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Help to identify this ring please.

Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:02 am
by timmay13
I was curious to see if any one has seen this ring before or might be able to tell me what the symbols represent. I recognize the symbol for sulfur, tin and wheel. A friend of mine has found this ring while metal detecting in Southern Ontario. I have posted it on a few Alchemy forums with not to much info brought to light. No one on the alchemy forums had any idea if the face is supposed to be a certain individual or used to represent something/someone else.

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Here are the pics from my friends ring:
Image Image

Here are pics from another poster on one of the alchemy forums that was posted back in 2009 by a different individual of a identical ring:
Image Image

Re: Help to identify this ring please.

Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:45 am
by Madavascus
Dear timmay13,

A most fascinating find for your friend! What intrigues me most about this ring is the face of the man in the middle of the signet. I can't recognize this individual. At first I thought it was Crowley, but it looks nothing like him. If anything it kind of looks like Ian McDiarmid, who portrayed the sinister character Palpatine in Star Wars ( [clown] ), although this is quite unlikely.

Let's see... starting from the top of the head of the unknown august old man, going clock-wise:
1) Satanic cross-like symbol;
2) Jupiter-like symbol, but with a miniature cross on the right-hand end of the symbol, perhaps a sigillum traced on a planetary square;
3) Cross with fourfold quarters, probably a symbol of the four elements, perhaps a Celtic cross?;
4) A symbol that looks a lot like the symbol used in astrology to denote an opposition aspect between two planets in a Placidus chart, but the two parallel lines in the middle...;
5) Reminiscent of an archaic astrological symbol for Neptune... but I frankly don't know... Could also be a miniature Hand of Fatima symbol, although very unlikely.
6) Wheel with six spokes... reminiscent of the alchemical symbol for Aether/Quintessence, but not quite;
7) I don't know;
8 ) Same as #3;
9) Can't see it very well because of the flash...; could it be like #3?
10) Uncertain because of the flash... maybe a rune?
11) Squarish rendition of #1;
12) Same as #1, except with the tip of the cross points outside the middle of the signet, and has another line to the cross section;
13) The astrological symbol for Sagittarius, probably;
14) Same as #3;
15) Reminiscent of the symbol for Petriochor... cf. Order of Nine Angles manuscript Naos and
16) Classic symbol for Jupiter.

As for the significance of the three glyphs on the sides of the ring, from top to bottom:
1) Cross with four quarters, perhaps a symbol of the four elements, seasons, quarters, archangels, etc. Symbol occurs 3 (or 4) times on the signet - if 4 times, this could be a significant pattern: There is four such symbols occurring four times on the signet, and having four different symbols in between occurrences. Cf. Agrippa's chapter on the number 4 in the Three Books of Occult Philosophy.
2) Cross with an infinity symbol at the base - the Satanic cross. Symbol occurs 2 (or 3) times on the signet, but with varying forms...
3) Unknown symbol, perhaps Neptune or Hand of Fatima. Symbol only occurs once on the signet.

The signet seems to have a fiery sun-like frame with the rays emanating in a clock-wise motion... perhaps indicative of the order the glyphs out to be read.

This ring could be some sort of talismanic ring, or a mnemonic. If it possesses any occult power, you may attempt discerning its occult property by scrying.

Using all the inductive reasoning I have at my disposal, I can't make out anything clear out of this haphazard selection of apparently unrelated alchemical/occult symbols except for what I've said... If I think of anything else, I'll let you know here.

This has been a most entertaining post to write... [grin] Thank you, and please PM me if you ever find out what this ring means!

Re: Help to identify this ring please.

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:07 am
by timmay13
Thank you for your reply. Very interesting. I asked the owner for close-up pics of the symbols on the face of the ring and here they are. I believe I have them in correct order from the top going clockwise.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

I hopes that this will help with identification. Thank you again in advance.

Re: Help to identify this ring please.

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:18 am
by Madavascus
Thank you for providing these precisions, timmay13, sadly I can't say anything further on the symbols than what I've already said, except that one of the symbols now looks to me as another jovial (Jupiter) sigil.

I've slept on this conundrum and I've come to the conclusion that this ring is probably a mnemonic device, the symbols on the signet being some sort of formula with an encrypted meaning known only to the original owner or maker. I don't think it's a talismanic ring because of the over-abundance of symbols with varying meanings. Such an haphazard variety in a talisman causes any specific occult property to collapse into a chaotic state, unable to exert its own particular influence versus the others.

If someday you were able to identify the man on the signet, I think that may well be the key to solving this mystery...

Re: Help to identify this ring please.

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:50 am
by timmay13
Thank you again for the reply. I'm still trying to research the face on the ring as well as some of the symbols. It seems there are many...if just slightly different variations to the symbols. I find it very interesting indeed. Thank you for your efforts to help me decipher the ring. If I find anything further about it I will be sure to post here for you to know. Have a great night.

