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Does anyone have experience in hiding their practices? Everyone in my family, save for my dad who is thankfully my primary guardian, is very religious. It's hard enough for me to get out of being dragged to church every Sunday; all hell would break loose if my mother saw an alter in my room. Things will be even more difficult next year when I head to college and start living in a dorm. [crymore]
What can I do to practice and hide from my family?

You don't necessarily need an altar for magical practice. In fact what you need most is yourself and maybe some trivial things like a piece of paper, pen, maybe a candle and a stick or a knife if you feel like it.

If you want to buy something like statues or stones, say you want them for decoration. I don't know how strict your parents are, but if it comes down to something like dragon statues or something like that you could pretend to be into the fantasy genre. Buy additionally some things like Lord of the ring books or stuff, that should be enough cover. Also you can use that for magick practice or at least inspiration (I found Tolkins work very inspiring).

For practice itself, minor things like Asana or cabbalistic cross can be covered as yoga or anti-stress exercise. I also started practicing when I was rather young, my parents weren't really strict, but curious so I covered all those little daily rituals as yoga practice. Of course you have to keep things like recitations or incantations on a low sound level and I guess for bigger rituals you have to wait until you are alone or you could perform them on a mental platform (or astral temple, if you prefer that term) or outside.

I don't know how exactly your situation in the dorm is. Of course it is good if you have your own room at least. To keep questions at bay you could simply give a glimpse of what you are doing. When I moved into my dorm room I took my liber sekhmet in the first night and did the incantation 3 times in a row. Since the walls are rather thin, I was surprised that I didn't hear a word after that. Anyway, I had my space when I needed it and besides some strange questions or looks and maybe a bunch of people avoiding you you should have enough room and peace to practice.

I hope that gave you some helpful input.

Ramscha

Hello Twi,

As a beginner, it's best for you to focus on learning, on mediation techniques, building basic skills and very simple rituals for which you don't need anything but your mind. A good way to approach a magical practice is to build it up over time like a steam roller that is on a path and starts off slow, but picks up momentum. So, I would say, don't try to make a Circle of Art and start evocation in the basement!

If this is the approach you should take there are a number of people who can advise you on the Forum and there are many threads with good resources here.

Asurendra,
I'm very interested in what you said about learning, on mediation techniques, building basic skills and very simple rituals.. As I study different schools of thought and grimoires I'm often overwhelmed, and the reason I think is because I just don't know where to start. The only ritual I'm familiar with is the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram. Other than that ritual, I practice meditation and attempt lucid dreaming nightly. I've experimented with sigils a little bit, and a few evocations, but ultimately I'm just not sure about what I'm doing.
What are some of the useful simple rituals that could be practiced? (Obviously rituals would differ with schools of thought)
Do you use and have any favorite mantras for meditation?
What would you say in your opinion are essential basic skills that are needed to integrate magick into daily life?
Hmm and I have a broad question for anyone to answer..
What does it mean to practice magick? emphasis on practice. I can read about it all day..

Wait until you grow up and get your own place. Then you can do whatever you want to.

Hello,

I saw that your questions were not answered, and even though they were asked of another, I thought perhaps I would take the liberty of responding.

I'm very interested in what you said about learning, on mediation techniques, building basic skills and very simple rituals.. As I study different schools of thought and grimoires I'm often overwhelmed, and the reason I think is because I just don't know where to start. The only ritual I'm familiar with is the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram.

Actually this is a wonderful start. When one begins many magical systems (such as the Golden Dawn) one begins with the LBRP. In fact, this ritual has been called one of the most important, as many aspects utilized within it are those one will be needing throughout magic (ceremonial magic anyway). It strengthens ones visualization skills, and gets one familiar with the most basic symbols. If you study what these symbols mean, and the "how" and "why" behind these symbols used, one can learn much. I advice keeping a journal as well, this can be done easily enough.

Other than that ritual, I practice meditation and attempt lucid dreaming nightly. I've experimented with sigils a little bit, and a few evocations, but ultimately I'm just not sure about what I'm doing.

