OccultForum.org

Original post: Hans2

Most Satanists seem to equate notions of "brotherhood" (in the Christian sense of the word) with weakness. Most Satanists likewise focus (naturally) on themselves, their needs, goals, etc., but to what extent is this practical in a social setting? How do these things mesh with notions of civility in society? Is civility rooted only in spiritual concepts which Satanists eschew, or did it exist before these were developed? Is one untrue to Satanic ideals if he or she gives up a seat on a bus to a handicapped, pregnant or elderly person? Is it "non-Satanic" to be pleasant to people and to not believe that every kind human act is based on an ulterior motive? Is it against Satanic principles, for example, to risk one's life to save another?

I ask these questions because many Satanists seem to believe that self-deification (however perceived) goes hand in hand with being rude or uncivil, or acting whenever possible in ways that go against the "norm" in order to prove a point. This seems (to me at least) to go against our own best self interests in the long run. Am I trully empowered because I give "society" the finger, or is empowerment and self deification geared to things of substance that are more subtle in nature?

Original post: Lord Liber

What-ho there Hans, and thank you for posing such an intelligent and exquisitely-worded question. How very charming and magnanimous of you.

It is a sign of a superior being, in my experience of mixing amongst many of the world's greatest artists and businesspeople all over the world, that the very powerful, the very personally "together", the very intelligent, and the transcendentally gifted, (in other words, those who represent the presumed Satanic ideal) find friction to be entirely counter-productive to their ends, and are with very few exceptions, radiant with bonhomie, panache, and joie-de-vivre.

Mediocrities try to hide their failure with misanthropy.

Friends are far more dangerous than enemies. Therefore, to be as dangerous as possible, have as many friends as possible.

Have a smashing day!

witness mine hand
L.'.L.'.

Original post: Sushumma

[QUOTE=Hans2;261205]This seems (to me at least) to go against our own best self interests in the long run. Am I trully empowered because I give "society" the finger, or is empowerment and self deification geared to things of substance that are more subtle in nature?[/QUOTE]

Choose your battles.

[QUOTE=LL]Mediocrities try to hide their failure with misanthropy.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you on "failure", and disagree on "mediocrity". Misanthropy is ressentiment, but rather than mediocrity (which is a terminal state you are stuck with), misanthropy can lead to something productive if you work on it and also remember to despise & target the weakness in yourself...

And, success should not be the satanic ideal / target in itself, it should just be the *proof*.

Original post: Venefica

I don't care much about what society think of me. But I do try to keep polite. It gets me liked, it gets me benefit and I don't feel like any less of a LHP follower even if I say thank you ma'am, how do you do and have a good day. Being polite just make things go more smoothly.

Original post: Naomi Chan

What is not Satanic about being very polite and attractive all veiling a dangerous mind?

Original post: Dunhill

Nice Lord Liber.

A prick is a prick is a prick regardless of personal ethos.
Being self-confident is not the same thing as being a pompous ass.

Original post: Venefica

Being self-confident is not the same thing as being a pompous ass.

Hear hear, and very many forget this, believing that being elf confidant and following ones own rules is the same as having to be an ass, many thing to be independent one need to be rude, but it is just not so.

Original post: DamnElephant

I consider myself a satanist, not a very learned one, but im trying to change that.

the way i see it is that everyone has to interact with society in some way or another to advance themselves. I, as you say, give society the finger with my actions and the way i live my life. but saying "fuck you" to the guy at the drive through window will probably just result in some extra sauce on my burger.
and who knows, helping an old lady with her groceries might just earn me 5 dollars

Original post: endor957

Hans2;261205 wrote:Most Satanists seem to equate notions of "brotherhood" (in the Christian sense of the word) with weakness. Most Satanists likewise focus (naturally) on themselves, their needs, goals, etc., but to what extent is this practical in a social setting? How do these things mesh with notions of civility in society? Is civility rooted only in spiritual concepts which Satanists eschew, or did it exist before these were developed?

