Varg Vikernes and Paganism

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: DamnElephant

I read that he got the word burzum from the black speech. i mean, fantasy is great, but basing his personal spiritual outlet on a fictional language doesnt say much about his grasp on reality.

heh, cold indeed, im sure his prison cell doesnt help matters there

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: frater luciferi

burzum is really over-rated much the same as marilyn manson. I admit i enjoy his music a bit, but don't find him near as talented as the other first gen black metallers- emperor, dark throne? the genre is ..well hell a lot of metal involves fantasy-look at viking metal? the count as he calls himself odviously was trying to boost himself with the music, or compensate ?

There is a huge principle of "culture" in black metal that was tremendously nihilistic and odviously motivated at the time of "mayhem" and the like. They believed what they believed, implanted that propoganda and some was infuse with NS doctrine-the revisionist of tradional "blood" culture. it would be hard to say if Burzum could stand on its own two feet without the prop of image and hype however? one would wonder then why charles manson does'nt sell any records?

I own charles mansons album "lies" as well. I listen to it, understand it and from hearing it i get a little piece of what manson was that does'nt transcribe well in print and interviews- but manson is a fringe icon- a OTO drop out and a felon.

The paralels are quite similar. If manson did'nt have the hype of his murders? He would of ended up a sidenote as a bum who wrote a few songs for the beach boys.

Burzum and "the count" get their "infamy" points on sheer literal anarchy alone, blood spilt, churches burnt. I dont agree with it, but the action however magickal or not got him what he wanted. How would i judge it? how bout i start killing people and burning churches in the name of some brainwashed psuedo-nazi revisionism?

i give the same props to early crust punk bands who stood by their principles and lived that anarcho-punk gospel. watever though that was really succeeded in any of the forementioned individuals actions is hard to substantiate? we have a genre in black metal that was forged-and commodified. much the same as punk?

but seriously though varg sounds like a whiney chick in a lot of his songs- listen to "lord of the depths" or hell the whole self titled "burzum" album. had he put out a less "infamous" album i think it would of tanked. not like CRASS had much talent either but their message was strong enough, and who'd the fuck argue with someone who enjoys grating our ears?
hopefully i've made some sense, im pretty stoned right now. \m/

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Sushumma

[QUOTE=frater luciferi;261942]but seriously though varg sounds like a whiney chick in a lot of his songs- listen to "lord of the depths" or hell the whole self titled "burzum" album.[/quote]
Whee, I think the vocals in Burzum musick absolutely rock.

Just listen to Det Som En Gang Var (the song):

Vi doede, ikke... vi haaa aldriiii

leeeeeeeevdd

raaaaaaagh, aaaaaaaaargh

<3

Burzum is the best thing ever to come from Norway, and among the few metal bands (black or not) that I still listen to occasionally.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Al Rischa

Personaly Slayer kick the ass of Burzum.

Al.

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Original post: messiah of sin

i agree brother, slayer's music is hella better then burzum's

but marilyn manson is not fucking overrated, he has ideas he has a message his music is original and creative theres nothing overrated about him

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: doh

Though it's been an interesting conversation, I need to put the mod hat on (going to Slayer/Marilyn Manson concert on July 23rd so suck on that peeps - best of both worlds :p ).

Can someone please explain to me why this is in Paganism? It really has turned into, and has been for sometime, a discussion about music with little relevance to Paganism other than in passing.

You all have five more posts to turn this around to Varg Vikernes (or any of the artists mentioned) and his/hers/theirs/its relation to paganism, or this puppy gets moved to OTG.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: frater luciferi

Whee, I think the vocals in Burzum musick absolutely rock.

Just listen to Det Som En Gang Var (the song):

Vi doede, ikke... vi haaa aldriiii

leeeeeeeevdd

raaaaaaagh, aaaaaaaaargh

<3

Burzum is the best thing ever to come from Norway, and among the few metal bands (black or not) that I still listen to occasionally.

I love Burzum too, but i am in no way "reverant". now neurosis on the other hand.....