Look into the Lesser Ritual of the Hexagram as well. I suggest you simply study this ritual at first, as it is a little more advanced, and usually given to a higher grade than say a Zelator within the GD system. The study of it though shall go far into further understanding of the symbols. Really, what one is doing at first within any system, is learning a symbolic language. Once one obtains a basic grasp on these sets of symbols, what you are "doing" become much more clear, as well as what the affects may be.As already suggested, at this point simply build a firm knowledge foundation through study.

I wouldn't worry too much at first about sigils, and and especially evocations, these will come in later. Wait on these (especially evocation) until one gains a basic foundation first. Unless it is something rather simple. It is always wise to not do something without understand what it is you're doing. It is better to create your own rituals you understand, than perform one's you are clueless about.

What are some of the useful simple rituals that could be practiced? (Obviously rituals would differ with schools of thought)
Do you use and have any favorite mantras for meditation?

LBRP until perfected, and can be done without referencing. One can advance with this into performing it "astrally" as well. Do not think one must learn and practice several rituals in order to begin. Quality over quantity. Stick to one school or system, at least at first. This allows you to digest the symbols without undue confusion.

There are MANY mediation techniques. The best to begin with is simply the four-fold breath, and centering. Simply learn to relax, this is very important. Asana is another good thing to begin with, as this teaches the body to quiet itself, and not distract you. It also teaches one self discipline. Begin Asana (sitting still within a particular yoga like position) for as long as you comfortably can, usually this is 5 minutes, and then work your way up to an hour. A test within the A.'.A.'. is to finally be able to sit perfectly still for an hour with a saucer balanced upon the head filled to the rim with water, and not spilling a drop!

Also, take up visualization techniques, such as Pathworking, this can be done with the Tarot Trumps. All these things BTW, can be done without too much suspicion. Meditation is often used to simply reduce stress, and can easily be accepted. Likewise, visualization is easily done. Do not worry about Mantras at this point, as that is advanced and deals with stilling the mind completely of thought, a much more advanced area.

What would you say in your opinion are essential basic skills that are needed to integrate magick into daily life?

Well, of course the freedom to do the work itself. If one lives with others of a like mind, or alone it is easiest. I am not sure exactly what you mean by "essential basic skills", that may help one integrate magick within their lives. I am taking it you mean what skills are most essential to perform magic in one's life? Concentration is vastly important, and anything that helps you in this area is vital practice. Self discipline is also very important, and any sort of therapy. One can easily become deluded, and many that are drawn to the occult are seeking an escape and can become obsessed with the "image" or fancy picture of themselves, rather than the true goal which is dissolution of illusion, and self discovery.

Hmm and I have a broad question for anyone to answer..
What does it mean to practice magick? emphasis on practice. I can read about it all day..

Magick is the science and art of causing change in conformity with the Will. This was Crowley's definition, and it is very good. In this light ANY act whatsoever is "magical", but in the end, what it means is to grow. We wish to understand ourselves, and delve into the inner world in order to "Know Thyself". One thing most fail to realize is exactly how deep that statement is. If the "self" is actually connected to the Higher, of which we are a spark and expression, then to "Know Thyself" is also to seek understanding of all that is. The main goal of magic is usually accepted (at least within High Magick) as the unity of the Higher Self, or "God" with Man, or the Lower self (microcosom, or "little world", with macrocosom "larger world"). You seek to create a dramatic change in consciousness, which is a new way of looking at reality (and yourself). One in effect transforms the personality, stripping it of the illusion of duality, and begins to see themselves as part of the greater whole (HGA). When this happens, one has become an Adept, and understands the True Will, which is a whole other topic in and of itself.

Lord Ferocia

Wow, that post is right up there with Silver Ravenwolf's book on teenage witchcraft. You just gave instructions to a minor knowing full well that it goes against the parents wishes. Lie to your parents, hide what you're doing - cuz he's going to have to. Great advice. We don't know these kids. We don't know who's going to end up in the ER from a severe beating for following this type of advice but the conversation I had with a 30 year old you found unwise? Really?

