I can't call myself extremely knowledgable about different religions, spiritualities and other constructs through which to view the world. However, I've read a fair bit and heard even more from others, themselves. Of all the things I've heard and read, nothing seems real. Mormons say that their founder, Joseph Smith Jr., asked God which religion was right, and the angel said, "None of them." In response, he set up a totally new religion. I've been wondering the answer for awhile now, and it seems as though the moment you set any kind of belief matrix up to represent what you find in the world, it degrades it and makes it impossible to be correct.
Is there any forseeable downside to having no construct that anybody can see from their standpoint?
I'm rather short on time, otherwise it would be a far more in depth post. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
No Spiritual Construct/Matrix
Re: No Spiritual Construct/Matrix
I think you may be completely missing out on the appreciation of myths as metaphors. In every myth, there is a personal line between what we believe as metaphor, and what we believe as literal. Abstract ideas can't be described literally, because concepts don't belong to the material world. Even considering how extremely literal fundamental Christians take the Bible, even they don't believe that there will literally be a beast in the last days that has 7 heads and 10 horns that will come out of the sea. As for the Mormon myth that is one made to market to the masses and give them what they want. I give more creedence to some myths over other ones.
Re: No Spiritual Construct/Matrix
I see what you mean dodaive and agree with you. I was merely saying that while belief systems of any sort can enlighten the believer, they seem to limit one's perception in many areas of life.
I've read in the book, The Strong Eye of Shamanism, that shamans themselves see any given otherside matrix not as an end all truth as some foot washing religions would have the world believe, but as tools for whichever job needs done in the moment. It's really hard, though, to keep my own perspective above wholehearted belief to the exclusion of all others.
In all, I suppose every religion and overall belief seems to be identical in its own rights, One may have a polytheistic pantheon, with many gods of differing authority, while another has a monotheism with one God and many non-gods below him/her/it. Each polytheism is identical to others simply with differing names, and each monotheism is identical in the same manner. Even eastern ideals and beliefs don't discredit these things, places and creatures, merely that they tend more toward the personal salvation end of enlightenment rather than the nature of conversion to rigid faiths.
To flow too deeply into finding one belief better than others or more truthful in the light than all others is the real culprit. To take life's information as it's presented and using it as needed, rather than trying to fit every-sided pieces of information into the square pegs of a single religion or belief construct, would seem wiser.
Disclaimer: This is certainly not to say that those who take to a single faith are wrong or unwise, as each religion and spirituality are quite beautiful no matter the syntax. Buddhas, swamis, and saints all have reached enlightenment and, I'm sure, attained access to heaven...
I've read in the book, The Strong Eye of Shamanism, that shamans themselves see any given otherside matrix not as an end all truth as some foot washing religions would have the world believe, but as tools for whichever job needs done in the moment. It's really hard, though, to keep my own perspective above wholehearted belief to the exclusion of all others.
In all, I suppose every religion and overall belief seems to be identical in its own rights, One may have a polytheistic pantheon, with many gods of differing authority, while another has a monotheism with one God and many non-gods below him/her/it. Each polytheism is identical to others simply with differing names, and each monotheism is identical in the same manner. Even eastern ideals and beliefs don't discredit these things, places and creatures, merely that they tend more toward the personal salvation end of enlightenment rather than the nature of conversion to rigid faiths.
To flow too deeply into finding one belief better than others or more truthful in the light than all others is the real culprit. To take life's information as it's presented and using it as needed, rather than trying to fit every-sided pieces of information into the square pegs of a single religion or belief construct, would seem wiser.
Disclaimer: This is certainly not to say that those who take to a single faith are wrong or unwise, as each religion and spirituality are quite beautiful no matter the syntax. Buddhas, swamis, and saints all have reached enlightenment and, I'm sure, attained access to heaven...
Re: No Spiritual Construct/Matrix
Ahh, found a perfect example of what I was trying to say in the form of a quote from Nietzche describing his thoughts on the Spider Woman of Navajo spirituality:
Many shaman initiations, in the same token, have the death of their body, usually taken into a cave the opening of which was once too small to fit through, and sent through trials in an underworld of some kind. Eventually, after more trials along the way in which they are taught things, they make it to heaven, meet the Maker, and are sent back to Earth.
Of course, the Bible depicts this as an actual physical happening, and I won't claim otherwise, while with Shamanism this seems largely metaphorical of their initiation into shamanization. And of course, I'm sure there have been many a shaman-to-be who didn't quite make it through the tranced training, and actually stayed dead, so what do I know, you know? Sorry to bring forth such a history-type lesson, it's simply amazing how numerous the correlations are. It shows how little I really understood even the religion of my upbringing.
