nothingness, universal consciousness and unconsciousness, the primordial divinity of creation, rather than "a particular divine being", having a name or label only as metaphor.

How would one relate to such a god, except to become as one with the infinite everything and nothing which it imagines? But these collections of microbes have such limited sense organs and imaginations, that achieving such seems like a fantastical leap. But is it? Certainly the issue of scale is insurmountable for a finite collection of microbes. But need the periphery of self be drawn so finitely? Where EXACTLY do you end? It's easy to imagine that sense organs made of similarly coded microbes define the periphery of self. But when I think thoughts outside the body, those limitations fall away, no?

I part ways with the eastern mystics on the topic of suffering though. I don't see what the big deal is about trying to end it. If there's a carrot and a prod to induce one towards enlightenment, I really don't care at all about the prod. I'm no masochist, but I don't regard pain as particularly bothersome, nor as something without value. But I am enticed by the carrot.
I guess I kinda look at eastern enlightenment paths through, in part, the lens of a viking stoic. It warps it a bit, but also exposes a few dogmatic trappings.


To be a member of a species on the cusp of sentience, when my favorite frequency is the sensation of childlike awe staring with wonder filled eyes at the sensation of discovery. I must be a glutton.

ummm, what was the question again? oh, uh... hmmm.
Out of curiosity, why eternally "recurring" rather than infinitely "omnicurring"?
I guess that's my answer, that the most tenuous part of what you're suggesting is the idea that it is necessarily sequential-linear in nature.
not to say that's wrong, just that my impression is that part of it has the weakest footing.
beingness involves time due to causality, but in an acausal scenario... that becomes speculative, no?

I always struggled with that concept of "the universe is actually a mental construct fabricated within the mind of a primordial god".
While the idea it self seems possible, viable, and even one can find and point to many correlating aspects around as possible proof of that theorem - it all seems not very practical.
Because at the end of the day, it's not like there is some door which unlocks to those who accept that set of believes, and behind which there is garden of Eden, flooded with eternal bliss, a place and state of existence with no pain and suffering etc etc..
Oh wait, scratch that, there is such places, but that's not something I'd like to go back to, nor I'd like go back to the opposite place.
This, so called, fantasy-reality is fine, it's actually quite well balanced, to an extent, self-balancing even, there are far worse "dreams" to end up getting stuck in..

But most importantly, hypothetically speaking, if I been stuck here, or around here (all those other dimensions, planes, realities. The real ones, semi-real, quasi-real, and the phantom ones - all is still part of same HERE) for the last 10'000 years, and I have plans, and the others have plans for me to continue being stuck here for another 10'000 years, at least - escape from this reality-fantasy is clearly not on the schedule. So there's very little to gain pondering about what's the true nature of the entire existence, is the kernel of "Universe OS" compiled from C code or ASM.. I'm just a program running on it, it matter not to me if it all gonna reboot tomorrow or a million years from now, I'm still gonna have to run whatever is compiled for me, or whatever I'm compiled to run as.
Going against the code only produce memory leaks, or worse..
If some spirit end up getting stuck in your mind-space, they too would have to play by the rules of the house, so to speak, would have fight for survival by the local "laws of nature", at least until you kick them out, or they find a way out, but there's never guarantee "out" is certainly better. Many spirits can't bare our company for more than a day, but at the same time there are many spirits which know "worse" and feel quite comfortable in our rather mediocre minds. So perhaps, in some way, it might be similar in our greater reality, those who experienced worse - feel fine with it and in it, those who haven't experience worse - tend to be dreaming of some better dream. But neither one have much say where they gonna end up the next day.

Cerber wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 5:42 am So there's very little to gain pondering about what's the true nature of the entire existence, is the kernel of "Universe OS" compiled from C code or ASM.. I'm just a program running on it, it matter not to me if it all gonna reboot tomorrow or a million years from now, I'm still gonna have to run whatever is compiled for me,

Unless Existence itself is alive - in which case we might be specialized cells within the Beingness before Existence occurs.

If so, we had better be about our father's business.

Kath wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 1:04 pm I would say that would make all sentiences within said universe tiny fragments of the mind of the primordial intellect dreaming of reality.

You've written a lot that I would expand upon or elaborate on, just not all at once, so I'll start at the beginning and see where it goes, and that would be with the above quote.

There are a few facets of the theory that are difficult to swallow, and I've recently thought about this a bit more. There are also other aspects that share similarities with this, and they all serve in contributing validity to one another in the end.

The 'dream analogy' is one theory that attempts to resolve the macrocosmic primordial(consciousness) by analogy and extrapolation of its' microcosmic counterparts, and it's a good fit for the Hermetic axioms : As above so below(two-dimensional), and : As within so without(three-dimensional).

It fits with theories of an initial zero point, or zero-dimension parameter. Emergence from negative existence, or 'nothing', and the question then becomes : What is it exactly that is emerging? And the answer is 'primordial consciousness', so then an attempt is made in comprehending and understanding this particular aspect, maybe just label it and come back to it another time.

