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I'm putting this thread here, because I frankly don't know where it belongs. I hope that's ok with the admin.
This is a question I've asked elsewhere, and mostly gotten "fluffy-bunny-spun-sugar-with-glitter-on-top" answers. I hope you can give me a better one.

What would you do if someone you have to deal with on a daily basis treated you badly (verbally), without wanting to se what he's doing. Sort of an adult with the ego and behavior of a 15-year old living with mom.

Kicking his ass out the door is not the answer (yet); too much debt, not enough money, and a young daughter.

I've moved this topic to the 'Off Topic' page as it really isnt an occult question per se. That said, there are plenty of occult options to dealing with this, and I'll move it back if needs be.

That out of the way, if I were you I'd be avoiding this person you dont get on with. You say that you have to deal with him on a daily basis, but are there any options for you to not deal with him, such as changing your daily schedule so as not to have to meet up with him?

Visenda,

I would ask him what I had done to upset him, and if there was a good reason then simply try and smooth it over, reason with them, clear the air and move on.

However if your met with a personal attack, like them saying "nothing, I just don't like you" or something to that degree, I would simply say "Ok, well although the feeling isn't strictly mutal I will stay out of your way as much as possible, but threaten me again and perhaps we could take this some place where I am not going to loose my job and settle it that way"...

At School I was bullied by a group of guys a year higher than me... I joined the same boxing club as them and had each of them in the ring with me one after the other (different days) and beat each of them in a fair fight... (However I took some Isrealie martial arts and Jeet Kune Do for 4 months prior).

LoS
Steve

It sounds really tough, I hope you're doing ok. If this is an ongoing thing, I'd strongly recommend some kind of psychiatric treatment for everyone involved; him, you, and your daughter. Abusive relationships can be a mask for deeper psychological issues, and it really is in everyone's best interests to address that as soon as possible, and exposure to toxic people and toxic relationships on a daily basis can be really harmful, in a lasting way if not addressed somehow. You can always walk away from any situation, there may be a price to pay, but is it worth more than you and your daughter's health? If it looks like the abuse could turn physical, or if there isn't a sincere effort to repair the relationship from both sides, just get out.

For improving things, it sounds to me like you could benefit from setting some boundaries, and holding him to respecting them. Detaching from the abuse can help a lot too, you can step out of the abuse cycle, takes a bucketload of compassion but you don't feel anywhere near as bad. You might find it happening less when you stop giving him the reaction he's looking for. Basically, teach him to grow up emotionally, just like you would a child. Be honest and tell him when he upsets you, and ask him to change his behaviour. If he refuses, then take action. Walking away from the situation temporarily can be a good way to show that you're not having any of it, with fair warning. Take your daughter and go visit a friend for a couple of hours, or stay with family for a couple days. If things turn bad, don't hesitate to involve the police. Above all, look after yourself and your daughter, and always remember that you can't fix a person, you can only show them how to fix themselves. Don't take responsibility for him, encourage him do that for himself.

I don't really have any occult advice on the topic, mindfulness meditation is good in this situation, better if both of you do it. Some kind of protection wouldn't be a bad idea either.. Mostly though, I'd recommend studying up on the psychology of toxic relationships and maybe personality disorders, I think it'll really help you get a better understanding of the situation, which will give you ideas on what you can do to improve it.

Obligatory fluffy-bunnyness: Be strong, you can get through this.

Case:
He's my husband, so I can't avoid him. I deal with him as little as I can without being obviously evasive, because that would definitely set him off.

Since I can't act in the regular world, I am looking for an occult option.

LandOfShadows:
He's acting more and more like a spoiled 15 year-old living with Mom, so I can't say I've done anything at all. We've had several "conversations" about him acting this way, but not getting anywhere. He can't see how what he saya affects others.

Vashta:
He's of the type that would never get psychological help, no matter what. Part of the worst was what I think was a mild depression from being unemployed, but he's working again now. So he's back to "normal", which is still not good. There's no violence involved. If there was, I'd kick him as far as physically possible. He doesn't do boundaries or ultimatums. Then he just ignores them or turns it into an attack on him. If I had the financial possibility to kick him out, I would.

