I hate it when you type up something large and hit submit and find that you've been disconnected. always worth right clicking in the text field, 'select all', right click in it again, 'copy'... then submit. then your post is in your computer's clipboard. but yeah, i have all too often forgotten to do that myself. I try to remember to for larger posts though.
Kath wrote:Personally, in my own precognition, I get ZERO content which is not from a 'first hand' perspective. In other words, if I glimpse the future, like say next saturday afternoon, then I'll have no f'n clue what you or anybody else will be doing next saturday afternoon, unless you happen by chance to actually be in my company, within my visual field of view, at the relevant time of the precognitive perception. I other words, I've found it utterly useless regarding anybody else's future, unless they plan to move in with me just to make a cameo in my next precognitive perception. So the fact that I *never* get any precognitive content about anybody else, leads me in a somewhat skeptical direction regarding the psychic trade itself. BUT, I recognize that this may be presumptuous. I can't say that just because I've only ever driven cars, that pickup trucks don't exist, eh? but it makes me wonder.
You need a personal perspective, one truly unique. Where there are no more laws, you can begin to discern the laws of that individual... even for the coming Saturday. But are you interested enough?
That sounds sorta like "maybe its cuz you're just self focused". To which i'd reply "maybe". But it doesn't quite answer it for me. The sense isn't that its 90% about me, or that i'm even necessarily important within precognitive content, but simply that what I precognitively perceive is always from a 'first hand' perspective. In other words, I perceive it as a participant part of the future. Its visual, auditory, touch, smell, taste, feeling. It's always a 'being there', as my future self. Not an outside floating viewpoint that just follows me cuz I like me so much. When I was a child, i accepted the idea of foretelling the future quite easily, because of my experiences. But when i heard that there were people who foretold other peoples' futures, that sounded alien and silly to me. Just doesn't work that way for me. Which isn't to say that it doesn't or can't work, just that it doesn't sit well in my gut.
Perhaps if I eventually get this magnum opus thing all worked out then 'first person perspective' will take on a somewhat broader meaning and I'll be a little less egocentric in my precognition
Back when I was a christian, I always liked saint thomas. he saw christ walking on water, but that didn't make him into a "just believe anything" kind of guy. Must be a distant ancestor of mine. I try not to be overly cynical, but I don't believe in much without first seeing first hand the mechanism or principal by which it works. If I weren't overtly psychic, and fairly interactive with various entities, I would be a happily simpler atheist. for example, i've never seen a ufo or an alien, so I "just smile & nod" when people talk about them. Which doesn't mean that there can't be any aliens, just that I don't have very much respect for the rationality or even sanity of mankind, and I've never seen any aliens. (unless you count a nonphysical being I ran across last year which did actually look a lot like how UFO people describe aliens, but I digress)
Philosophy: There are obviously so many gray areas between free will and predetermination. Reading Hitler's or Bundy's chart made me feel these people were simply playing parts. I could not say that about my grandmother. Glad that you have arrived at such a differentiated place of wondering. That is the beginning of true wisdom.
3 words are the beginning of wisdom, "I don't know"
maybe 4, depending on your view of contractions.
Regarding free will & pre-determinism, this has been a subject of a great deal of study by myself, for about 30 years now. I'd love to run with that topic, but I'd end up completely burying this thread in reams of text on that subject if I get started
...On teh contrary, you may try to do tarot for yourself! If the principle that whoever is doing it affects the reading works, in this case, it watered it down, it may very well work the other way too!
Are you saying i should interpret my own tarot reading? or that I need to handle the cards & do all of it? if you're suggesting the latter, then are you meaning to say that there is a magical 'non-chance' event occurring in the order & placement of the cards? Because i've always kinda viewed tarot as being fairly random, and occurring more in the reader, where the cards are just forming a framework to work in/reflect on. But if you think that the order & placement of the cards is 'magically active' in itself, then that would imply some pretty far reaching ideas, in terms of your paradigm.
I'd suspect that I wouldn't be very good at doing my own tarot, because I don't really have much confidence in tarot cards, and in my magical practices, I've found confidence to be a necessary ingredient.
You may look at the planets as the unconscious of the Sun and the Moon which are far more noticeable. They have little physical effect, yet they are on the same team. Arcturus is not. The basis of this archaic world view was what things kept on moving across the sky regularly and what didn't. What didn't was considered less important. Plus, morphic resonance... they've been at it for billions of years... they're pretty steadfast.
Pluto is barely noticeable in gravity when seeing the Sun. But as an analogy, a virus is much smaller than your organs, yet it may be a significant factor in some parts of your life because it is pattern, not quantity that matters in this case.
except that in a mind, the unconscious is typically much larger and more powerful/influential than the conscious mind. and in the sky, pluto ain't jack.
