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Did a quick topic search but didn't see anything quite pertaining to the question I'd like to ask. If it's been said already, please refer me to that topic, I won't ask anyone to redundantly repeat what's already been said. Also, I am unsure if this is the proper category to ask this, it seemed a bit too general to put in another one but if there's a better section for it, if you guys could please direct me to it.

Now, I have never been hunting before but my goal is to eventually be able to live off the land as much as I am able to. I would use as much of whatever animal I collect in my personal life, and donate whatever I can't. I do not believe in letting things go to waste. So my question is how am I able to hunt....spiritually for lack of a better word. I want to honor the animals that gave their lives to support mine and connect with the plants I harvest. Is there any sort of meditation/practice/ritual anyone can describe to me to do this (Or just give me a topic I can research)? I realize that there will be different methods based on the path you walk, but I'd like to explore various practices to find what works best for me.
Thank you guys for any advice you can give me

Depends on your tradition or paradigm.

The Native Americans had spirit songs that would be sung and chanted. Before the hunt, especially an important one, the songs would honor the land spirits, the animals and other forces, asking for their blessing and guidance on the hunt. Then the skill of the hunters went to work, and once the kill was made, a song of thanks was sung for the animal spirit to honor the sacrifice.

There's lots of things you can do. Lots of old tribes still know their songs, both in the Americas and in other cultures that operate similarly (though they're rare these days). You can write your own poems and songs, or just improvise on the spot and let everything come straight from the heart. There's other things you could do, like Christian Blessing stuff, or simply saying something short and sweet like "thank you for your sacrifice." It is the intention and the sincerity of feeling that is communicated more than the words.

Don't be afraid to follow your own heart on the matter, either. If you're thinking about it enough to make a topic like this, you probably already have an intuitive idea of what you need to do.



~:Shin:~

Or your cultural heritage if it's important to you.

I plan on living the same way, although I intend to grow more food, and only hunt as a necessity.

Obviously, what's been said are all good points, but the biggest priority is not to let anything go to waste. That's my opinion at least.

If someone were to eat me, I wouldn't want half my carcass left in a ditch or a garbage can. Hell, make jewelry out of my bones for all I care, just don't kill me for the sake of doing so. You're getting a lot more than one meal.

And you're also getting a lot more than a meal.
Research whatever animals it is that are in the area you'd be hunting in, and know everything you can make out of their parts.
Probably going to need to take up some new skill sets, such as sewing for crafting clothing. I'm sure many others could come in handy.

Another point I'd like to make is not to hunt with firearms.
Depending on what you're hunting, traditional ways take significant more effort, but are all around better practices.
You don't have to clean out the wounds afterwards, you don't terrify the rest of the forest, and it's a hell of a lot more honorable.

I'd much rather chase a deer down through the forest with a spear, or sword fight a bear to the end than shoot them once from a safe treetop and call it a day.
In fact, my first real hunt I plan on trying to take down a bear. Probably a panda, because I'd like to be near the forests of China, and panda bears are pretty vicious, and with a longsword or katana.

I'd like to give my food a chance to make me food as well. If the hunted is a better hunter than you, by all means. Let them eat.

Haelos wrote:I'd much rather chase a deer down through the forest with a spear, or sword fight a bear

You know, if you're looking for traditional weapons, we invented this thing not too long ago called a Bow. It's quite efficient, and a lot less dangerous than holding a sword up to a bear. There's also a particularly old weapon called an Atlatl, which is very fun to use, has incredible range, and is even more deadly than a bow.

And really, leave the poor pandas alone. You never know when Po might pop out. [eek]



~:Shin:~

Or you could hunt wild boar with dogs and daggers. There's a lot of traditional hunting methods that don't involve swords or katanas.

Hunting pandas? Please tell me you're kidding.

Thank you all for the replies! I appreciate the advice.

Haelos, I definitely plan on using all parts of the animal. It will take a lot of learning, but I'm very excited to do so I'll probably be making a lot of leather strips out of the hides to use for various purposes. Bone jewelry can be very beautiful and may make me an extra few bucks (if I don't decide to wear it myself :p) As far as clothing goes, I'm probably going to have a few sheep- maybe even some cotton growing.
I plan on using traditional weapons when I can. Bows, preferably. May test out spear hunting/fishing or Atlatl as Shinichi suggested. I'd even like to make my own equipment, some out if the available resources and nicer ones out of purchased goods.
I have a lot of goals, some more attainable than others haha

All suggestions here are good.