Re: Help to identify this ring please.

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:47 am
by Vashta
Thank you for the close-up pictures, a lot of the symbols look very familiar, I have a big list of symbols and their meanings at home, and I think a lot of these are in there, but, obviously, the symbols could be repurposed as SSormany has suggested..

I'll let you know what I find. I think they look a lot like alchemical ingredients and/or processes, but I'd really need to check my notes.

Edit: And the picture looks a lot like pope Benedict to me, but it might be downright strange if it is...

Re: Help to identify this ring please.

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:08 pm
by Nahemah
Is it lead or pewter? interesting metal,perhaps that migh be significant also?

Re: Help to identify this ring please.

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:19 pm
by timmay13
Thank you to all for showing interest in the ring. I very much appreciate any and all assistance.

I contacted the owner of the ring. He is unsure of the metal make-up of the ring. He says it is quite heavy weighing in at 40.8Grams. I have requested additional measurements for the ring. I also asked him to see if the ring has a blueish tint to it when he cleaned it up a bit more. Lower grades of pewter usually have a blueish tint to them from the lead in it.

Re: Help to identify this ring please.

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:35 pm
by akimbomoss
I have a very good feeling about this ring. At first I thought the ring was very evil.

TREAD CAREFULLY WITH THIS RING. OH SO CAREFULy

Re: Help to identify this ring please.

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:26 pm
by timmay13
Ok...I received measurements for the ring.

Weight: 40.8 Grams (1.44 oz)
Height: 30mm (1.18")
Diameter: 30mm (1.18")
Non Magnetic
Ring Size: 10 3/4

Re: Help to identify this ring please.

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:54 pm
by yyxx
wow what an interesting find. Does the ring/the finding of the ring happen to coincide with anything particular at this point in the finder's life? I don't think a ring like that just falls into the hands of anyone, particularly if they have some idea where to look for answers to such a thing...
At first when I saw it my initial impulse was "want it!!!", but I must say there is a sense of foreboding about it. If someone presented me with such a ring, I would be torn between hesitance and enthusiasm in accepting it.
There is a familiarity about it that borders on disturbing...
Maybe its some really smart/devious person's way of 'fishing'/'humaning' for certain types of people

Re: Help to identify this ring please.

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:44 pm
by dodaive
the first enlarged picture on the left, I have the reference, but it didn't tell what it is Sommerhoff (1701), I 'll update this when I find more.

Re: Help to identify this ring please.

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:27 pm
by timmay13
Does the ring/the finding of the ring happen to coincide with anything particular at this point in the finder's life?
Not that I'm aware of. He has not mentioned anything special or different to me. As far as I can tell...just another average day.

Re: Help to identify this ring please.

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:20 pm
by hyperRitual
Not sure about the identity of the gentleman, but the symbols are mostly or all alchemical. I recognize glass, borax, brimstone, lead, sulfur, essence/oil, lye ... If you Google alchemical symbols, you should be able to sort them out.

Edited to add: most if not all of these can be found in Koch's Book of Signs.

Re: Help to identify this ring please.

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:36 pm
by Madavascus
If anything it kind of looks like Ian McDiarmid, who portrayed the sinister character Palpatine in Star Wars ( ), although this is quite unlikely.
Edit: And the picture looks a lot like pope Benedict to me, but it might be downright strange if it is...
Image

ROFL. [rofl]

Re: Help to identify this ring please.

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:26 pm
by Nahemah
I remember seeing a gif that had Pope Benedict on it at first,the rolling text was folk shouting 'hooray'....it slowly morphs into Palpatine and the text turns to 'oh shit'......[or summat very similar]..I fell off my chair laughing,literally,first time I saw it...O... [eek]

The picture is quite odd looking,but the ring itself is a thing of beauty,in my opinion.

I think you can calculate the metal by working out the density [ g/cm3]and checking Data book values for certain metals,but I 've never tried that with a shape like this,it made my head asplode trying...

So I went off and watched some Torus vids on youtube instead.

I wonder if Dodaive will find anything out about his reference? It might be very Illuminating if he does.

Re: Help to identify this ring please.

Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:00 am
by timmay13
Thank you all for your replies. I will look up the reference material recommended. Have a great weekend everyone.

Re: Help to identify this ring please.

Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:12 pm
by akimbomoss
Image

ROFL. [rofl][/quote]

I have been getting many messages from this ring. I hear a squeeking mouse. I went to see The Fox and he said "Lust is Power". While saying this his face went big and his eyes were hugs. I never saw him look that strange before.

The Fox also wishes to extend a warning once again. He says "Whoever so putteth this ring on their finger may they have pure thoughts. For not is a disaster."