[bored] [humble experience]
Well beyond this, it seems as though every spirituality and religion reflect shaman ways from the last 70,000 years. Almost every tribal culture with active shamans, while they may have their own religious concepts and rituals, holds very similar views on what actually happens beyond the realm of the physical. Even the rituals and conceptions aren't all that different from one another, with a few deviations and changes of names. The Norse have Yygdrasil, while the Mayans have their World Tree; the Mayans again have itz while the eastern traditions have chi, qi, and ki, or even prana. They're all so very similar. Even Christianity seems to resemble this with Jesus' "apparent death" of the body, being sent below to "Hell," mastering the demons and raising to "Heaven" to be sent back, fully alive, to Earth. After being sent back to Earth, he exhibits familiar powers held by shamans everywhere.The spider spins her own world from within herself, unconsciously creating the outer world of exterior representations, just as we do. We produce these representations in and from within ourselves with the same necessity with which the spider spins. We are able to 'catch,' or conceive, only what the web of our outer system of representation is woven to entrap.
Many shaman initiations, in the same token, have the death of their body, usually taken into a cave the opening of which was once too small to fit through, and sent through trials in an underworld of some kind. Eventually, after more trials along the way in which they are taught things, they make it to heaven, meet the Maker, and are sent back to Earth.
Of course, the Bible depicts this as an actual physical happening, and I won't claim otherwise, while with Shamanism this seems largely metaphorical of their initiation into shamanization. And of course, I'm sure there have been many a shaman-to-be who didn't quite make it through the tranced training, and actually stayed dead, so what do I know, you know? Sorry to bring forth such a history-type lesson, it's simply amazing how numerous the correlations are. It shows how little I really understood even the religion of my upbringing.
[bored] [humble experience]
Re: No Spiritual Construct/Matrix
Personally, it is not my experience that I am able to believe something arbitrarily. In the moment that a person believes something, it is that moment that nothing to the contrary of that belief can be discovered or learned. However without belief, a person has no action. This is one thing that each person must choose for themselves, a) How much do you want to discover and learn?, or b) How much do you want to go into action and do something? This is where I would concur with you about understanding the moment and having the right tools for the job.
As for the question of how literal or how metaphorical to interpret myths. I believe most myths are more about what's in front of you and the world we live in as opposed to something deep and mysterious that a person has never seen or understood. IMHO Understanding the mundane is the key to understanding what's deep and mysterious. I think one good practice is trying to explain things that are abstract. Its very difficult to do without metaphors. I have found in most cases words with abstract meanings are too general or too easily misinterpreted to be that useful. One other thing to keep in mind is what's motivating you to believe something. Motivations in themselves have the power to create self-fulfilling prophecies. I know there are a lot of members that would disagree with me, and I may have it all wrong. I am hoping that other members jump on this thread, so that we can get a spectrum of ideas and points of views. I can only speak for my own experience, not for that of others.
As for the question of how literal or how metaphorical to interpret myths. I believe most myths are more about what's in front of you and the world we live in as opposed to something deep and mysterious that a person has never seen or understood. IMHO Understanding the mundane is the key to understanding what's deep and mysterious. I think one good practice is trying to explain things that are abstract. Its very difficult to do without metaphors. I have found in most cases words with abstract meanings are too general or too easily misinterpreted to be that useful. One other thing to keep in mind is what's motivating you to believe something. Motivations in themselves have the power to create self-fulfilling prophecies. I know there are a lot of members that would disagree with me, and I may have it all wrong. I am hoping that other members jump on this thread, so that we can get a spectrum of ideas and points of views. I can only speak for my own experience, not for that of others.
Re: No Spiritual Construct/Matrix
So Why would a person want to use a spiritual construct, matrix, or what I would call a myth? For me it is a matter of trying organize ephemeral experience into an understandable working system. It allows us to be as literal or metaphorical as needed to put specific words on the individual parts of a person's subjective life as it is felt by the individual. Occult disciplines also try to do this.
Re: No Spiritual Construct/Matrix
I believe your belief is correct. The more I think about it, the less individual constructs seem limiting. They seem to do just that: explain things. I would much prefer to do, learn, and develop than merely stagnate in inaction. It's also true that each belief system needs to cater the individual. If it works for that person, it's plenty good enough for that person, and the world is right, the sun still rises in the east, and french toast is still a pretty good breakfast. Of course, you're also right that extensive slaps in the face or evidence to support make some things hard not to believe. And it would be excellent with more thoughts on the subject.