I'm one who'd see honoring the land more as direct action. Killing as few animals as possible to get your required intake of nutrition, killing them quickly and cleanly, respecting their homes, and watching where your trash and any pollution from your belongings or lifestyle goes. Understanding how the land around you works, either in a hands-on or a geological sense, and trying not to be disruptive to your shared space through agriculture or construction.

If you want to move to some land away from the cities and grow enough crops to feed yourself, you're going to need a chunk of space that may or may not just be sitting around in the woods at the proper size and with everything you need to grow. When I was growing up we had a raspberry patch in the backyard about 20 feet by 20 feet, and that meant a couple bowls of raspberries a year during the ripe season with some damaged by bugs, birds, and other animals. That wouldn't be too much food for a grown man, and there would be a lot more wild animals.

I don't see humans as outside the same sphere of life as wolves or caribou, and to me that means we're not required (though it would be nice) to offer anything special when it comes to food except not do as a bratty child does and smear our hands all over the cake frosting, so to speak. We can leave our cities after having lived in them all our lives and having supported factory farms, walk into the woods, and we're treated no differently than anything else for better or for worse. We'd slip right back into the fold we were only separate from physically; natural laws, biology, and the Earth applied to us the whole time.

As you stand over the carcass of whatever you have just killed, strip and bathe in the blood while it's still warm. Completely cover yourself including your eyes and under your nuts. Do not wipe it off. Let it dry and put your clothes back on. Then hump the carcass out on your back. Eat the heart right there.

killing them quickly and cleanly

Ever worked at a butchers store? Killing is never clean and what seams quick to you might be completly different for the one you bring death upon. Of course death himself is probably the cleanest and most sterile of all forces in this cosmos but the art of killing never is.

Ramscha

Ramscha wrote:

killing them quickly and cleanly

Ever worked at a butchers store? Killing is never clean and what seams quick to you might be completly different for the one you bring death upon. Of course death himself is probably the cleanest and most sterile of all forces in this cosmos but the art of killing never is.

Ramscha

I thought it would be clear that I meant relatively. As in, know how to use a weapon so that you don't need to use half a dozen arrows or four shots from a gun when one would suffice, and if you have to deal a killing blow by hand know what is and isn't fatal for an animal so it doesn't have to spend 10 minutes in agony while you thrash it about trying to finish the job. [stare]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that yes, there are killing methods that are quick to both an animal and to me - like a bullet to the brain. Not the preferred method for hunting when it comes to a fair fight, but I'm sure there are equivalents when you're using alternative weapons. I don't know how quickly an arrow in any spot on an animal that you can expect to hit will kill, but knowing how to use a knife or your hands to do more than just stand there and wait would be ideal. That's what a quick and clean kill is, no apron and hand soap needed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvTv-I2Y390 [gz] [gz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvTv-I2Y390 [gz] [gz]

I'm trying to understand why this conversation seems to be veering into the realms of 'it's wrong to use tools'. Hell, even otter's use tools.

I agree - there are proper ways of using weapons to make the kills quicker and cleaner instead of sloppy, more painful and drawn out.

RoseRed wrote:I'm trying to understand why this conversation seems to be veering into the realms of 'it's wrong to use tools'. Hell, even otter's use tools.

Oh, my dear Rose. Why has this conversation taken such turns? The answer is so simple.

Most of the people in this conversation are male.

[razz]



~:Shin:~

Hunting, you say. Pandas. Boars. With spears. And bows.

...

Has anyone here ever killed an animal? Killing chickens is a messy, bloody work. It always saddened me, and I saw that a lot when I was younger since, well, I grew up on a small family farm. I can still remember, me being 6 years old, firmly holding my favorite chicken (and whispering 'shush, it'll be alright') when the axe falls down and chops its head off. I also assisted in pig slaughtering. If you hadn't seen it, you wouldn't believe how much blood there is.

It's horrible. The screams of a dying pig is absolutely one of the most terrifying things I ever heard. Since I'm sharing my near-traumatic memories here, let me just add that looking cows in the eyes while they're dying always made me cry.

But all of this is just killing animals, not hunting them down.

The only animals I ever successfully hunted down for food were fish, squids, crabs, shellfish and one octopus (I got lucky). Basically, that's where I felt confident using primitive tools. I'm also trying to live only of my plants and my animals (to have a small farm in a few years), but hunting? I don't know where you guys live, but one does not simply goes out in the woods and hunt. There's a big learning curve to how, when, and what to kill before you can do it legally, well, at least here where I'm from.

