I'm sure they do to some extent, just I'm really quite certain that anyone who tells you that you can make the whole ongoing system of consequences of past living, or being in a wheelchair, or people pigeonholing you on the way you look, will go away just because you deny their consensus reality or tell yourself that you've completely absolved yourself of their taking your authority - it's your authority now dammit and they can't have it!!.....they have a few good months before the whole bubble pops, everyone who hadn't tried it before realizes its bogus, and their five star ratings from those who got fuzzy feelings from their first reads start getting replaced by one and two star reviews by people who say "Yep, my boss just gave me an impossible task and hung it around my neck and now I'm out of my apartment! No negative premonitions or even pondering on my part!" or "After three months with this book I found my girlfriend sandwiched between two guys - I've been as trusting as ever and as we agreed those two guys are all hers now! Thanks positive thinking!".
So to export the snake oil back to the 19th century flee markets there's good reason to say that there's a certain....oh....'cap' on how much positive thinking changes life, similarly there's a cap on how much BS you can ingest and refute with positive thoughts until one day....geez.....you feel like you just about got possessed by Dennis Leary or Andrew Dice Clay, and hence you'd never know whether it works or not because wow... the things you say and think those days...
The question then comes - the line between they physical - ie. nonverbal communication that people just register with their five senses and give you preference for having a positive disposition, verses the actual astral/mental realms and what's actually possible with the law of attraction vs. how quickly something wonderful you're attracting can be blow away by getting properly shit on by life and trying to handle what that's doing to your sense of self.
Does anyone think they've kinda found the barrier within 10-20% either way? What do you think the practical demarcations are of mental/astral influence? I know this is a tough one, I'm just trying to learn how not to beat myself up for every thought that doesn't wax optimistic or claim full
'Your thoughts create your reality'
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Cybernetic_Jazz
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'Your thoughts create your reality'
You don't have to do a thing perfect, just relentlessly.
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ExCineribus
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- Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:24 am
Re: 'Your thoughts create your reality'
I think there is much danger in approaching it from a purely spiritual realm. Perspective and state of mind can be powerful tools. Whether it is finding your inner muse that day, keeping in mind and progressively working towards a goal, or just adopting a cheerful (or dreary) demeanor - these states of mind can create very real changes in how we go about our days.
Would I go so far as to say "The Secret"/"Law of Attraction" applies in absolute terms (i.e. just thinking about a dream home)? No, I would certainly not go that far. Naturally, there are certain elements which are clearly outside of our direct control. No matter how hard you visualize certain things they will not come to pass -- in this life, at least. This is intuitive by the simple example of visualizing something fantastical like riding upon a unicorn or slaying a dragon. How often I have wanted to escape this mundane life and enter my magical worlds! While one can direct dreams in this manner, to some degree and with practice, they can in no ways think or will a unicorn or dragon into existence.
Still, as you noted, visualization techniques are powerful - and perhaps there is some truth to the Hermetic and Rosicrucian practices of applying that towards altering reality (in degrees), as mentioned earlier. It is a way to attempt to direct the will and frame of mind, but these things are fickle and difficult to hold on to. I am personally not sure we are meant to. At any rate, no matter how well we do, alas... rain will still fall - as rain will - and seasons will come and go in their time.
There are people who claim, of course, that they have done amazing things just by continued visualization. I would purport here that this is more likely the case of a determined will, a boat setting its sail with the destination clearly in mind and not deviating from where the compass shows. Have a listen to 'The Strangest Secret' by Earl Nightingale on YouTube (available here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62DqsD2s5V8). It is my favorite quick talk on an earlier incarnation of "The Law of Attraction" and "The Secret", long before they were too terribly monetized and established in popular culture. Admittedly, Earl Nightingale makes what I consider a mistake in assuming that a person's financial situation is a big indicator in how successful they are... but he makes great points about the importance of a focused will - and how in that way we become what we think about.