Well, to be polite here, I'd say it comes down to thinking for yourself. You can not let what somebody says or do dictate what's right for you. I mean perhaps I'm looking at this wrong but...I mean, if a person is civil in society i.e. going out does that make them fake to a what they follow?
I mean there's many women out around, dressing pretty, and I have uncivil thoughts but I remain civil because I know better although there are those who can't help themselves.
Also, if I was uncivil in a certain situation be it fighting, arguing, fucking, whatever, does that make me true to some "satanic" dictate?

Hans2;261205 wrote: Is one untrue to Satanic ideals if he or she gives up a seat on a bus to a handicapped, pregnant or elderly person? Is it "non-Satanic" to be pleasant to people and to not believe that every kind human act is based on an ulterior motive? Is it against Satanic principles, for example, to risk one's life to save another?

Are you serious?

Hans2;261205 wrote:I ask these questions because many Satanists seem to believe that self-deification (however perceived) goes hand in hand with being rude or uncivil, or acting whenever possible in ways that go against the "norm" in order to prove a point. This seems (to me at least) to go against our own best self interests in the long run. Am I trully empowered because I give "society" the finger, or is empowerment and self deification geared to things of substance that are more subtle in nature?

Well, those people are just plain assholes-PERIOD. You look out in the world, it's a fucking CIRCUS with live animals!!!! One of my female friends that I've had a fallen out with recently told me that I'm resentful along with being 'evil'-i don't know where the e word came from but the resentful part is TRUE. All my life I was hated or not liked or scorn for not following some pre-concieved mold based on my race, whatever. Most of my young life, I felt or think that I was made to feel that something was wrong with me, or that I wasn't going to "cut it" and I grow up and look at the same society that said so, and this society is the Jerry Springer show man.

I mean to me, what you're asking could be looked at like this: I'm black, and I live in a black neighborhood, but if I don't wear my pants sagging, listen to the newest mixtape, or wear my hat with a flat brim, or speak 'hood' does that not make me black? Who says these things?
As for these godly like people-you know what, alot of people use many things to hide behind, a mask to run away from the world because they're afraid of being on the new guest panel for Springer live and "satanism" is no different.

Real people who're into extreme paths of mysteries are everyday people that EVEN I couldn't concieve of being but that goes to show that the arte be it whatever name is beyond any organization, forum chat rooms, dictates or books.

Bless Be Unto You

Original post: Eretik

In society,you get further with honey than vinegar.Isn't it just good sense, Satanists can't be humanitarian? what about compassion,isn't that important? I read that it is.Am I wrong?Satanism is a belief system/philosophy I can resonate with, but arseholes deserve shit and arseholes who see people by colour of skin,gender or sexuality as inferior don't deserve to gain anything other than a good kicking,be that physical,psychic or emotional.Sorry folks,I 'm a bit drunk so feeling brave and posting here. I like this part of the forum,I see much sense on it.

Original post: Banshee

we are a social animal and there for seek others of our species (or in some other cases pets) for the pourposes of mental stimulation and another focus on which to concentrate. that why u will find a lot of hermits crazy beacause of spending to much time thinking.. any way seeking out others and exchanging pleasentries and now days phone numbers is an esential p[art of our lifes as it extends pak to our early days of having to rely on each other for the reasons of survivial, just like any animal we are most vanrabble when we are alone then we are in a pack (sound shit don't it?)

i find being civil and gracious in all situations an advantage, i could use those people i come accross later on for my own needs and they won't feel as if im trying to use them and therefore be more compelled to grant my request. this gets me any thing from getting shouted at the pub too just a stimulating conversation..
we are a social animal and there for seek others of our species (or in some other cases pets) for the purposes of mental stimulation and another focus on which to concentrate. Thatâ??s why u will find a lot of hermits crazy because of spending to much time with their own thoughts.. any way seeking out others and exchanging pleasantries and now days phone numbers is an essential part of our lifeâ??s as it extends to our early days of having to rely on each other for the reasons of survival, just like any animal we are most venerable when we are alone then we are in a pack (sound shit don't it?)
I find being civil and gracious in all situations an advantage, I could use those people I come across later on for my own needs and they won't feel as if im trying to use them and therefore be more compelled to grant my request. this gets me any thing from getting shouted at the pub too just a stimulating conversation..

