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I can say this Todays laVeyan Satanists oooohhhh Boy,for elite non-conformists they do tend to conform to what the CoS leadership says LaVey meant in the Satanic Bible and that Satanism is in fact a form of atheism and that true Satanists do not believe in a literal Satan.

I got into a conversation with a Laveyan and said:


read his book The Satanic Bible Page 62 :" "Most Satanists do not accept Satan as an anthropomorphic being",in that one line he was saying those Satanists who follow his beliefs do not believe in Satan as an anthropomorphic being,but that there are Satanists that do. So read THE BLACK ARTS. By RICHARD CAVENDISH,where LaVey got some of his ideas from Mr.Cavendish CLEARLY describes Satanists who are theistic and therefore believe in a literal Satan that predated Mr. LaVey! So either way even Mr.LaVey in his own way in his on book said a person that believes in and worships a Literal Satan is a Satanist,but those who follow LaVeyan beliefs do not believe in a literal Satan!

His reply back was :

I own the Black Arts book so what. I told you already I am not into Christianity.

I have come to the conclusion that laVeyans are nothing more then a brainwashed cult of pretenders who only listen to what the CoS Higherups say,and follow a highly cherry picked version of whats in the Satanic Bible,and when you hit them with facts from within the Satanic bible and from sources that Lavey drew upon their automatic response is I don't follow Christianity or that's reverse Christianity!

Nothing but dark spooky pretenders to the throne of Satan that should in fact own up the the fact they are pretenders and a right hand path group now!

[thumbup]

When does Religion become Philosophy?

Where does Philosophy become Religion?

Lines of distinction can get blurred,quite easily,but you should not judge all of Satanism or all Satanists by the substance or lack of it,in one person or conversation. [grin]

There are arsehole Satanists,certainly,but there are arseholes in every walk of life and there are those who cherry pick and cut to suit in every group dynamic.

I don't think all Atheistic Satanists are members of CoS,so it seems quite unfair to label all as sycophantic followers. [thumbup]

Nahemah wrote:When does Religion become Philosophy?

Where does Philosophy become Religion?

Lines of distinction can get blurred,quite easily,but you should not judge all of Satanism or all Satanists by the substance or lack of it,in one person or conversation. [grin]

There are arsehole Satanists,certainly,but there are arseholes in every walk of life and there are those who cherry pick and cut to suit in every group dynamic.

I don't think all Atheistic Satanists are members of CoS,so it seems quite unfair to label all as sycophantic followers. [thumbup]

I didn't mean to infer that they are sycophantic followers but the ones I cave run up on have sure seemed it and use such terms as " Flipirino" one even goes so far as to say: "BTW the official term is Flipirino. According to the Church of Satan forum a "Flipirino" is a person who worships Satan as a being. They were once known as Satan worshippers or Inverse Christians. They are the flip side of the same christian coin thus a "Flipirino"."

His exact words to me, Notice how he says "according to the Church of Satan forum a "Flipirino" is a person who worships Satan as a being." Then goes on to say "They were once known as Satan worshippers or Inverse Christians."


I've done a lot of research of Satanism and never came across the word Flipirino,nor anything pre- laVey that called people who believed in a literal Satan inverse Christians,what I have came across was that Pre- laveyan people who worshipped a literal Satan where where known as both Satan- Worshippers and because they worshipped Satan they where also called Satanist!

To my knowledge all this "Flipirino" word and it's definition is a modern Cos manufactured word!

Please don't take this as a comment towards all who follow the CoS or atheistic satanism, but from my own experience when someone worships their own ego, extreme self-centeredness and extreme douch-baggery are fairly common. I wouldn't worry about it too much, their have their views and you have yours, no point in trying to change that.

There is always going to be keyboard warriors.

Let me quote a piece of literature on this:

"Don't entertain Jesus freaks by debating with them, Logic will get you nowhere, nor will quoting scripture. You present a challenge to those convinced of your malevolence. they secretly nourish the hope that you will submit to a long-winded exchange on theology followed by a harrowing display of diabolical blasphemy. give them nothing."
LaVey - The devils notebook.

I think this is true for a lot of people online. They debate other people not because they want to spread the word, nor because they want to help you understand. But simply to entertain themselves.
Or in the case with a lot of CoS people; Be rude, offensive, bully people and try and belittle others so that they can feel superior.
If you can't be the Uber-menschh you want to be in real life. At least pretend that you are online.