I don't want to spoil too much here, but ultimately with these primordial algorithms you are going to end up with ineffables as parameters much of the time, but we try to rationalize it as much as we can.

Kath wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 1:04 pm I wouldn't so much call the universe an illusion though. But a fractional layer which is far less substantial than we generally regard it? yeah. But then I have always felt that dreams, thoughts, and feelings have greater tangibility than they are generally regarded as having.

Maybe "illusion" for lack of a better term, or, not having an existence that is identical to how it is perceived, e.g., how color is a result of internal processing and not existing externally.

Continuing with the dream analogy, it can be observed how the subconscious creates these spatiotemporal constructs, these dreamscapes, but like you said, these are just "tiny fragments" of the primordial consciousness, and it will always come back to all aspects of the primordial being of 'infinite quality', e.g., omni-everything.

I suppose Einstein, for one, was a contributing factor in the use of the "illusion" terminology where he says that "Reality is an illusion, albeit a persistent one.", and then I used to joke about how it may not be as persistent as he once thought if some of those "Mandela effects" are legit, and it appears as though some are, but like the occult about ninety-nine percent is "bullshit".

Kath wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 1:04 pm Out of curiosity, why eternally "recurring" rather than infinitely "omnicurring"?

The main reasons for the "eternally recurring" as opposed to alternative scenarios is to adhere the laws of parsimony and avoid "infinite regression". Time must have beginning and ending parameters, so the "recurring" is akin to a 'resetting' back to zero, ad infinitum, as a perpetual 'starting point', as opposed to an infinitely regressive stream that never began, so here, there needs to be a distinction made between these finite linear segments (or universes), and eternity itself, which encapsulates these.

In the Hindu tradition, Existence appears and disappears, but the Source of All remains.

In my experience Beingness is, and Existence sometimes appears. When Existence ceases the situation is called Mahapralaya

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pralaya

Somewhere on these forums I've mentioned my broadcasting problem I noticed some time ago: thinking of things affects people in videos. I thought I got it under control but now I'm not so sure. Just a few minutes ago I was watching some guy on a new Youtube video and everytime I thought in my mind "aloud" with words (which is what I always do all the time), the guy looked distracted and often edited something out of the video. Do you think it's possible to broadcast messages without knowing? I mean Amor probably is familiar with these kinds of effects. What's your opinion on this? Is it possible that I'm somehow accidentally sending telepathic messages to others without knowing about it? I.e. broadcasting my thoughts (mental voices) and thus harrassing others without realising it? My synchronizities seemed to give lots of clear indications that this is the case. I hope not. Because I don't do telepathy as far as I know. I can imagine how irritating it could be if I was trying to make a youtube video and some random foreign language voice was randomly babbling in my head frequently.

Or another entity is playing with your thoughts

No doubt entities are playing with my thoughts. That's my regular day. But the effects I'm describing seem to be separate from those mind tricks.

To be sure about this, I'll start testing intentionally on Youtube what happens when I don't care nor avoid the effects I described above. Then I'll see if the people start getting visibly annoyed Basically take X amount of youtubers (large enough set of test subjects) and do the test in a similar way to all of them. Then I'll write down how many seemed distracted and/or annoyed by the end of the video.

The above doesn't take into account that some Youtubers might be more prone to be affected by the effects. So it might also make sense to choose a youtuber I've noticed the effects happening with, check quickly some of his/her other videos if they just natuarlly look annoyed. If not, then I choose several other videos from the same person and repeat the test on all of those videos and write down the results. That should keep it more scientific and leaves less opportunity for imagination.

Amor wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 8:12 am

Cerber wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 5:42 am So there's very little to gain pondering about what's the true nature of the entire existence, is the kernel of "Universe OS" compiled from C code or ASM.. I'm just a program running on it, it matter not to me if it all gonna reboot tomorrow or a million years from now, I'm still gonna have to run whatever is compiled for me,

Unless Existence itself is alive - in which case we might be specialized cells within the Beingness before Existence occurs.

If so, we had better be about our father's business.

If/when any of our cells stop being about our business, their existence get terminated, by other cells, at least 99.99% of the time. Maybe it's more or less the same.

A side note:

I've mentioned "a psychic flood" several times on these forums. It's something that hits The-37 mage group members at some point. It might also affect regular people too. Not sure. But I think I figured out what it is:

The idea is likely that people's minds suddenly get connected to a huge number of other people, which totally incapacitates them. I'm talking about 50 000 000 active links between people, all suddenly connected to each other without any restrictions at all. That's more than likely to destroy any mind permanently.

As far as I can tell, almost all of The-37 are ignorant of this upcoming flood but not all of them. Only very few of their higher level people know about this. Some hand picked "prefekta" + some other random higher ups are in the know. Everyone else gets wiped out. I believe those in the know were somehow hand picked to know about it so they know how to protect themselves from the flood. This ensures that only very few hand picked ones get to start building their operation and organization from scratch once the flood has done its job.