Re: Help to identify this ring please.

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:03 am
by timmay13
Here is was a member from a different forum has said about the symbols on the ring.

I hope you enjoy reading it:

So Here is the final analysis. Below is a diagram I’ve put together and numbered each of the symbols. This way I can just refer to the number instead of trying to describe the symbol. Yes, I know the symbols are messy. Yes, I also know my diagram is crooked. And yes, I know I put a ‘me gusta’ face with a squirrel on it in place of the persons. But now, Down to business.

Image

The Band diagram:

Image

Recipe

First analysis is assuming the reagents and symbols are for a recipe. Here they are, assuming the order of the symbols starts from the temple of the figures head. The direct center is in between the two red ‘arrowed’ symbols where a red star is indicated.

1) Balsamic Vinegar (liquid) CH3COOH
2) Menstruum (liquid) Solvent
3) Arsenic (applied to fire? Unsure.) As
4) Salt (aqueous) NaCl + H2O
5) Sal Armoniac (Solid/dust) NH4Cl
6) Lead (Molten) Pb
7) Sorrel (European plant)
8) Lead (solid) Pb
9) Zinc (aqueous) Zn + H2O
10) Mercury (burnt remains of) Hg
11) Sulfur (gaseous) S2
12) Iron (solid) Fe
13) Menstruum (liquid) solvent
14) Air (assumed reaction with CO2)
15) Tin (Liquid) Sn
16) Brimstone (essentially powdered or solid Sulfur) S2

Ok, so looking at this, it’s very hard to tell what is a reactant and a product. I would assume it is an order of what should be added to produce an unsaid product, but again, there is not enough information to be sure. At best this would be a list of ingredients, leaving the product as well as essential process left unsaid. For this reason, I doubt it’s a recipe, but here it is anyway. Another thing to consider is the band, as in where it fits into the formula. It could indicate that it is both a precursor or closer, but this would be far more likely if it is in the form of a spell, not a recipe. Either way, here’s the alignment of the band:

1) Sorrel (European Plant)
2) Brimstone (powder or solid) S2
3) Salt (aqueous) NaCl + H2O

No having looked over the ‘recipe’ on the band, it doesn’t look like any audible solution. Likely hood would have it that if this portion is indeed a recipe, it is for incense or a sachet. Nothing I would use though, the fumes from that would be highly hallucinatory.

Symbolism

In checking out the symbolism of the various parts, we should be able to distinguish a purpose for the ring. I’ll list the various symbolisms, and then how they fit together at the end. Starting, of course, with the face of the ring.

1) Refinement, change.
2) Balance, duality, parts of a whole.
3) Masculinity, Potency.
4) Preservation, blessing.
5) Congealing, flexability.
6) Darkness, Prime, base.
7) Parental affection.
8) Darkness, Prime, base.
9) Migration, Joining.
10) Teaching, Creation.
11) Multiplicity, aspiration.
12) Strength, Masculinity.
13) Consumption, Dispersing.
14) Expose, become visible.
15) Life, Group instinct.
16) Greater Wrath, Hell.

What it could mean:

Putting it all together makes it read something like:

To obtain change [refinement] you must balance the parts of the whole. Defend your honor, but remain open to the power of the Darkness [perhaps a deity, the group]. This darkness [deity of darkness] will join, teaching the mass of it’s strength, becoming a part of you, and becoming a [visible] part of [the groups] life, to life’s [world’s] end.

Looking at it, it definitely resorts to the same ‘group’ philosophy seen before. It’s definitely an artifact of a group or cult, explaining the multiple rings, and the man on the center is either the high priest, or is believed to be of the ‘deity’ mentioned earlier. I don’t understand cult logic too well, but either way, the man was persuasive.

Symbolism: Part 2

Now I’m gonna look at the sides of the ring. It would seem it would be a beginning and ending phrase, and the way it is symmetrical around the face, indicates that it is more likely a blessing, as would the recipe implement of incense indicate.

1) Parental Affection.
2) Greater wrath, Hell.
3) Preservation, Blessing.

Not too many ways to look at that.

What it could mean:

Putting that together makes it read something like:

The father [of darkness] gives his greater wrath [blessing] to preserve you.

Interesting. But yea, definitely a cult path, probably satanic or intentionally dark. Fitting anyway, because the ring itself looks creepy. Looking at the general other features and the circular nature it could ensue a completion of a ritual or circle, and the rope’d design is a bit more to show the tight-knit aspects of the group.

As an Incantation:

As an incantation, it would be traditionally recited to bring about an effect sealed within the ring. In retrospect of what I have already said, if it is an incantation it is an activation to a dark blessing. If chosen to be spoken, it should be said in three parts like the inscriptions on the ring. Presumably, the ring would also be worn when activating.