There's also the option of finding the occult in Christianity. Like practically every culture that has merged into Christianity did. You'd be hard pressed to find Appalachian healers who didn't use a Bible, and look wholly Christian at face value, but their works are just as much magic as any other. Find a way to merge it together into a syncretic system that looks wholly conformist, but to you, is not at all. Look into Christo-paganism, or early Celtic Christianity, or Appalachian Granny Magic, or Cunning Folk, or Santeria, etc.

RoseRed wrote:Wow, that post is right up there with Silver Ravenwolf's book on teenage witchcraft. You just gave instructions to a minor knowing full well that it goes against the parents wishes. Lie to your parents, hide what you're doing - cuz he's going to have to. Great advice. We don't know these kids. We don't know who's going to end up in the ER from a severe beating for following this type of advice but the conversation I had with a 30 year old you found unwise? Really?

So are you suggesting it is somehow "wrong" to practice magic? Meditation and visualization practice, and the LBRP can hardly be seen as anything negative. Obviously she is already practicing, and reading books. I hardly see the suggestion of how to proceed harmful, or comparable to teaching one to do illegal drugs or whatever else you're suggesting. I have no idea of her age, and no business to dictate what she can and cannot ask, nor do you. I can choose what I think is best to share, and what advice to give. If I do not explain the best route for a beginner like this, who will? Someone else who is irresponsible and less informed?


LF

So are you suggesting it is somehow "wrong" to practice magic?

Not at all. That would be extremely hypocritical of me since I do practice magic.

My point is that you're speaking to a minor who has already stated that they're going against their parents wishes.

Perhaps, I see this from a different point of view. I have a teenager and if some person/stranger on the internet advised her to lie to me and hide what she was doing I'd go through the fucking roof. It's also a matter of respect - respecting the rules of the roof that's over your head. I'm not ignorant enough to think that kids aren't going to do what they want to but I will not be party to influencing those decisions. My views on this topic have changed over the years. At one time I was the teenager lying and sneaking things in the house. Now I have one. Different perspective and all that.

The other part of this is that I have seen the situation play out on another forum where the minor child was caught after following advice to do what they wanted and ended up in the hospital from that beating.

I truly do understand your point about kids asking questions and giving them an idea of where to start so they don't do something utterly stupid or harmful. It's just that at this point in my life - someone else will have to give them that advice - as you did. (I do think it was good advice, for the record).

My point is that you're speaking to a minor who has already stated that they're going against their parents wishes.

The OP is 18, which makes them an adult.

Besides if you believe it is a problem for minors to receive information you have a hard time when they can buy books freely, as well as simply read the site. Your argument and lashing out at me is silly.

Many have reasons to "hide" or otherwise keep private their involvement with the occult, besides being a minor.

LF

Lord Ferocia wrote:

My point is that you're speaking to a minor who has already stated that they're going against their parents wishes.

The OP is 18, which makes them an adult.

Besides if you believe it is a problem for minors to receive information you have a hard time when they can buy books freely, as well as simply read the site. Your argument and lashing out at me is silly.

Many have reasons to "hide" or otherwise keep private their involvement with the occult, besides being a minor.

LF

Depending on the law it could also be 21, in the states he would still be a minor, same goes for Japan.
I agree mostly with your other point but the biological age alone does not make one an adult.

Ramscha

Depending on the law it could also be 21, in the states he would still be a minor, same goes for Japan.
I agree mostly with your other point but the biological age alone does not make one an adult.

So then are you suggesting we have a system in place where we can first verify the "acceptable age" within various countries, before giving advice? Seems rather a petty point, and silly if you ask me. Especially considering how one of almost any age could simply read the material on the site without oversight. If you both feel this is some sort of "danger" and issue, perhaps take it up with the sites administrator about implementing an age limit.

I am not here to figure out when someone is considered an "adult" (for me it is 18) in Japan or otherwise. I am here to provide magical teaching. If a minor is here, and has abusive parents who may send them to the ER for reading or practicing such material, I feel they have a much greater problem than who is dispensing occult advice.