Original post: doh

[QUOTE=Naomi Chan;261283]What is not Satanic about being very polite and attractive all veiling a dangerous mind?[/QUOTE] Many don't understand or appreciate subtlety and the ability to make others comfortable for the moment.

I don't consider those that this original question is based on necessarily rude. I just find them to be of an "I don't give a fat rat's ass what other's think about me" mentality. Yes, there are those that are rude because they can be and that is the only reason. But more often than not, I just find many to be apathetic to what others think about them.

And, rudeness is in the eye of the beholder. If you want to be rude (according to your own standards), those that are rude according to those standards will be attracted towards communication with you, at you, or about something else entirely.

Original post: Sushumma

I think we are barking the wrong tree when we think of "usefullnes" of good manners. Some set of good manners and general "positive disposition" and optimism develop automatically if you are enjoying your life in general, and enjoying your life more certainly is an aim of satanick worck.

Original post: messiah of sin

i cant speak for all my brothers and sisters but i am a satanist and i hate civility, it's denying your animal nature and trying to be what society tells you

Original post: doh

I have to disagree. Civility plays with the things you mention. Animal nature and all.

We are the top of the food chain, which technically is our nature. How far would we have climbed if no one learned the art of civility? We would still be fighting one another based only on animal instinct.

Civility and manners are a wonderful tool. One that can get you well ahead of the curve that doesn't mean that you have to renounce your beliefs. It's an art, like I and Naomi mentioned before. After all, how many animals (going on the animal instinct) use camoflauge to entice prey? Civility can be a measure of happiness or upbringing, as Sushumma mentioned. But it can also be a very valuable tool in making, literally, others listen to what you have to say and having the ability to espouse your views and making others listen, whether they agree or not, akin to a camoflauged predator that pounces when the prey gets close enough because of the camoflauge.

Original post: frater luciferi

we like to think ourselves better then animals at least. not that intellectualism has liberated us from the jungle, only recreated it. Satanists are wolves, and the majority of people are sheep. that is not elitist. I suppose as a luciferian i would equate myself a wolf or a coyote, maybe a superintelligent ape lol. Either way i keep a game face on when i deal with people unless they cross a certain line- IE the golden rule+ burn the motherfuckers down if they piss on my parade. Atypical scorpio though, my friends i adopt as a part of the pack, if they cross me i make sure to make their lives a living hell-and have done so. Some asshole rips off my guitar amp? i torch his car(waay past the statute of limitations assholes). I don't present an evil appearance. but life is a game of darwinian survival of the fittest- and i found that channeling my dark side is a good survival instinct in a world full of people who tend to underestimate my worth/power.

Power is knoledge. the everlasting trump card is he who holds the cards has the power, those who don't bow to power are empowered. like i said wolves and wolves. my path is a lightbearing path, but i do not deny my dark side. its the yin and yang of existance.

Original post: messiah of sin

civility is here so set us apart from animals, but satanism teaches that man is just another animal

Original post: Naomi Chan

[QUOTE=Eretik;261890]In society,you get further with honey than vinegar.Isn't it just good sense, Satanists can't be humanitarian? what about compassion,isn't that important? I read that it is.Am I wrong?Satanism is a belief system/philosophy I can resonate with, but arseholes deserve shit and arseholes who see people by colour of skin,gender or sexuality as inferior don't deserve to gain anything other than a good kicking,be that physical,psychic or emotional.Sorry folks,I 'm a bit drunk so feeling brave and posting here. I like this part of the forum,I see much sense on it.[/QUOTE]

Yes wisdom and compassion are very important indeed...