With this in mind, there is a pragmatic way that helps people accomplish real change in their life that is often applied in the business world. This revolves on setting SMART goals. Goals should be specific, have a measurable component, be actionable or assignable, be realistic, and time-constrained. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMART_criteria
There are many aspects of personal wellness that can be reflected upon as a basis for creating goals which can positively impact a person's life. Physical health and fitness, Professional, Social (Family, Friendship, Community), Spiritual and Moral, Financial, Educational, and Recreational. Without a doubt, these are things anyone reading this can reflect upon and find actionable things they can do to improve.
There are some great esoteric points, of course, that "we become what we think about" (i.e. we are what we eat, and so on). That is like saying we are what we do from a pragmatic perspective... as in if you watch a horror movie we should not be surprised to get scared. But in respect to real world effects, it is also clear that it requires real action and a real goal.
And this brings me to one of the most interesting points of this whole thing... sorry for it being so wordy. Setting goals based entirely on what we want - while worthwhile - should probably not be our sole criteria in setting goals. We should also consider what will be of benefit to others - how our actions affect others - and of course we should consider what God wants. A person in a boat is going to have a much better time when rowing with the current and with the sails catching the wind onward. This is one of central themes of the prayer of the great Teacher, and to be content with our daily bread - not to haphazardly covet all things for ourselves. We should try to direct our will in accordance with the divine Will, inasmuch as we are able. When our focus changes from inward to outward, it radically alters what is important. We find some simple things are much more important - and so we are much more content (indeed, the glass overflows!). We quickly see that the things we are often taught are important in life (nice house and car, and so on), while some of it is certainly nice, it also tends to add so much unnecessary maintenance and worries to life. This is a great contradiction - when the spirit world and the physical world collide. No, the physical world is not all evil, that's not what I'm saying - but this is certainly something that we should keep in mind.
I hope these comments were interesting and helped / gave you some things to think about!
Would I go so far as to say "The Secret"/"Law of Attraction" applies in absolute terms (i.e. just thinking about a dream home)? No, I would certainly not go that far. Naturally, there are certain elements which are clearly outside of our direct control. No matter how hard you visualize certain things they will not come to pass -- in this life, at least. This is intuitive by the simple example of visualizing something fantastical like riding upon a unicorn or slaying a dragon. How often I have wanted to escape this mundane life and enter my magical worlds! While one can direct dreams in this manner, to some degree and with practice, they can in no ways think or will a unicorn or dragon into existence.
Still, as you noted, visualization techniques are powerful - and perhaps there is some truth to the Hermetic and Rosicrucian practices of applying that towards altering reality (in degrees), as mentioned earlier. It is a way to attempt to direct the will and frame of mind, but these things are fickle and difficult to hold on to. I am personally not sure we are meant to. At any rate, no matter how well we do, alas... rain will still fall - as rain will - and seasons will come and go in their time.
There are people who claim, of course, that they have done amazing things just by continued visualization. I would purport here that this is more likely the case of a determined will, a boat setting its sail with the destination clearly in mind and not deviating from where the compass shows. Have a listen to 'The Strangest Secret' by Earl Nightingale on YouTube (available here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62DqsD2s5V8). It is my favorite quick talk on an earlier incarnation of "The Law of Attraction" and "The Secret", long before they were too terribly monetized and established in popular culture. Admittedly, Earl Nightingale makes what I consider a mistake in assuming that a person's financial situation is a big indicator in how successful they are... but he makes great points about the importance of a focused will - and how in that way we become what we think about.
With this in mind, there is a pragmatic way that helps people accomplish real change in their life that is often applied in the business world. This revolves on setting SMART goals. Goals should be specific, have a measurable component, be actionable or assignable, be realistic, and time-constrained. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMART_criteria
There are many aspects of personal wellness that can be reflected upon as a basis for creating goals which can positively impact a person's life. Physical health and fitness, Professional, Social (Family, Friendship, Community), Spiritual and Moral, Financial, Educational, and Recreational. Without a doubt, these are things anyone reading this can reflect upon and find actionable things they can do to improve.
There are some great esoteric points, of course, that "we become what we think about" (i.e. we are what we eat, and so on). That is like saying we are what we do from a pragmatic perspective... as in if you watch a horror movie we should not be surprised to get scared. But in respect to real world effects, it is also clear that it requires real action and a real goal.