No where on this site was it suggested we should verify if they are "adults", or what specific information these "minors" may be given. Nor does it seem many on here even checked (i.e. Rosebud) the age of the OP before jumping to conclusions and lashing out. I think of course the point is to always provide ANY seeker safe, sane and responsible advice period. Much is out of our control otherwise in respects to their home environment etc.

LF

So then are you suggesting we have a system in place where we can first verify the "acceptable age" within various countries, before giving advice? Seems rather a petty point, and silly if you ask me. Especially considering how one of almost any age could simply read the material on the site without oversight. If you both feel this is some sort of "danger" and issue, perhaps take it up with the sites administrator about implementing an age limit.

No, I did not say that. I simply hook on your statement that the person which is 18 is automatically an adult which is in itself not a general valid claim due to various factors which where partly already mentioned by us both (law, personal development, etc.). I did not refer to any kind of control meachnism nor legal something. [wink]

Lord Ferocia wrote:

My point is that you're speaking to a minor who has already stated that they're going against their parents wishes.

The OP is 18, which makes them an adult.

Besides if you believe it is a problem for minors to receive information you have a hard time when they can buy books freely, as well as simply read the site. Your argument and lashing out at me is silly.

Many have reasons to "hide" or otherwise keep private their involvement with the occult, besides being a minor.

LF

Relax bro! Rosebed was just expressing a concern. One that you might do well to consider after you're finished experiencing whatever waves of emotion and indignation you are dealing with. Don't take yourself so seriously, huh?

Relax bro! Rosebed was just expressing a concern. One that you might do well to consider after you're finished experiencing whatever waves of emotion and indignation you are dealing with. Don't take yourself so seriously, huh?

Oh I am perfectly relaxed.

LF

But since we already strifed the term of adulthood, let me loose some lines regarding adolescence from the view of depth psychology.

The process of adolescence begins after puperty is finished. The process of adolescence is synonymously for the individuation of a human being which roughly marks the process where self-awareness and the distinction of the own personality from others. The "others" are mainly mother and father and the seperation from the family, their thinking and maxim is one of the most important parameter on the way of the growing person to the state of a respected and socially recognized individual person.

Other important milestones are for example the learning of responsibility, foresight and providence as well as the ability to work something out without the consequence of direct reward (like you did as a child: Go to the pot, get a candy. peeing on the carpet --> smack).

The adolescence can last roughly until the age of 30, some finish it much earlier and of course others may never arrive there.
You can see that when people between the age of 20 and 30 start to look back on their own "phases", being part of subcultures and scenes, groups and gangs with a certain distance.

Ramscha

Ramscha wrote:But since we already strifed the term of adulthood, let me loose some lines regarding adolescence from the view of depth psychology.

The process of adolescence begins after puperty is finished. The process of adolescence is synonymously for the individuation of a human being which roughly marks the process where self-awareness and the distinction of the own personality from others. The "others" are mainly mother and father and the seperation from the family, their thinking and maxim is one of the most important parameter on the way of the growing person to the state of a respected and socially recognized individual person.

Other important milestones are for example the learning of responsibility, foresight and providence as well as the ability to work something out without the consequence of direct reward (like you did as a child: Go to the pot, get a candy. peeing on the carpet --> smack).

The adolescence can last roughly until the age of 30, some finish it much earlier and of course others may never arrive there.
You can see that when people between the age of 20 and 30 start to look back on their own "phases", being part of subcultures and scenes, groups and gangs with a certain distance.

Ramscha

And this is important how? So now we must figure out if one is considered an adolescent before explaining anything about magic here? What are you trying to say? I can't figure out what the "concern" is here.

LF

Lord Ferocia wrote:
And this is important how? So now we much figure out if one is considered an adolescent before explaining anything about magic here? What are you trying to say? I can't figure out what the "concern" is here.

