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Hi everyone. I've been looking into the occult for quite a while now and have read a few books on the subject, but now I'd like to choose a direction to go in but am struggling to differentiate between the different choices I have. I'm based in the North of England.

The problem in a nutshell: I would like to study a Western Esoteric Tradition. I don't really know where. The points to consider are below.

1 - I think I like Hermetics. I have read the Kybalion and it resonated with me, so as a philosophy I think it suits me.
2 - I like the idea of magic, perhaps ritual, perhaps chaos. Either way it isn't a way for me to manipulate the material, rather a tool for spiritual advancement.
3 - I'm unsure if I should join an initiatory order, or learn myself from sources such as Bardon.
4 - If I were to choose an order, which one (listed below) is good/reputable/not a scam?
5 - I will continue to read and learn no matter what, I just feel I need structure.

OPTIONS:

1 - Work through Franz Bardon's IITH with discipline and dedication, using available resources to help
2 - Join and order... Golden Dawn - I'm unsure if the politics puts me off. The nearest temple is a 2 hour drive away. Astral initiation is not an option. Wife thinks it's wierd.
Society of Inner Light - Looks comprehensive. Is it any good?
Servants of the Light - As above
Aurum Solis - A new one to me, looks very interesting and 'up my alley'. Don't know anyone who has been with them though.
Ordo Astrum Sophia - A break away of the Aurum Solis? How does this affect their work/future? Good resources on their site.
OTO - Not interested in Thelema
Freemasonry / SRIA - A possibility, but I doubt the focus is as strong as those above.

So basically, I'm looking for a place to learn and grow. Can I do this myself or should I join an order? If so what would the more experienced members here recommend?

Many thanks.

Hello there, I hope this post finds you well.

I have read your post, and would like to offer my own two pounds as it were.. I am a fellow north englander who wishes to help a fellow citizen out.

I consider myself to be quite steeped in the Western Esoteric Tradition, as part of its modern revival, as part of a traditional witchcraft. This is difficult to explain, and i've struggled with it before, but I think my advice should be in some way, obvious once you begin to think about it thoroughly.

You do not want to be relying on a human group or organisation to teach you the secrets of Magick and the Occult, but instead be relying on the Aerial, and Chthonic spirits, to teach you it directly. Why go through human authors when the source is available with some work? They will also be able to, through working with them and alongside them, accelerate your spiritual advancement.

I think that ritually working with these spirits is an ideal direction for you. There is routes and precedents already set - their invocations and evocations exist within the grimoires, for example although dressed in christian overtones and blinds, and their is a rich western tradition of spirit work hidden there that will connect you with what you seek far quicker than many shallow systems that exist.

I think you should concentrate on learning by yourself for now, concentrating on sources that interest you, and more importantly, attempting to learn directly from spirit entities. I advise that to be able to connect the dots my bad explanation is trying to lay out, you read up on Jake Stratton Kents work. His Work on Goetia is exceptionally powerful, and shows how the grimoires and the magick inspired/derived from them is exceptionally powerful, and in some way similar to a Western Quimbanda for lack of better words.

I personally recommend you to read his works and tell me what you think, by either here or PM. I have found that ever since I have made personal contact with the chthonic and aerial spirits, they have taught me more themselves / directed me towards what i've needed for a particular means of growth.

I am someone who follows the Path of Flames of Hecate, which is a relatively new current with very old origins. I found it after directions from Hecate herself, and it has become a path i find melds very closely with my own, so I follow it closely whilst working within the grimoire tradition which is compatible. Finding books and information is difficult, but our spirits and gods ripple through the grimoires.. anyone who can contact them is ensured to be taught by them directly in a similar manner.

I have no real words on hermeticism as I have had too much brushes with spirits to be able to fully endorse or believe in dualistic thought patterns. Obviously there are elements of it within the above, as it was highly influential, and certain areas of it seem to hold up, but I digress.

That would be a good starting point, in my mind. I don't mean to steer you away from hermetics, just it might give a good counter balance to what others might suggest, and for me, success is really made when we contact and learn from beings of the immaterial worlds we want to travel in, experience, and ultimately, live within once our physical bodies are dust and we have no choice but to transform into the spirit.

SlurmsMcKenzie wrote:Hi everyone. I've been looking into the occult for quite a while now and have read a few books on the subject, but now I'd like to choose a direction to go in but am struggling to differentiate between the different choices I have. I'm based in the North of England.