If i jump up into the air, the earth moves away from me in an equal and opposite reaction to me. The earth moves away from me with the same amount of energy I jump up with. However, its actual movement is immeasurably tiny, because its mass is so much greater, the earth only moves some near infinite small distance in order to amount to the same kinetic energy. But technically, when i jump, the earth does move. really distant planets, or smaller planets which are 'pretty distant', their impact on the earth, in terms of actual physical impact, is in this same negligible bracket as jumping up & down. every time we launch a satellite into orbit, we push on the earth more than mars' gravity does. So in terms of physical impact, it's just not there. in terms of light or radiation, again, negligible.
as for the potency of tiny influences in complex systems, that's really sort of touching on something like The Butterfly Wing Effect. The idea being that in complex and unpredictable dynamic systems, every tiny input affects the progress of all variables in the system in such a way that every variation is magnified as it cascades through time. For example, a butterfly flaps its wings in china, or it doesn't... 6 months later a hurricane hits either florida or cuba depending on whether it did or not. This is somewhat countered by opposing views as well, and the truth, is probably in a golden mean. However, the butterfly wing effect concept is a part of chaos theory physics. IE the whole point of it is that events are ultimately unpredictable by nature, due to the cascading effect of countless tiny and unknowable variables. So to say that you're predicting the future by leaning on butterflywingeffect-like influences on our world and lives, is... like saying you use liquid nitrogen to heat up leftover pizza. the butterfly wing effect lends itself to unpredictability, not predictability (divination).
All of which is to say, that there is nothing in physics, theoretical or otherwise, which in any way lends anything at all to the validity of astrology. It does not say that astrology works or doesn't work, but that if it does, it would be 'magic', not the subtle forces of nature. Or, I should say, not any of the subtle forces of nature which we are currently scientifically aware of.
I am somewhat handicapped in my view of astrology, in that I am an avid fan & hobbyist of astroNOMY, so my sense of wonder when looking up at the night sky is somewhat filled up with knowledge already. When I look up, I have a pretty clear understanding of what I'm looking at. You could drop me off anywhere on earth, give me a working watch, the date, and one day&night of clear skies, and I could tell you where on earth I am within a couple hundred miles without any other tools. Cuz they're not just pretty dots moving across other dots that look like patterns, they're objects in 3D space moving in a 3D clockwork.
If the moon occludes venus, its a fairly significant astrological event. astronomically its a somewhat rare event. But rationally its just two objects, one in front of the other. Is there a mystical significance? maybe, but its certainly a leap of faith to think so. Zoroaster would say so, but I'm not a member of any persian religions personally.
But what do i know? I talk to nonphysical beings, I'm in no position to critisize someone for thinking 'the moon touched venus & it means something'
Precog events: I still could not figure out how they happen. But sometimes they just happen to me. I am lucky if it is during astrological counseling...
Wishful thinking is another thing that can destroy a reading's accuracy. But believe me, what I am mostly concerned with are concrete facts such as "is her husband getting so abusive during the coming months that she has to divorce or will he try to forgive and make peace?" If you know the karmic framework of these people involved, you may know a direction of their choices. If not, or not enough, you can point to a time as omen: say, if the relationship got worse this March, I would not bet on it.
It has been my experience that people already know what is going on in their life, and/or what they need to do. They just subconsciously cloud the matter for various psychological reasons. I don't read fortunes, but I do read people, and I'm pretty good with 'minds'. I've found that by hanging out with 'psychics' I've managed to steal some fame for myself, by solving peoples' problems with psychology & logic instead. I have even had people, who had screamingly obvious situations, but wouldn't cooperate with reason or logic unless i pretended to make it 'mystical', then they underwent cathartic experience, and seemed very impressed. There's a couple episodes of South Park which really just capture that sort of experience perfectly, usually when Kyle or Stan are trying to talk sense into adults.
Honestly I could be a really great 'psychic' just by taking my ability to get into peoples' heads, on both a psychological level and yes, on a metaphysical level too. And cutting through the superficial thought processes, examining the voices which underly the internal dialog, using lateral thinking, problem solving, etc. And then making up some sort of mystical song & dance to dazzle & amaze, while subtly directing people towards rational perspectives which 'make everything seem so clear now'. Because frankly 90% of everything anyone ever asks a psychic, is something they unconsciously already know the answer to.
But I'd not enjoy doing that.
Keep up your differentiated thinking!
hehe, I've never had much choice but to
again though, remember I'm speaking skeptically, but as a practicioner of magic(k), and pioneer/student of my own enlightenment path. just trying to be Frank, not Hostile (technically i'm Kate though, *smirk*). I keep repeating that because I'm really enjoying the discussion, and don't want it to seem unfriendly
you can put a big fat "I think..." in front of any of my statements.