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Sheosyrath

I like Burzum, but from what I've just learned about Varg, I would say he's probably a little off his horse. Of course, there is the fact that I don't really like paganism to begin with, this guy has some fucked up ideas on what Paganism is. Perhaps he can write well, but I would be willing to guess the content is not worth reading. Now, talking in general about Black Metal and the Occult, I would point to MY favorite band, which it is a wonder to me why they have not been mentioned.. Dimmu Borgir. I just recently saw them here in concert and was very pleasantly surprised to find some serious occult sigilization going on. The sigillum dei was the back piece of the new In Sorte Diaboli t-shirt and I saw some Enochian somewhere and a couple other things. I love the album cover as well. Forget Burzum and Varg, I wonder what Shagrath is invoking. :p



Oh one last thing. Racism isn't good in any practice.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: frater luciferi

I like Burzum, but from what I've just learned about Varg, I would say he's probably a little off his horse. Of course, there is the fact that I don't really like paganism to begin with, this guy has some fucked up ideas on what Paganism is. Perhaps he can write well, but I would be willing to guess the content is not worth reading. Now, talking in general about Black Metal and the Occult, I would point to MY favorite band, which it is a wonder to me why they have not been mentioned.. Dimmu Borgir. I just recently saw them here in concert and was very pleasantly surprised to find some serious occult sigilization going on. The sigillum dei was the back piece of the new In Sorte Diaboli t-shirt and I saw some Enochian somewhere and a couple other things. I love the album cover as well. Forget Burzum and Varg, I wonder what Shagrath is invoking. :p



Oh one last thing. Racism isn't good in any practice.

so the new dimmu album is good? I loved death cult armagedon.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Sushumma

[QUOTE=Sheosyrath;262082]Dimmu Borgir. I just recently saw them here in concert and was very pleasantly surprised to find some serious occult sigilization going on. The sigillum dei was the back piece of the new In Sorte Diaboli t-shirt and I saw some Enochian somewhere and a couple other things.[/quote]

It's not hard to flirt with this stuff, another thing is to really work with it. Look into Dissections stuff for "serious" satanic business. Around the 3:24 mark there is a nice "prayer" to Kali as well :-)

(lyrics here )

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Sheosyrath

Well, for one, Dimmu Borgir has always been very meticulously detailed. Their music is beautiful and even the symphonic orchestra they use is directed by the band members. Through their music and what I've previously seen they don't seem like the type to use it without knowing damn well what it is. Perhaps they don't invoke anything in their songs, but I would like to think at least some of the members have a genuine interest in the occult.

(It doesn't look like this thread is going to go back on subject...I feel back for further nudging it off topic again.)

Anyways, Luciferi, "In Sorte Diaboli" is a beautiful album. Well worth buying.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: DamnElephant

[QUOTE=Sheosyrath;262096]

Anyways, Luciferi, "In Sorte Diaboli" is a beautiful album. Well worth buying.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely.

[QUOTE=Sushumma;262093]Look into Dissections stuff for "serious" satanic business. Around the 3:24 mark there is a nice "prayer" to Kali as well :-)
[/QUOTE]

Also, agreed.



.....thats all i have to add.

so much for varg and his paganism.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Venefica

As for his other purported views, meh, it's cold in Norway.

Not right now, now it is sweltering hot. :O

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Original post: frater luciferi

It's not hard to flirt with this stuff, another thing is to really work with it. Look into Dissections stuff for "serious" satanic business. Around the 3:24 mark there is a nice "prayer" to Kali as well :-)

(lyrics here )

i have dissections new album- not entirely as good as their older material, but its definately got a lot of actual satanic symbolism in it. It has a wonderful song about the black dragon of chaos or something of the sort. Either way musically it might not be at the same level as their older material, but the lyrics are quite wonderful -

heres one from their song black dragon

ail Lucifer!
Dark bringer of light
Hail Lucifer!
Giver of eternal sight Wisdom bringer - We call upon thy name
Bestow upon us thy infernal blessings
of the inner divine flame
Open our eyes Mighty Father
so that we may see
Guide our steps on the Burning Path
of liberation and ecstasy
Titanic Prometheus - God of forbidden light
Your Black Flame we bear inside as a legacy of your might
Illumination's father - God of shadowless light
Black Sun of dark mysteries - Restore the dragon's sight
Mighty god of darkness
All salutations to thee
Your gift of knowledge and rebellion
will set our spirits free
Lylusay Tateros Volt Sids Lucifer!
Lylusay Tateros Volt Sids Lucifer!
Open our eyes Mighty Father
so that we may see
Guide our steps on the Burning Path
of liberation and ecstasy
Mighty god of darkness
All salutations to thee
Raise the hidden flames within us
Into Chaos set us free

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: DamnElephant

thats actually God of Forbidden Light, my favorite song from that album.

great song.

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Original post: deviadah

Is this the same guy known as Greven (The Count)?