They're just psychic vampires. Parasites that drain your energy.
Don't give them your time. Don't try and help them. Just walk away.

To my knowledge all this "Flipirino" word and it's definition is a modern Cos manufactured word!

That's quite funny.Here we often call folk who switched allegiances 'flippers',it usually applies to football fans,but often has Religious connotations also,via sectarianism.

I tihnk flipperino may be a similar derivative.Tsk,tsk,so not even an innovation really,as far as terms go,lol.

"Don't entertain Jesus freaks by debating with them, Logic will get you nowhere, nor will quoting scripture. You present a challenge to those convinced of your malevolence. they secretly nourish the hope that you will submit to a long-winded exchange on theology followed by a harrowing display of diabolical blasphemy. give them nothing."
LaVey - The devils notebook.

And this still holds true if you take out the Jesus and replace it with any other Religious figure or belief set.I think the operative terms is 'freaks'.Fundies exist in all areas of life,lol. [thumbup]

Shame this tenet seems to be becoming true of some of those who follow LaVey's words also. [evil]

I think this is true for a lot of people online. They debate other people not because they want to spread the word, nor because they want to help you understand. But simply to entertain themselves.
Or in the case with a lot of CoS people; Be rude, offensive, bully people and try and belittle others so that they can feel superior.
If you can't be the Uber-menschh you want to be in real life. At least pretend that you are online.

Yep.I've encountered a few warriors in my time here and elsewhere.
They're not online to learn or share,but purely for their own self aggrandisement and debating them is usually a pleasant enough way to waste your time,if you're trollishly inclined.Other than that,there is not much point trying to engage with such folk,I tend to find. [thumbup]

"Don't entertain Jesus freaks by debating with them, Logic will get you nowhere, nor will quoting scripture. You present a challenge to those convinced of your malevolence. they secretly nourish the hope that you will submit to a long-winded exchange on theology followed by a harrowing display of diabolical blasphemy. give them nothing."
LaVey - The devils notebook.

That's more of a rule of thumb than an absolute. I've 'saved' some Jesus freaks from themselves.

stupidity, pretentiousness, self-deceit, herd conformity. These are some of their own "sins" and yet every one of them I've ever encountered exhibits all of them and more. I have absolutely no time or respect for them.

Frater_VP wrote:Please don't take this as a comment towards all who follow the CoS or atheistic satanism, but from my own experience when someone worships their own ego, extreme self-centeredness and extreme douch-baggery are fairly common. I wouldn't worry about it too much, their have their views and you have yours, no point in trying to change that.

There is an issue with an egocentric worldview, however in some ways it is inevitable. One may base this in the fact that all organisms are self-interested, they only care about their own survival and proliferation. Look at how the brain perceives and analyzes the universe, the only reason that we aren't selfish completely is because we are pack animals and evolved socially to where we are now, far from our natural state. One may also base this in the fact that their perception of the universe is definitive, nothing else is. An egocentric, solipsistic worldview, and saying you are the center of the universe may be a legitimate way to view the world. To require someone to believe in a higher belief system than materialism, based on an argument which they fundamentally disagree with, is in some ways frankly insane unless you have skills in a dialogue like that of Socrates (except in modern times). We can find meaning for ourselves, but not for others. I found LaVeyan Satanism to be liberating, and a fantastic introduction to the occult, but in the end it damaged many people's perceptions of me, and hurt myself more. Some people who fall into this way of thinking only do so because they have been wounded by Christianity, and other religions, and want revenge. It's like the kid who was bullied in highschool becoming a bully from his insecurities. Atheistic Satanism however does not need to be interpreted in an egocentric way, since Atheism is only the rejection of God/Gods, not a particular philosophical worldview.

PitBehemoth wrote:stupidity, pretentiousness, self-deceit, herd conformity. These are some of their own "sins" and yet every one of them I've ever encountered exhibits all of them and more. I have absolutely no time or respect for them.

I just tend to give them a knowing look and go on my way. lol


Sorry I haven't been on in a while but I was floored by a spring cold.

Why does one even argue with such guys? The way you described them is not really inviting for a dialogue

I have to ask a question. First off let me state that I dont know all the in's and outs of Levay's Satanism, so feel free to tell me Im stupid.

