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Hi I am a long time reader but first time poster . As I have seen advised on the forumns I went and found an aspect of magick that I found intresting to begin my learnings in the occult ,mainly elemental magick.
My question is do certain people find aspects of this type easier ?.
Example being I find it much easier to enter the fire and air temples that that of water . After 10-25 minutes of meditation I can easily visualise the temples of air and fire but water is difficult and earth is only progressing slowly. The elements I find easy are the "opposites" to the difficult ones as described in much of my reading . Is this the reason ?

Milembarr wrote:My question is do certain people find aspects of this type easier ?.
Example being I find it much easier to enter the fire and air temples that that of water . After 10-25 minutes of meditation I can easily visualise the temples of air and fire but water is difficult and earth is only progressing slowly. The elements I find easy are the "opposites" to the difficult ones as described in much of my reading . Is this the reason ?

Air and Fire are more closely associated to the Spirit and Mind than Water and Earth. Water and Earth are considered the Fixt elements, which means their vibrations are closer to the astral and physical 'wavelengths'... relatively speaking.

As I see it, everything has its own wavelength, so you may need to tune yourself to a lower frequency in order to more clearly visualize these so-called Earth and Water Temples.

But... what are these Elemental Temples you speak of?

This is just my theory, but every person is born under a specific element and will always have more affinity with this one, me for example, I am from the water element, so doing healing spells or using my energy to purify people/ambient around is very easy, but try to use something with a more destructive or offensive nature (fire related spells) is harder, not impossible, just harder.

Like said by corvidus air and fire are close elements in the spiritual plane and in the natural world too, fire feed from the air and water or even earth "kill" the fire.
Try to do some meditation to find what is you element, but normally your element influence a little your behavior, so is not that hard to find out.

Don't forget that there are other element systems as well, like the chinese one using also iron and wood, if I am not mistaken, or the norse which includes ice as an element as well. The classic 4 element model is not the only one in existence. [wink]

Being affine to one "element" means for me having just a preset of more potent characteristics which are kind of associated with the element.
The elements are one projection plaine, as are planets or symbols or sounds. As I often mention it can be handled as different layers of correspondences. Makes it easier to maintain an overview.

Ramscha

That's the good point about having a theory, when someone see the flaws in your point, you can learn and do a better one =D

I'm quite familiar with several systems of Elemental Magic. The Neoplatonic and Greek system that is most dominant in the West, the Tantric Tatva's that are pretty much the same system, the Wu Xing of Daoyin -- and several of the later ideas inspired by these classical philosophies, including Thorsson's ideas of Teutonic Elemental Magic (with which I have a host of criticisms). This is the first time I've heard of "entering temples" in relation to this tradition of magic.

In regards to resonance, Hookko is sort of right that every one is "born under" an element in the sense that, in most people, even though all elements are present one is usually dominating the others. In the Neoplatonic or Tantric systems, this is understood as The Four Temperaments.

The thing is, though, this is not a good thing. When all four elements are present, and one is exaggerated, this is an imbalance. And as such, the first real Initiation of Classical Western Magic is the achievement of Elemental Equipoise or Fortitude as Crowley and I think some others called it, where all of the Microcosmic Elemental Forces are refined and working in harmony with each other, nobody trying to rule anybody else. Where the Yogi's chase Samadhi, and the Daoists chase Wu Wei, Elemental Equipoise is The Magicians Gnosis.



~:Shin:~

I'll be the first to admit that I'm not the most knowledgeable person on the board, but I can tell you about what I've learned from first hand experience working with elemental magicks. I use a five elemental system which I learned from a friend of mine, beyond that I have no idea where it comes from. Fire, Water, Earth, Air, and Spirit, with Spirit being divisible into two "sub-elements" Light and Dark (or ying and yang as it were.) I have found that some people have a natural affinity for one or two elements over the others, but thus far I've not noticed that being a severe problem in my or other's workings; they're just better at that element than the others. Kinda like someone being good at one sport over another; it doesn't mean they can't still play the other sports, they're just better at the one. I've also noticed that some people (such as myself) go through phases where different elements become easier or harder to use, although I've yet to find a cause for this.

The actual point is: Some people are more talented with specific elements than others. Just because Earth is harder for you to use than fire, it doesn't mean that you can't still use it effectively. Practice and discipline make all the difference.

lupenthewolf wrote:I use a five elemental system which I learned from a friend of mine, beyond that I have no idea where it comes from.

Time for a lesson in Occult History, then. Perhaps it'll be good for the whole thread.

The Western Elemental Key comes from Empedocles, a Pre-Socratic Mystic (for this is what true Philo-sophy is, Mysticism) who perceived the universe to function upon Four Roots: Fire, Air, Water, and Earth. Operating within each of these Roots, he saw, were Love (Yin, Darkness) and Strife (Yang, Light), where Love operated as the contractive and magnetic principle that pulled everything together and Strife operated as the expansive principle that separated things.

It was Plato in the Timeaus as memory serves who actually called them "Elements" for the first time. Before Plato, though these four forces were much discussed, they were not called Elements. Plato also mentions Aether, but it was his student Aristotle who added it as a Fifth Element -- the force that was more stable and celestial than the other four.

These core developments were used for a long time, shifted here and there in various schools of thoughts and systems. It became particularly important in Neoplatonic and Chaldaen Cosmology, where the Elements were considered the domain of the Earth Sphere. The first aim of initiation, then, became to master the elements, and then move past them to ascend the spheres of the seven planets.