Original post: Raal

Satanists who would refute all xtian teachings, even those that are good and practical are idiots, just like all other (also xtian) idiots. satanists-non-satanists- who cares? (but idiots.) lol

Original post: messiah of sin

i don't refute all christian teachings, i just embrace satanic ones

some parts of the bible say to question authority and rebel, i sure as hell agree with that, but christianity today tells people to be quiet and stand in line, just like their enemies did in their own damn holy book, thats hypocrisy for you

Original post: frater luciferi

Raal;262156 wrote:Satanists who would refute all xtian teachings, even those that are good and practical are idiots, just like all other (also xtian) idiots. satanists-non-satanists- who cares? (but idiots.) lol

jeshauh was a very enlightened man, perhaps he transcended his humanity to become "god" or not. however he was definately not a man not to be crossed. I think he understood the need to be kind to those who needed it, and stern with those who deserved it. A rouge rabbi indeed. I don't find it contradictory as a luciferian to not gain from an enlightened teacher- i DO however find the religion that was founded on his teachings to be one of the worst constructed-hell any of the monotheist judeo-offshoots islam included.

go one further , read the dhammapada, the gnostic texts, hermetic texts. fuck ANY thing that grants you better insight on your path. I've definately paid serious consequences for misteps in my path- not covering my ass when fucking with the powers that be. or knowing when to watch my sharp tounge lol

Original post: Capillarian

[QUOTE=Lord Liber;261217]Mediocrities hide their failure with misanthropy.
Friends are far more dangerous than enemies. Therefore, to be as dangerous as possible, have as many friends as possible.[/QUOTE]

You seem to pick a few fights on this site, mainly under a veil of heightened eloquence that distracts your victims from realizing they are being ridiculed. I understand your point on misanthropy, but do you feel that you are a victim of the same, given your predisposition to find faults in others?

Original post: Azerate218

[QUOTE=Hans2;261205]Most Satanists seem to equate notions of "brotherhood" (in the Christian sense of the word) with weakness. Most Satanists likewise focus (naturally) on themselves, their needs, goals, etc., but to what extent is this practical in a social setting? How do these things mesh with notions of civility in society? Is civility rooted only in spiritual concepts which Satanists eschew, or did it exist before these were developed? Is one untrue to Satanic ideals if he or she gives up a seat on a bus to a handicapped, pregnant or elderly person? Is it "non-Satanic" to be pleasant to people and to not believe that every kind human act is based on an ulterior motive? Is it against Satanic principles, for example, to risk one's life to save another?

[/QUOTE]

The MLO is a brotherhood, and one of those most devoted (and feared) Satanic organizations. Brotherhood is not necessarily aginst Satanic principles.

The Satanist looks at society with contempt, but tries to fit in. The Satanist is polite, and moves as a wolf among sheep. He/she secretly houses a dangerous mind.

The Satanist would not sacrafice his/her life for someone else, as 99.9% of humans are cattle. Their lives do not matter. As for the few that actually matter, they can fend for themselves.

Original post: Bone_Dancer

I guess the curiosity I have about Misanthropic Luciferianism is, if the misanthrope hates and distrusts humankind, how then do they love themselves?! So as to feel worthy of anything except surviving as an individual living in a hateful environment amid an entire population of the hated. And how does a misanthropic Luciferian ever have friends or lovers when misanthropy, by definition, would preclude such attachments!?

Original post: Azerate218

[QUOTE=Bone_Dancer;320900]I guess the curiosity I have about Misanthropic Luciferianism is, if the misanthrope hates and distrusts humankind, how then do they love themselves?! So as to feel worthy of anything except surviving as an individual living in a hateful environment amid an entire population of the hated. And how does a misanthropic Luciferian ever have friends or lovers when misanthropy, by definition, would preclude such attachments!?[/QUOTE]

The misanthrope views themselves as superior to mankind. Therefore it is possible for them to love themselves.

I view all members of the MLO as a superior breed of human, therefore I can respect them. As for my friends, I pick who my friends are. I look for people that have above average intelligence. I look for superior humans to be my friends.