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Per

[QUOTE=frater luciferi;261942]burzum is really over-rated much the same as marilyn manson. I admit i enjoy his music a bit, but don't find him near as talented as the other first gen black metallers- emperor, dark throne? the genre is ..well hell a lot of metal involves fantasy-look at viking metal? the count as he calls himself odviously was trying to boost himself with the music, or compensate ?[/QUOTE]

Most of Varg's work in Burzum isn't black metal, or true to the genre of black metal. Varg actually states that he hates the metal genre, and instead offers an ambient alternative. In his newer albums especially, Varg has completely separated his music from that of "true Norwegian black metal" and instead formed his own genre.

In addition to that, I believe that Emperor, Darkthrone, Gorgoroth, etc. are all second wave black metal. The first generation of black metal to me seems like Venom, Bathory, Meryful Fate (King Diamond) and other NWBHM-style bands. Though, I consider Bathory to be the first REAL black metal band. If you're into black metal music, I suggest you check out Nordvrede and Taake, you'll probably like them.

Dissection's newest release was just as great to me as the earlier releases, God of Forbidden Light became an instant favorite, but Where Dead Angels Lie still has my vote for "Best Dissection song"

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Azerate218

I give Varg points for torching churches, and his music is decent, but the guy is a dumbass, and gives Pagans a bad name (mostly with his racist/homophobic rants).

Jon Nodtveidt (from Dissection) is the man I idolize. Sure, he did murder a man, but he was a genius, and one of the higher-ups in the MLO. It's a shame that he killed himself. Dissection is what got me into Satanism.

As for Dimmu Borgir, their music is great, but they're just using Satanism for shock value. They're pretty much a bunch of Norwegian Marilyn Mansons.

Also, another person that I greatly respect is Christopher Johansson (frontman of Therion and one of the founding members of the Dragon Rouge). Although I disagree with much of what the Dragon Rouge teaches, I agree with a good portion of their stuff, and I admire their devotion to the dark arts. Christopher Johansson is a very intelligent man, and an adept occultist.

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Original post: hendo555666

[QUOTE=Azerate218;296447]I give Varg points for torching churches, and his music is decent, but the guy is a dumbass, and gives Pagans a bad name.[/QUOTE]

He can call himself a pagan if he wants, but he's not, what is Pagan?Its an accumulation of various beleifes adopted by the country dwellers(paganus)(i.e the general populus outside anyform of priesthood)from various cultures. Paganisms ethos is about open mindedness in terms of all religious belife, not closed mindedness and bigotedness towards others belifes. Varg is, as you stated, a complete idiot who throws terms like pagan around to get a name for himself, where in reality all he is, is an attention seeker.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Odin

My opinion on Varg is that he is a very clever man but some of his views are just unfair, like racism. Although I'm not too bothered because I'm guarenteed entry to Asgard with my blonde hair and blue eyes! :p
There is no firm definition of what a pagan is so it's hard to say wether Varg is pagan or not, but I would say that he is. He is not a judeo-christian and he is greatly inspired by norse mythology. Although I disagree with most of his views they are fascinating to read anyway. On the subject of church burnings, the churches burnt had been built over the remains of sacred pagan places (apparently) which softens the blow a bit for me. But burning churches is just ignorant and weak in my opinion, especially as a firefighter died putting out the flames.
On the music of Burzum: brilliant! It's magical and unique and full of feeling. Watch the video for Dunkelheit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aqSU3wMzng

If you're open minded and patient you're in for a treat.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: frater luciferi

yeah yeah.,..everyone should know that varg was not exactly in the closet about being into natiional socialist, you can go check out his official forums to check that out.. i still really enjoy his protopagan take on things though I guess. burzum is not on my top list of musick i listen to i do occaionally like to throw it on..

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Per

I do enjoy the music ov Varg Vikernes (Dunkelheit is actually my favorite Burzum song!) but as a man, I am slowly starting to lose respect for him. I'm sure you're all aware that he killed Euronymous, but it was not in "self-defense" since he basically admits to chasing Euronymous down the hall and down some stairs (stabbing more 25 times while he chased him)

He claims that he did it because Euronymous was an attention seeker. A camera whore who was obsessed with being the most evil person in the black metal scene. When he killed him, he got infamy, but he became what he hated. A camera whore. In interviews about the church burnings he stated that he used words like "us" and "we" to make it seem like there was more mystery to it than there actually was. Some people don't bother to understand what Euronymous did for black metal music in the short time he was around, and discredit him calling him a pussy, etc. But without him, Mayhem would not exist today, and in-turn, I think extreme black metal music would not exist.

I might have screwed something up, I am pretty sleepy.