And thanks for the obligatory fluffy-bunnyness

that's a very tricky situation.
the question is in my mind how its effecting your daughter?
staying together for financial reasons strikes me as a mistake.

anyway your question is what would i do. I happen to be quite a manipulative and psychologically abusive person. I would use a range of different techniques to get him in line, different patterns of behavior that would be subtly callibrated to each moment.
for example, reframing of the situation to create guilt (i'm very good at reinterpretation of things) then just as they get a twinge of guilt (you have to watch them carefully) change tact to accept the blame yourself and act depressed to the point of writing off your whole life as worthless.
In short i would lead them by the nose through a range of emotional states until they say things like "i'm a horrible person." then love bomb them to reward thier low self esteem and lock it in place. then present them with a way of clawing back some self worth (ie doing what you want them to do).

but then can't recomend it. it wont really make you happy, and i have a personality 'disorder' lol

So far, it doesn't seem to affect her, and I hope it won't before it's resolved.
The finacial reasons are a number of debts in my name which I wouldn't be able to pay off on my own. if it was just me, I'd kick him out and things could go to Hel if they wanted to, but I have to provide properly for her as well.

I've tried smaller attacks during trance work a few times, and they seemed to work although only for a short time and not fully. My technique might need some work, or I need to use a different method.

He doesn't accept guilt, and twists it around to be something I did wrong, and if I cry because of my frustration or otherwise act out, he just gets even more annoyed. He doesn't seem vunerable to manipulation of that kind. We've lived together for 21 years now, so I know him pretty well.

Last time we had a real arument, I asked him if he was pushing me away, and that seemed to 'take', since he said we'd discuss that one night after Lilith had fallen asleep. And when he says it that way, I know he doesn't want to talk about it at all, he's just trying to chock me back into 'behaving'.

That really does sound like hell on earth, it sounds to me a lot like he's suffering from a personality disorder - have you read much on Borderline Personality Disorder or Narcissistic Personality Disorder? I know that with BPD, it can make a person act just like you described. If you look up the symptoms, you might find yourself saying "Holy crap, did they write this about him specifically?".

It's a tough one because, on the one hand you loved him enough to marry him, but on the other, you don't deserve to be treated like that. The thing with personality disorders is that it's not an active choice on his part - I don't think he actually wakes up in the morning thinking "Hey, how can I make her life hell today?" It comes up in reaction to emotional stimuli. A person with BPD is like a person with no "skin" emotionally - just raw nerves. Anything, literally anything can set off an episode. Where you or I might say "Hey, it's ok I know you didn't mean to be late, let's get going" they might react more like "What the fuck? I've been here forever, why were you late? who are you sleeping with? don't you love me anymore? why do you hate me? This is fucking unforgivable" - And then never, ever, ever forget the incident. Reactions that seem, frankly, ridiculous. I don't know so much about the other personality disorders, I'm using a BPD reaction as the example.

I dunno, if he's refusing treatment, well, I know I would leave. I guess you could try something like a working to send him dreams or thoughts that force him to take a good hard look at himself, forcing him to take responsibility and accountability for himself (because I think that's what he's doing by the sound of it - trying to make you accept guilt for absolutely everything), but he might like that even less. The key to recovery from a personality disorder is in accepting that your behaviour is wrong and taking every possible step to change your behaviour - he won't get better if he doesn't want it with every fibre of his being. A personality disorder is a term for what is, essentially, the way a person is wired. It usually stems from, for example, a fear of abandonment that's stuck with them since childhood, or a complete lack of emotional validation, etc etc. As such, it's programmed deep into his psyche, and he's the only person who can rewrite it.