OR alternatively all of The-37 are aware of this but only few selected hand picked ones have been informed how to not get hit by that flood and thus they are the ones picking up the organization after the flood is done. Not sure which one is the case here.

I feel like I might be going a bit into the guessing area here, but for some reason there might even be a date for that event: year 2025, 5th month, 2nd day.

Spida wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 6:57 pm It fits with theories of an initial zero point, or zero-dimension parameter. Emergence from negative existence, or 'nothing', and the question then becomes : What is it exactly that is emerging? And the answer is 'primordial consciousness', so then an attempt is made in comprehending and understanding this particular aspect, maybe just label it and come back to it another time.

I don't want to spoil too much here, but ultimately with these primordial algorithms you are going to end up with ineffables as parameters much of the time, but we try to rationalize it as much as we can.

I've been fascinated also by the idea of a holographic universe. What's interesting about that, is that every part of a hologram, if subdivided, contains the blueprint of the greater whole. To me this seems an elegant solution to the relationship between consciousness and universe. While at the same time addressing ideas like "as within, so without", or enlightenment concepts which deal with the idea of attaining a conscious oneness with the universe.

Which isn't to say that I'm completely sold of the physics of the holographic universe theory scientifically. I'm undecided in that regard. But it's a useful thought process for examining things.


Ineffables... yeah.
The most exciting thing, is to explore out past where feet have fallen before. But it doesn't make for very relatable stories to tell.

Spida wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 6:33 pm Maybe "illusion" for lack of a better term, or, not having an existence that is identical to how it is perceived, e.g., how color is a result of internal processing and not existing externally.

Continuing with the dream analogy, it can be observed how the subconscious creates these spatiotemporal constructs, these dreamscapes, but like you said, these are just "tiny fragments" of the primordial consciousness, and it will always come back to all aspects of the primordial being of 'infinite quality', e.g., omni-everything.

I suppose Einstein, for one, was a contributing factor in the use of the "illusion" terminology where he says that "Reality is an illusion, albeit a persistent one.", and then I used to joke about how it may not be as persistent as he once thought if some of those "Mandela effects" are legit, and it appears as though some are, but like the occult about ninety-nine percent is "bullshit".

The issue of "color" is one I like to use as a poster child for the necessity of exploring paradigm shift in excruciating detail.
One can shrug off ego and step outside themselves, to view things without the trappings of personal investment. But doing ONLY that, leaves one still right next to where they started. Ego is but one of many parameters of consciousness which warp reality. I think perhaps the trickiest thing is not actually ego, but cultural, and even species based paradigm lenses. Which the concept of color illustrates fairly well. That modeling of reality within preconceived contexts.

I've noticed a number of mandella effects which make me wonder at the stability of consensual reality. Actually some magic, as well as visions, also suggest it's a bit less concrete than it's generally thought of to be.

Spida wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:05 pm

Kath wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 1:04 pm Out of curiosity, why eternally "recurring" rather than infinitely "omnicurring"?

The main reasons for the "eternally recurring" as opposed to alternative scenarios is to adhere the laws of parsimony and avoid "infinite regression". Time must have beginning and ending parameters, so the "recurring" is akin to a 'resetting' back to zero, ad infinitum, as a perpetual 'starting point', as opposed to an infinitely regressive stream that never began, so here, there needs to be a distinction made between these finite linear segments (or universes), and eternity itself, which encapsulates these.

so a big bang which eventually contracts & resets. or something in that vein.

I guess what I was more getting at though, was more along the lines of Time as a record, with our conception of it being the needle. ie: "yesterday and tomorrow are still happening"
But a bit more complex than that, where there is actually kind of a multidimensional crystaline matrix of infinite records, like a potentiality (not a typo, carefully chosen word) field in greater than 3D, where our experience of time is a single point moving in a single direction (perhaps "1.5 D" would describe it).

Cerber wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 2:13 am If/when any of our cells stop being about our business, their existence get terminated, by other cells, at least 99.99% of the time. Maybe it's more or less the same.

"sometimes true"

There's a lot of unneeded stuff which is kept around simply because it isn't getting in the way overtly.
I mean a very large proportion of the human genome is nonfunctional junk genes which aren't relevant to our species. There are more microbes in your body than there are cells with your DNA in them. Wisdom teeth don't fall out on their own. Etc.

It's only when going off the reservation creates an existential threat to the larger system, that evolutionary pressure emerges to formulate a reaction to get rid of the aberration. This is why cancer so often does not self-heal, because it's rather difficult for our microbiology to identify it as being a threat to the larger system.

All of which is to say, that breaking ranks with the programmed parameters of our existence, is not in and of itself something which invites an immune response from the universe. So long as it's not done in a detrimental manner.