LF

I thought we already had plenty of advice how to cover your activity in the closet. And what this has to do with magic?
I don't know your opinion about the matter but I think the course of ones personal development has very much to with magickal practice, if not everything.

Ramscha

I thought we already had plenty of advice how to cover your activity in the closet. And what this has to do with magic?
I don't know your opinion about the matter but I think the course of ones personal development has very much to with magickal practice, if not everything.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

LF

Actually in the US that is a valid claim that 18 is an adult. In the US 18 is the legal age of signing documents, joining the military, entering into contracts without parental consent, and marriage without consent, as well as legal freedom to leave your residence without backlash of legality with or without parental consent. 18 is the legal age of consent in the US. The only exceptions are 19 to buy tobacco and 21 to buy alcohol. You can buy guns legally at 18. Nothing about being 18 is a minor, in any legal sense in the US. Legal consent without parental objection starts at 16, with sex, 18 with everything else except alcohol and tobacco. Even though the state law of Alabama says 21 is an adult, and you're not allowed to view porn or enter into contracts until 21, they let you at 18, because you take a company to federal court and be acknowledged as an adult at 18, and they can't afford to fight you on that. So even if your state law says 21, go out at 18 and do it anyway, because it's federally recognized as the adult age on paper. That 18 is a minor is just wrong, in a legal sense. Plain and simple.


And in the context of the OP, the ops parents would have no legal backing to pursue a civil allegation against you for providing information on the OP's post, because the OP is 18, so regardless of the broad span of what is or isn't a minor in the US (it's 18), the OP being 18 makes our information, information given to an adult in the court of law. You're not risking anything by giving them information, and the OP is old enough to simply walk away from his family if he so chooses.

Aardvark wrote:Actually in the US that is a valid claim that 18 is an adult. In the US 18 is the legal age of signing documents, joining the military, entering into contracts without parental consent, and marriage without consent, as well as legal freedom to leave your residence without backlash of legality with or without parental consent. 18 is the legal age of consent in the US. The only exceptions are 19 to buy tobacco and 21 to buy alcohol. You can buy guns legally at 18. Nothing about being 18 is a minor, in any legal sense in the US. Legal consent without parental objection starts at 16, with sex, 18 with everything else except alcohol and tobacco. Even though the state law of Alabama says 21 is an adult, and you're not allowed to view porn or enter into contracts until 21, they let you at 18, because you take a company to federal court and be acknowledged as an adult at 18, and they can't afford to fight you on that. So even if your state law says 21, go out at 18 and do it anyway, because it's federally recognized as the adult age on paper. That 18 is a minor is just wrong, in a legal sense. Plain and simple.


And in the context of the OP, the ops parents would have no legal backing to pursue a civil allegation against you for providing information on the OP's post, because the OP is 18, so regardless of the broad span of what is or isn't a minor in the US (it's 18), the OP being 18 makes our information, information given to an adult in the court of law. You're not risking anything by giving them information, and the OP is old enough to simply walk away from his family if he so chooses.

Finally some sanity. Thank you, very well said, and appreciated.

LF

First off, I wasn't lashing out I was explaining something calmly. No one has to agree with me. It really is that simple.

I find a difference between someone coming across information and giving it to them directly in conversation.

I'm sorry if that's too simple for you to understand.

In activist circles they say, "Your silence will not protect you."

I'm not particularly quiet around here.

These are dead serious questions, though:

Is there really something wrong with respecting the rules of the house that you live in and respecting those that are taking care of you?

Is there something wrong with not telling a child to lie to their parents or not telling them to sneak around and do things that would cause them to freak out?

Do you personally know anyone who was dragged off as a minor to have an exorcism because they did these things? I have.

Have you seen the results of a severe beating from Fundamentalist parents because of Occult activities? I have.



No one needs to agree with my decision to tell people to wait until they grow up and move out before lying, sneaking and hiding what they're doing. My reasons are my own and I've shared several of them here. I understand that this opinion is not what most people that ask these questions want to hear but it is MY opinion. Besides, there's plenty of people around that have no problem answering these questions. So, what exactly is the problem here?