Honesty is, I believe, the best weapon here ;P A few heartfelt words can turn the tide, but it does tend to come back again. The problem is that it's so pervasive - it's wired into virtually every synapse, you can push it away for a time, but unless it's taken out at the roots, it will come back. I guess you could try something with the intention of working on the root problems, but it'll be hard without his participation - for which he has to accept that he has a problem.

I honestly think you should run If you divorce him, will you be able to get child support from him?

Sorry, I'm still not coming up with anything particularly occult here, I'll have a think about that a bit more later but for now I need to get back to work, lunch is almost over. I recommend looking up the symptoms for BPD and NPD, can lead to some useful sources of information on how to handle a person with these problems.

Narcissistic sounds a lot closer than Borderline. But I suspect he's just an egotistical asshole, since he's able to express sympathy for other people, he doesn't exaggerate his achievements or talents, and he doesn't just think about himself all the time. He's ok to be around most of the time, and he's good with our daughter. It's just when he lashes out I really hate him, aand when he doesn't behave like an adult. In some areas he hasn't really matured in these 21 years, he's regressed.

Taking responsibility and accountability for himself is something he does only in part. He doesn't clean up after himself and he expects me to. The only reason I do it, is that Lilith doesn't deserve to live in a dump. The only reason he mows the lawn, washes the car and clears the snow, is that I'm not physically able to anymore. I used to have to help with that as well.

He's always been like this, it's just escalated the last 6-7 years. The only reason we got married was because of the mortgage on the house. We were living together for 16 years before that.

I know I should, and I'm not setting the best example for Lilith, but for now, I have to hold on until I have a driver's license (which isn't as far away as it used to be), and I get those debts sorted some way or another. Men here are forced to pay a certian amount of child support, but it wouldn't cover the debt.

So as long as I'm unable to kick him out and still get to stay here, I need something to kick his ass when needed.

When it comes to down to asskicking, I'll help of course. I just waited to be asked to be polite

As previously stated; Feel free

And thanks

Visenda wrote: He doesn't accept guilt, and twists it around to be something I did wrong, and if I cry because of my frustration or otherwise act out, he just gets even more annoyed. He doesn't seem vunerable to manipulation of that kind. We've lived together for 21 years now, so I know him pretty well.
Last time we had a real arument, I asked him if he was pushing me away, and that seemed to 'take', since he said we'd discuss that one night after Lilith had fallen asleep. And when he says it that way, I know he doesn't want to talk about it at all, he's just trying to chock me back into 'behaving'.

it sounds like he's beaten you to the punch on that game lol.
yes well, its hard for me to say because he sounds a lot like me, but if he is like me then the truth is you will not be happy until you get him out of your life. the tragedy of it is is that being near incapable of giving love without manipulation and cruelty doesnt mean that you desire it from others any less or feel less deserving of it. its doubtless not escaped his attention either the sickness of the relationship; you can leave him, he cannot. that's his punnishment.

I'm well aware that I should kick his ass out the door, but right now it isn't possible.

Just a shot in the dark here.
If he's behaving like a fiteen year old, have you tried getting his mother to gang up on him with you?
I mean, she has or had to put up with him and his father. Could be valuable support if she's a decent person herself.

She's a very nice person, but too week to deal with either of them

I'd go with disconnecting from it, just be all "Whatever, sweetie". It can be really tricky to find just the right frame of mind, but once you find it and hold it, you could be in the middle of a riot and calm as a gentle sea breeze I had a partner who could be similarly abusive for a while, and that was the most effective way I found to get the point across. Watching the rage just fizzle out into sheepish disillusionment is kinda fun too

The relationship dynamic is that he demands your fear, obligation, or guilt, and you supply it, which satisfies something in the dark corners at the back of his mind. Cut off the supply. He won't get nearly as much out of it as he craves to, and there's a good chance he'll do it less, plus your peace of mind is improved by it. Like I said though, takes a bucketload of compassion ^_^

I'm moving towards that, and it's driving him nuts For him it' s a sport to get me angry, and when it doesn't work, he amps it up or gets really pissed off. I'm doing my best to let it run off me like water off a goose, but it's not always easy.