And this brings me to one of the most interesting points of this whole thing... sorry for it being so wordy. Setting goals based entirely on what we want - while worthwhile - should probably not be our sole criteria in setting goals. We should also consider what will be of benefit to others - how our actions affect others - and of course we should consider what God wants. A person in a boat is going to have a much better time when rowing with the current and with the sails catching the wind onward. This is one of central themes of the prayer of the great Teacher, and to be content with our daily bread - not to haphazardly covet all things for ourselves. We should try to direct our will in accordance with the divine Will, inasmuch as we are able. When our focus changes from inward to outward, it radically alters what is important. We find some simple things are much more important - and so we are much more content (indeed, the glass overflows!). We quickly see that the things we are often taught are important in life (nice house and car, and so on), while some of it is certainly nice, it also tends to add so much unnecessary maintenance and worries to life. This is a great contradiction - when the spirit world and the physical world collide. No, the physical world is not all evil, that's not what I'm saying - but this is certainly something that we should keep in mind.
I hope these comments were interesting and helped / gave you some things to think about!
Last edited by ExCineribus on Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Cybernetic_Jazz
- Magus
- Posts: 1219
- Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:12 pm
- Location: On a play date with the Universe.
Re: 'Your thoughts create your reality'
Thank you for the reply. Not too long either, well thought out posts really can't be measured like that. 
I actually got into the western mysteries precisely for this reason - ie. after a couple reads through the bible it seemed clear that there was more to it and a very different real story than any Catholic, Protestant, or non-denominational pastors were claiming. I really wanted to do exactly what the bible's meant to motivate you into doing - ie. figure out who God is, how to get to know Him (really Him and Her IMHO), and figure out what the best possible thing is that I can do with my life to edify his agenda in creating me and this place we call Earth to begin with. About the most miserable thing I could do in my own opinion was watch TV every night after work, thumb my arse on the search for meaning, and live every day not only on loop but like a hamster on a treadmill with no answers whatsoever.
One of the books I really loved for the perspectives it had was Meditations on the Tarot - both for the way it wove the new testament and mysticism together with their roots and also it's edification of the Hermetic direction within Christianity. Valentin's lecture on The Emperor was fascinating also in just how much he discussed what I later found in Dion Fortune and Gareth Knight's work - ie. the continuous movement toward relinquishing the authority of the lower self to the higher self which was sacred, ie. vertical, magic such as that of Christ, the apostles, and many thaumaturgists since. I should note that I'm increasingly also finding less and less of a bias toward completely non-Judao-Christian models (so long as the rituals don't directly harm anyone) simply because I think the God of Plato and Pythagoras pretty much sums the core of it all up quite nicely.
I actually got into the western mysteries precisely for this reason - ie. after a couple reads through the bible it seemed clear that there was more to it and a very different real story than any Catholic, Protestant, or non-denominational pastors were claiming. I really wanted to do exactly what the bible's meant to motivate you into doing - ie. figure out who God is, how to get to know Him (really Him and Her IMHO), and figure out what the best possible thing is that I can do with my life to edify his agenda in creating me and this place we call Earth to begin with. About the most miserable thing I could do in my own opinion was watch TV every night after work, thumb my arse on the search for meaning, and live every day not only on loop but like a hamster on a treadmill with no answers whatsoever.
One of the books I really loved for the perspectives it had was Meditations on the Tarot - both for the way it wove the new testament and mysticism together with their roots and also it's edification of the Hermetic direction within Christianity. Valentin's lecture on The Emperor was fascinating also in just how much he discussed what I later found in Dion Fortune and Gareth Knight's work - ie. the continuous movement toward relinquishing the authority of the lower self to the higher self which was sacred, ie. vertical, magic such as that of Christ, the apostles, and many thaumaturgists since. I should note that I'm increasingly also finding less and less of a bias toward completely non-Judao-Christian models (so long as the rituals don't directly harm anyone) simply because I think the God of Plato and Pythagoras pretty much sums the core of it all up quite nicely.
You don't have to do a thing perfect, just relentlessly.