While all of these ideas remained at the heart of the Hermetic and general Western tradition for a long time, influencing virtually every corner of the Western world in some manner or another, in the 19th century or so the Rosicrusians and Theosophists brought over the Tantric Tattva system, which is essentially the same as the Greek Elements and was then used by many Western schools of thought including the Golden Dawn, Franz Bardon, Crowley, and many others.

Much of what we have to day thus comes from Tibet and India, via the Tattva system, since those 19th-20th Century Occultists who so strongly used it in turn strongly influenced everything since. Though in essence and metaphysically, the Tattvas and the Greek Elements are the same, and I can attest to that having worked with both.

The clearest explanation for the Elemental Key that I've worked with comes from Franz Bardon:

Akasha or Aether is the transcendent Spirit or Light force, which is within everything and above everything at the same time. Called The Astral Light or LVX by others, it's a very important Element, though at the same time not an Element as the other Four are.

From this, the Four Elements themselves step forth. Via the classical Cosmology: Fire, being of a Light nature, is first. Water then comes. Between them, Air is born as the intermediary. Lastly, Earth forms as the collective balance of the other three. This is represented by the Tetragammaton: YHVH. Yod (Fire, The Father), Heh (Water, The Mother), Vau (Air, The Son), and Heh (Earth, The Daughter).

Then there are the Polar Forces, which like Aether, are not Elements as the main four are but are forces operating within and around them. It might be said that they technically come first, but it is less confusing to speak of them after. In Bardon's system, these are called The Electric Fluid (Yang, or Strife) and The Magnetic Fluid (Yin, or Love). The Electric Fluid is the principle Root of Fire (yes, the Root of a Root). It is within all Fire, but is of a more subtle nature, and can be used independently of Fire. The Magnetic Fluid is the principle Root of Water. It is likewise within all Water, but is of a more subtle nature and can be used independently.

Aether, Fire, Air, Water, Earth, The Electric Fluid (Strife) and The Magnetic Fluid (Love). These seven forces represent the whole of the Classical, and in most ways the Modern Elemental Key that is used in the broader Western Tradition, from Hermetics to Tantra to various styles of witch craft and many other arts.



~:Shin:~

Very clarifying Shinichi, thanks for sharing

Sorry I will clarify on the issue of the "Temples" I mentioned , I read about them in a book called "Pratical Elemental Magick" by David Rankine. It was a pretty well grounded book that explained a lot of theory and meditation along with a form of elemental "hierarchy" from the archangel to the base elementals (pretty complex) and explained these temples as a meditation process for beginners. It also said that they were astral locations where an elemental could be contacted with relative safety. I use it mainly for meditation and mindset exercises before rituals involving the element.

Thank you Shinichi, that was very informative. Do you mind if I copy that post for my notes?

Milembarr wrote:"Pratical Elemental Magick" by David Rankine.

That is a very interesting book, Milembarr. Thank you for introducing me to it.

I'll have to finish reading it later, but from what I scanned through it's not what I would call a "beginner" workbook. The authors present it that way, and there is a lot of decent material there, but I would call it more intermediate than beginner.

Try reading through this stack of material, in order:

Treatise on Elemental Magic, by Prophecy.
A Course on Elemental Magic, by Prophecy. Read the PDF for this one, since they're broken up into three articles otherwise.
A Short Course on Scrying, by Benjamin Rowe.

It should be noted that I have a few criticisms in various parts of Prophecy's work, even though or perhaps especially because I'm one of his students, but they are relatively minor in the grand scheme. Balance out his work with others and you'll be well rounded. Those three alone should make working through Rankine's book a lot easier, though for a broader education in Elemental Magic:

Initiation Into Hermetics, by Franz Bardon. It's licensed (I think?), so buy it or google the pdf on your own.
A Bardon Companion, by Rawn Clark. Rawn also has an expanded second edition out now, which you can find on amazon or ebay.
An IIH Commentary, by Chris Murphy. Murphy's mystic fervor and practical encouragement is appreciated, but take a deep breath and don't get swept into his pace too easily. Go at your own pace.
Basic Training, by William Mistele.

Martin Faulks youtube channel will probably be interesting as well, while we're on Bardon students. He has a video where he changes his body temperature with the Fire Accumulation, meditates at the bottom of a pool, and there's also neat things like an interview with Bardon's son Lumir.

And just to throw in one of the classics:

The Philosophy of Natural Magic, by H. C. Agrippa. Also known as Three Books on Occult Philosophy. If reading all of Agrippa seems overwhelming right now, it probably is. A glance through will probably be beneficial though, especially his note on the elements.

This may seem like a lot (and it sort of is), but it's a relatively small stack (compared to mine) and this is much easier reading to start with than the older and more complicated texts I have available. As I said, read them in order. Start with Prophecy and Rowe, read Bardon, and just take your own time and practice at your own pace. Elemental Magic is an excellent place to start, and this work will give you the tools and skills to explore any other paradigm of magic if you approach it write. Bardon's first three steps are especially useful for any beginner to work through, and doing so will give you the skills necessary to learn and work with great magic.

lupenthewolf wrote:Thank you Shinichi, that was very informative. Do you mind if I copy that post for my notes?

Not at all. I posted it for public benefit, so if it will benefit you than use it however you wish. Anyone else can as well. It may be wise to also make note of the content of the links, though, rather than just copying the url's. The internet has a habit of changing over the years, and a note of url's today may not be very useful five years from now.

I also forgot to mention the Polarity of Air and Earth. Fire is Electric and Water is Magnetic, and it was said that Air is born from their interraction. Being such an Intermediary, then, containing the influence of both, Air is Electromagnetic. Arriving at Earth, then, which contains the forces of all the other three: Earth is Tetrapolar.



~:Shin:~

Thanks for the reading list Shinichi . I'll get started ASAP .