As for 'spiritual work', yes, it depends on the paradigm. Lately I've been trying to communicate with my plants before I pick 'em up, and in general, it makes me feel very thankful, both to them and the soil. I've been thinking to do the same thing this summer before I catch some fish. It's hard to explain, it's not like I read somewhere how to do it, it just occurred to me on one of my shamanic journeys (''be more thankful to living beings around you''). I'm not over thinking it, and it works well so far. I believe I'm on the right path.

I doubt I'll ever hunt.

Ušušur wrote:Has anyone here ever killed an animal?

I have, and I can echo everything else you said. Especially this:

Ušušur wrote:It's horrible.

Horrible squared, for a natural clairsentient that feels what is happening.

Which is why male youth amuses me. [razz] There can be said to be a nobility in hunting, in providing. It can even be called a warriors journey.

But there is no honor in war.

Regarding the plant thing, I'm finally getting around to Gundarsson's Elves, Wights and Trolls book. I just read through a section where he spoke of how he and his wife communicate with the spirits of the plants they grow and how well it works.



~:Shin:~

No honor in war, huh? Have you been to war?

Shinichi wrote:

Ušušur wrote:Has anyone here ever killed an animal?

I have, and I can echo everything else you said. Especially this:

Ušušur wrote:It's horrible.

Horrible squared, for a natural clairsentient that feels what is happening.

Which is why male youth amuses me. [razz] There can be said to be a nobility in hunting, in providing. It can even be called a warriors journey.

But there is no honor in war.

Regarding the plant thing, I'm finally getting around to Gundarsson's Elves, Wights and Trolls book. I just read through a section where he spoke of how he and his wife communicate with the spirits of the plants they grow and how well it works.



~:Shin:~

Most of the nobility in hunting was back when all we had were spears. You actually had to be athletic to start.

It was a gift and a test for survival. However, not all men are created equal. Which is why there was usually a leader and men must compete for that role.

The rest is history

I would say that for most modern hunters its not about the kill so much as it is being out in nature.

Also, it seems the more in tune you are with nature, the more likely you are to find that 30 point buck.

Its also an incredibly powerful "father-son" ritual that provides opportunities for boys to become men. There is honor in that in my opinion. I know too many 30some year old children running around who grew up in shopping malls.

War is another topic entirely.

So if the goal is the "live off the land" I assume ammo would be scarce no matter what.

However, pioneers made small fortunes back in the day trapping. I'd look into that if I was trying to live off the land. Best use of supplies

I have too, that is why I stated killing isn't as clean as most people imagine or wish to think while eating their steak.

Cought fish and beat them dead, raised ducks and bunnies for stew and there like more.

I've caught dinner, too, which is why I think it's important for people to know that there is a good and a bad way to get the job done, and not to give up on the idea of a clean kill just because there's blood. To the animal, I'm sure it makes a pretty big difference. [wink]

Sitting in a tree stand, having cameras and technology help you and bushwacking a creature from a distance does not make one a man. It does not make one a hunter. It makes one a bushwacker. Just like some bully mugger out of the gutter. Fathers and sons might be better advised to bond in some way that does not come with so high a price tag for a fellow being. People can be so fucking selfish! If you NEED to kill for food, no problem. We have supermarkets FULL of food and don't need to cause any more suffering than we already are. How many TONS of meat has to be thrown away because it goes past its date in a store? How many creatures suffer from the cruel systems we've put in place and allow to operate because of our selfish, lazy indifference? People seem to associate hunting with courage and skill, while some have even called it a "Right of Passage." The truth is that some around us enjoy the power of safely killing something that can't fight back. This is known as a "Cheap kill" or a "Pussy kill." If that's what you are, so be it, but don't fool yourselves for an instant that you are something worthy of merit or respect. Put your asses on a Bosnian battlefield and put a knife in your hand and tell you to go out into no-man's land and not to come back without someone's fucking head and then we'll see how many of you "Man up"

Historically and culturally most magick associated with hunting is shamanistic in nature. Some Amazonian tribes use a technique whereby they communicate with the animals through their dreams, the night before, and make arrangements where they will meet them during the hunt the next day.

By your point of view, you may get some use out of Tom Brown's "The Tracker" series. Though non magickal in nature, the talent of tracking takes on a transcendent mystical quality, the animal is viewed as sacred and too valued to waste any component.

Magickally speaking, there are numerous deities and spirits associated with the hunt which may be petitioned and invoked. Also consider magick to enhance your luck or to take on or enhance desirable qualities.