The problem in a nutshell: I would like to study a Western Esoteric Tradition. I don't really know where. The points to consider are below.

1 - I think I like Hermetics. I have read the Kybalion and it resonated with me, so as a philosophy I think it suits me.
2 - I like the idea of magic, perhaps ritual, perhaps chaos. Either way it isn't a way for me to manipulate the material, rather a tool for spiritual advancement.
3 - I'm unsure if I should join an initiatory order, or learn myself from sources such as Bardon.
4 - If I were to choose an order, which one (listed below) is good/reputable/not a scam?
5 - I will continue to read and learn no matter what, I just feel I need structure.

Who says you have to do it any one way? It seems to me that you can look into all of it using all the methods you've described. To say one is better than another is impossible. Only you can discover what will work well for you. try looking around to find a few practitoners in your local area whom you can meet face to face. This is the best way to spot fakes. Don't be too trusting of strangers advice either. Many will lead you astray either intentionally or otherwise.

SlurmsMcKenzie wrote: 1 - I think I like Hermetics. I have read the Kybalion and it resonated with me, so as a philosophy I think it suits me.

I love Hermetics

The Kybalion is a nice general work on so-called 'metaphysical laws', but if you want the real heavy Hermetic Philosophy stuff, you should study the works of Sloane, Paracelsus, Levi, Sendivogius, Valentine, Philalethes, Roger Bacon, Plato and Aristotle (to start with).

Sypheara wrote:Hello there, I hope this post finds you well.

It does find me well, thank you. And thanks also for a very detailed and thoughtful reply.

I must say that until this point I had always considered Goetic Magic to be fairly advanced and dangerous, and not something I'd like to get involved with unless very strongly supervised.

After a cursory scan through a few documents I'm starting to appreciate that it may be (I say may, because I've not looked enough) the original form of western shamanism which has since been interpreted into something else. Very interesting, although I still feel a little nervous considering any kind of work like this - although to be fair I apply this to Enochian work too.

Having said that, I have no objection to Shamanic ritual to contact entities so it could all just be a case of previous conditioning on my part. More thought is needed!

The idea of working on development under the guidance of spirits very much appeals to me - I just need to make sure they are the right spirits!

I will likely PM you at some point, thank you.

manonthepath wrote:

SlurmsMcKenzie wrote:Hi everyone. I've been looking into the occult for quite a while now and have read a few books on the subject, but now I'd like to choose a direction to go in but am struggling to differentiate between the different choices I have. I'm based in the North of England.

The problem in a nutshell: I would like to study a Western Esoteric Tradition. I don't really know where. The points to consider are below.

1 - I think I like Hermetics. I have read the Kybalion and it resonated with me, so as a philosophy I think it suits me.
2 - I like the idea of magic, perhaps ritual, perhaps chaos. Either way it isn't a way for me to manipulate the material, rather a tool for spiritual advancement.
3 - I'm unsure if I should join an initiatory order, or learn myself from sources such as Bardon.
4 - If I were to choose an order, which one (listed below) is good/reputable/not a scam?
5 - I will continue to read and learn no matter what, I just feel I need structure.

Who says you have to do it any one way? It seems to me that you can look into all of it using all the methods you've described. To say one is better than another is impossible. Only you can discover what will work well for you. try looking around to find a few practitoners in your local area whom you can meet face to face. This is the best way to spot fakes. Don't be too trusting of strangers advice either. Many will lead you astray either intentionally or otherwise.

Thank you for the advice. I think ultimately I will look into it using all the methods as you said, I just wonder if the best place to start (and therefore get ri of some of the confusion) is on my own or as part of an order?

And the caution to never trust strangers is well heard, especially in the Occult field - and extra caution for it being over the internet! I give my trust after a LOOONG time and after a lot of research under my own steam. Thanks for the warning.

corvidus wrote:

SlurmsMcKenzie wrote: 1 - I think I like Hermetics. I have read the Kybalion and it resonated with me, so as a philosophy I think it suits me.

I love Hermetics

The Kybalion is a nice general work on so-called 'metaphysical laws', but if you want the real heavy Hermetic Philosophy stuff, you should study the works of Sloane, Paracelsus, Levi, Sendivogius, Valentine, Philalethes, Roger Bacon, Plato and Aristotle (to start with).

Just a bit of light reading then?! [eek] haha

Have you any experience of esoteric orders?

SlurmsMcKenzie wrote: Have you any experience of esoteric orders?

Nope