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Original post: gloweringibeholdmineabyss

reading through his writtings, it seems he repeatedly dead ends in racism and anti-homosexuality, as if its some kind of really big period at the end of every sentence to make the same point over and over.... what must life be like in prison?

whos to say what happened in the murder case etc, but seems an amalgamation of alot of info, and stories- although i can definitely agree on the point he makes about the police forcing their story on the various witnesses called, as well as toward the media.
the whole thing has just become some soapy culture gossip story like "days of our lives"

he thinks the "black metal" that 'was true' died out in 93'.... probably hates most of his fans, and almost anyone who wasnt born out of a pile of snow somewhere in scandanavia...lol
(to whom said he should wait till his next life for blond hair...ROFL- Classic!)

he also makes lots of refference to Neitszche's works, which I read in the preface to "will to power" had been absorbed into the nazi movement after his death-being published by his 'sister' who claimed him to be a proto-nazi... and reorganized his writtings making it more ambiguous and contradictory....

either way, reguardless of his views, and actions--
I have to respect the artistic quality of his creations.
and hope to enjoy and appreciate as many as possible within the
death metal, black metal, viking, doom, thrash etc. genres.....

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: endor957

I do enjoy the music ov Varg Vikernes (Dunkelheit is actually my favorite Burzum song!) but as a man, I am slowly starting to lose respect for him. I'm sure you're all aware that he killed Euronymous, but it was not in "self-defense" since he basically admits to chasing Euronymous down the hall and down some stairs (stabbing more 25 times while he chased him)

He claims that he did it because Euronymous was an attention seeker. A camera whore who was obsessed with being the most evil person in the black metal scene. When he killed him, he got infamy, but he became what he hated. A camera whore. In interviews about the church burnings he stated that he used words like "us" and "we" to make it seem like there was more mystery to it than there actually was. Some people don't bother to understand what Euronymous did for black metal music in the short time he was around, and discredit him calling him a pussy, etc. But without him, Mayhem would not exist today, and in-turn, I think extreme black metal music would not exist.

I might have screwed something up, I am pretty sleepy.

I hate to put this tid bit in but I've written to Euronymous a couple of times and the impressions that I'd gotten from the guy was that he was just an extreme satanist type dude who only wanted to get his Mayhem project off the ground without anymore unforseen setbacks. He wasn't pissed but he wasn't happy with singer killing himself and this was right before Attila was added for vocals and his DSP label was about to be actualized. He was just an old school guy who wanted some of his work to pay off.
But this (again) was the period before the black circle and the mass amounts of attention. I remember that he was into Sigh and he was happy that he was most pleased with his Label which he felt would have given him more power to release what he wanted but most of all, he was starting to feel alive again (if you will) by the new mayhem material that would later be known as the stuff on Dom Mysteriis...
Years, and years later I like many of you have read the interviews and read that book by Moynihan on the accounts and from what I gather Varg had intended on killing Euronymous which he himself had said a couple of times, giving the details. The why and what really happened, none will know. All I know is DeathCrush is a classic for that type of music and Dom capped it off.
As for Varg and co., it seems that there's this overwhelming attitude that this form of extreme music belongs to Arayans but that's not true. As far as I know, in the 80's, it was just about being into extreme, hard to find music and anybody from anywhere who had a very strong interest in it was welcomed and that's how it should remain.

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Original post: frater luciferi

i dont know about black metal, but quite a few of the best death metal bands are half black-- suffocation being the best that ever was in my opinion. Im 90 percent german by blood and visigoth by tribe....(was very bored and traced my heritage)...and find the whole nazi fallback by pagan revisionist to be a tad trite, the irony of its wake is that it seemed to demonize a very universal pagan symbol and as such forced it into the underground...though i guess that a lot of buddhists and hindus in the east refuse to not use the symbol as it is a very vital part of their faith... my avatar is a germanic version of it..

back on topic... i think varg did it for the attention, had he not been involved in the church burnings or the homicides? the shock factor is always a quick/fast way to spread word of ones persona/image.. and lets face it it got the originators of the black metal scene wat they wanted. he's getting out of prison in two years from now.. and im sure he is going to make a forture playing shows to those second and third wave fourth wave? black metal fans who are listening to the mainstream waves of the original birthing/fashioning of the style.

of course every fad/trend starts out underground and dangerous ., on the fringe..and then if it grows it becomes mainstream and eventually you know the trend is a consumerist trend when you start seeing 15 year old suburbanite kids at the mall wearing t-shirts of bands that are watered down and hundred times more slick and produced image wize and marketing wise.