But I dont understand why Levay brings "Satan" into the equation at all. If his ideas are based in atheism and that he doesnt believe in any Gods, why call yourself a satanist? I understand that Satan doesnt need to represent the Christian definition of Satan, but in general being a satanist (to me anyway) refers to believing in Satan (or whatever your version of Satan is). Why does he call his philosophy "satanic" if he doesnt believe in satan at all? Why does he label is philosophy as satanic when he doesnt believe in Satan? Why not simply call yourself an atheist with a set of guidelines you abide by?

Maybe its because I grew up in a Christian household, but it seems to me, the term "Satan" represents some form of deity.

I hope this doesnt upset anyone. Im simply trying to understand. To be honest, I view Levays philosophy as a positive one with good values. I just dont get the "satanic" aspect.

He used the name Satan because it would make it look more edgy than it is, more deep than it actually is, and make him the most $$$$.

I personally find it to be very hollow and pointless path to follow, providing nothing more than an egocentric echo chamber that provides no access to any real, tangible power, improvement or benefit.

But to each their own.

Sypheara wrote:He used the name Satan because it would make it look more edgy than it is, more deep than it actually is, and make him the most $$$$.

I personally find it to be very hollow and pointless path to follow, providing nothing more than an egocentric echo chamber that provides no access to any real, tangible power, improvement or benefit.

But to each their own.

I totally agree with you i found it hollow as far back as my 20's.
But if you study the SB and his other writtngs you can find a little bit of info that can fit will with Traditional Satanism,ideas like the Total Environmet for example.

Sypheara wrote:He used the name Satan because it would make it look more edgy than it is, more deep than it actually is, and make him the most $$$$.

I personally find it to be very hollow and pointless path to follow, providing nothing more than an egocentric echo chamber that provides no access to any real, tangible power, improvement or benefit.

But to each their own.

I totally agree with you i found it hollow as far back as my 20's.
But if you study the SB and his other writtngs you can find a little bit of info that can fit will with Traditional Satanism,ideas like the Total Environmet for example.

This is correct. Just because its hollow does not mean it does not contain some ideas etc of merit.But even in these cases we are probably better looking at the sources these ideas were derived from, rather than trying to sift through laveys writings.

This is correct. Just because its hollow does not mean it does not contain some ideas etc of merit.But even in these cases we are probably better looking at the sources these ideas were derived from, rather than trying to sift through laveys writings.

Hoodoo Boy wrote:I can say this Todays laVeyan Satanists oooohhhh Boy,for elite non-conformists they do tend to conform to what the CoS leadership says LaVey meant in the Satanic Bible and that Satanism is in fact a form of atheism and that true Satanists do not believe in a literal Satan.

I got into a conversation with a Laveyan and said:


read his book The Satanic Bible Page 62 :" "Most Satanists do not accept Satan as an anthropomorphic being",in that one line he was saying those Satanists who follow his beliefs do not believe in Satan as an anthropomorphic being,but that there are Satanists that do. So read THE BLACK ARTS. By RICHARD CAVENDISH,where LaVey got some of his ideas from Mr.Cavendish CLEARLY describes Satanists who are theistic and therefore believe in a literal Satan that predated Mr. LaVey! So either way even Mr.LaVey in his own way in his on book said a person that believes in and worships a Literal Satan is a Satanist,but those who follow LaVeyan beliefs do not believe in a literal Satan!

His reply back was :

I own the Black Arts book so what. I told you already I am not into Christianity.

I have come to the conclusion that laVeyans are nothing more then a brainwashed cult of pretenders who only listen to what the CoS Higherups say,and follow a highly cherry picked version of whats in the Satanic Bible,and when you hit them with facts from within the Satanic bible and from sources that Lavey drew upon their automatic response is I don't follow Christianity or that's reverse Christianity!

Nothing but dark spooky pretenders to the throne of Satan that should in fact own up the the fact they are pretenders and a right hand path group now!

Now there is the difference between a laveyan and a modern Satanist. Modern Satanists are atheists, but they need rituals because they seek self-development.
When it comes to traditional Satanists so it should not mean that they believe in the Biblical devil. They just believe in the existence of real deities or supernatural forces.