1) Virdesrile (Vir-des-real-ae)
2) Abyssus (Ab-yiss-us)
3) Reservo (Res-aer-voe)

Part 2:

1) Vinyard (Veen-Yard) lol, pretty much English
2) Acctum (ak-toom)
3) Arsenicum (Ar-sen-E-coom)
4) Reservo (Res-aer-voe)
5) Solvo (Saul-voe)
6) Caliga (Ca-lee-gah)
7) Virdesrile (Vir-des-real-ae)
8) Caliga (Ca-lee-gah)
9) Nix Alba (obvious)
10) Calx (obvious)
11) Inciter (Een-cite-aer)
12) Ferrum (obvious)
13) Acctum (ak-toom)
14) Aer (air)
15) Stannum (obvious)
16) Abyssus (ab-yiss-us)

Part 3:

1) Virdesrile (Vir-des-real-ae)
2) Abyssus (Ab-yiss-us)
3) Reservo (Res-aer-voe)

Please, I would advise not testing the incantation. I know I have listed it, but that is only because I went on a research rampage. In turn, I hope this helps with what you’re trying to find.

Conclusion:

In list form, here’s what we know for sure:

-It belonged to a cult, small or large.
-Man on the front is a leader or precieved diety.
-The cult is of an obvious dark nature.
-It would seem the basis of said cult is to almost not be destroyed in an apocalyptic type event to serve a greater ‘evil’ or darkness. As is , I won’t jump to assumptions as to the origin of the diety.
-The ring itself is to bind the wearer to the ‘leader’ so if by the small chance it is not enchanted, it would act only as a symbol of alligence.
-If it is enchanted it is to protect from an ‘end of days’ event as well as open the wearer to perceived ‘dark’ teachings.

This is quite common of cults, to be based around a single event or idea, rather than a coven, which would conduct only general magic, ritual, ect.

Hope this helped. Oh, and as to that ‘number’ question you had. It can have an impact, but only in the way the perceived incantation or symbolism is put together or read.

Hope this helped! If you have any questions let me know, I’ll do my best to answer!

Re: Help to identify this ring please.

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:16 am
by akimbomoss
For God Defier sakes it's just a Samadhi ring really. I almost died today achieving Samadhi. No comment about whether or not it felt good. I think it did AFTER 20 MINUTES OF SHEER AND UTTER TERROR.

Re: Help to identify this ring please.

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:36 am
by timmay13
akimbomoss wrote:For God Defier sakes it's just a Samadhi ring really. I almost died today achieving Samadhi. No comment about whether or not it felt good. I think it did AFTER 20 MINUTES OF SHEER AND UTTER TERROR.
Forgive my ignorance...what is "Samadhi"?

Re: Help to identify this ring please.

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:47 am
by akimbomoss
timmay13 wrote:
akimbomoss wrote:For God Defier sakes it's just a Samadhi ring really. I almost died today achieving Samadhi. No comment about whether or not it felt good. I think it did AFTER 20 MINUTES OF SHEER AND UTTER TERROR.
Forgive my ignorance...what is "Samadhi"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samadhi

Re: Help to identify this ring please.

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:47 am
by Madavascus
Timmay, that interpretation someone from another forum offered is very interesting. :-)

Re: Help to identify this ring please.

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:43 pm
by timmay13
SSormany wrote:Timmay, that interpretation someone from another forum offered is very interesting. :-)
I found it very interesting reading. I appreciate the member giving their interpretation as to what the symbols mean. Through the research I did I was able to identify some of the symbols...or at least what looked close to some of the symbols on the ring. I was informed that the symbols can vary from alchemist to alchemist, occult to occult or culture to culture. To have someone not only explain what the symbols are but to explain how they could be used was great. I have no knowledge of alchemy or the occult so gaining a bit of an understanding is why I requested information on the symbols depicted.

I did not post the members name of the information provided or the forum they provided it on as I did not ask them if they would want their information posted. I have received negative responses from a few different individuals from different forums saying that I'm a liar and a troll and that I made all this up to make their forum members look like fools for offering to help me in identifying the object. I did not want them to have others tearing them apart for the information they provided. :(

Thank you for the link to Samadhi.

Re: Help to identify this ring please.

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:55 pm
by akimbomoss
timmay13 wrote: I have received negative responses from a few different individuals from different forums saying that I'm a liar and a troll and that I made all this up to make their forum members look like fools for offering to help me in identifying the object. I did not want them to have others tearing them apart for the information they provided. :(

Thank you for the link to Samadhi.
YW :)

Don't worry about the negative responses, that's just Loki. Loki is actually enjoying a nice vacation now.

The wearer must understand that power is an enemy.