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Why people seek answers for their daily problems in Occult? I have depression can spirits help me? I have bad grades can Lucifer give me a hand? I love a girl is there a love spell? I am unemployed what magic should I do? Why dont they take professional help?

Atzmuth wrote:Why people seek answers for their daily problems in Occult? I have depression can spirits help me? I have bad grades can Lucifer give me a hand? I love a girl is there a love spell? I am unemployed what magic should I do? Why dont they take professional help?

No need to be judgmental. Why is thaumaturgy a problem as long as they're being reponsible and not indiscriminately hurting others?

Atzmuth wrote: Why people seek answers for their daily problems in Occult?

The same reason people seek answers anywhere. You have to remember that quite a few people believe in magick to a degree that they are absolutely certain it is real, and that it plays a major part in their lives. The term 'occult' only means 'the hidden things that are beyond the scope of current scientific thinking', and a perfectly acceptable definition of the word 'occult' itself is 'hidden'. People who seek answers in the occult are simply stepping outside of the norm to find answers.

The occult lifestyle is simply a paradigm, or 'a set of assumptions, concepts, values, and practices that constitutes a way of viewing reality for the community that shares them, especially in an intellectual discipline.' Following an occult lifestyle is therefore having a set of assumptions which include things not able to currently be explained by science. As science is an ever-expanding thing, there is no reason to believe that that we call occult today won't one day become mainstream.

Atzmuth wrote: I have depression can spirits help me?

Yes. This ultimately depends on what you believe 'spirits' to be.

Atzmuth wrote: I have bad grades can Lucifer give me a hand?

You have to be careful here in defining what you believe 'Lucifer' to be. Common assumption is that 'Lucifer' and 'Satan' are one in the same, but it is actually much more complex than that. Lucifer was an angel before The Fall.
Lucifer is only mentioned by name once in the Hebrew Bible, this being in Isaiah 14: 12-17;

"(12)How you have fallen from heaven, morning star (Lucifer), son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! (13)You said in your heart, 'I will ascend to the heavens; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon. (14)I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.' (15)But you are brought down to the realm of the dead, to the depths of the pit. (16)Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate: 'Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble, (17)the man who made the world a wilderness, who overthrew its cities and would not let his captives go home?'"

I've added the name 'Lucifer' up there in brackets to show you where he is mentioned. The name 'Lucifer' means 'Morning Star'. The name 'Satan' however means 'The Adversary', and can be seen as what Lucifer became after The Fall. Whether Lucifer and Satan are one in the same is highly debatable, and would require belief that an angel is as unchangeable as a human. As angels are supernatural entities, and as supernatural entities can actually hold multiple forms during the course of their existence, Lucifer and Satan aren't necessarily the same entity, and could be seen in the same way that a caterpillar becomes a butterfly - change through metamorphosis.

So, back to your question. Lets use Satan instead of Lucifer though. Could Satan give you a hand with your grades? Lets approach this from two angles - Theistic Satanism and LaVeyan Satanism.

Using a Theistic paradigm, Satan is an actual spiritual entity. Theistic Satanists believe that the acquisition of knowledge is extremely important, and that personal development is the key to true spiritual growth. Satan will send a Theistic Satanist a series of tests in order to develop them as individuals. Some Theistic Satanists seek to remove any means by which they are controlled or repressed by others and forced to follow the herd, and reject non-governmental authoritarianism. Belief in Satan, and worship of him, would therefore see him assisting you with your studies, as him helping you become more knowledgeable would help you better develop as an individual.

The LaVeyan paradigm is actually atheistic, and believes that Satan is actually just a concept that represents defiance of the conservative mainstream. LaVeyan Satanism teaches that everyone is actually a god, and that there is no room for any god except the self. Peter Gilmore explains this further in his essay 'Satanism: The Feared Religion';

Satanists do not believe in the supernatural, in neither God nor the Devil. To the Satanist, he is his own God. Satan is a symbol of Man living as his prideful, carnal nature dictates. The reality behind Satan is simply the dark evolutionary force of entropy that permeates all of nature and provides the drive for survival and propagation inherent in all living things. Satan is not a conscious entity to be worshipped, rather a reservoir of power inside each human to be tapped at will. Thus any concept of sacrifice is rejected as a Christian aberration—in Satanism there's no deity to which one can sacrifice.

So, to return to your original question in regards to a LaVeyan Satanist approach, Satan (your inner self) could be invoked to help with your grades, as in development of your self you will be required to pass certain subjects in order to progress.

Atzmuth wrote: I love a girl is there a love spell?

Lots of them. Biggest recognised problem in using magick to attract love is that you need to be rather specific as to what you want, otherwise it can backfire rather spectacularly. Also, commanding someone to love you through magick usually results in you having a puppet who feels compelled to love you, rather than someone who actually does.

Atzmuth wrote: I am unemployed what magic should I do?

Depends on what paradigm you follow. Some paradigms support employment in the mundane world, some are better suited for people wishing to remove themselves from such things.

Atzmuth wrote: Why dont they take professional help?

'Professional help' can take many forms. I learnt a lot of what I know about mindfulness from professional psychiatric help, and quite a few systems bear striking resemblance to magickal paradigms. People should go with what works for them - if you find that one form of assistance works, then use that. Belief in science and psychology doesn't mean you cant believe in magick and the occult - the two things can exist side by side.

I actually didnt mean to find answers fpr those questions [grin] I just wanted to give exemples of daily works. People mostly ask these questions.

Statements I've had made to me about my interest in the occult.

1. It's all a part of your sickness. None of it is real. When you wake up and realise that you're simply just ill then you'll feel much better. You can't really do any of the things you think you can do - you're just mentally ill.

2. The occult is bullshit. It's just there for weak minded people who can't handle reality.

3. The occult is all a pack of lies. How can you believe something so stupid? Don't you realise that this is the reason why you have no friends?

4. Maybe if you stopped believing in something so stupid then people would stop thinking you're such a weirdo? You know everyone thinks you're strange, right? Why can't you be more normal?

5. People who believe in divination and claim they can talk to the dead are just doing it so they can make money off weak, defenceless losers who can't deal with reality. You lot are predators - your'e disgusting!

6. Divination is wrong. You shouldn't ask a pack of cards what to do, you should grow up and take responsibility for your own actions for a change.

Being an occultist isn't always nice. People will victimise you, if you let them. Make sure you don't tell the wrong people about your beliefs. Remember that you don't require the justification of others to be who you really are.

Clockwork_Ghost wrote:Statements I've had made to me about my interest in the occult.

1. It's all a part of your sickness. None of it is real. When you wake up and realise that you're simply just ill then you'll feel much better. You can't really do any of the things you think you can do - you're just mentally ill.

2. The occult is bullshit. It's just there for weak minded people who can't handle reality.

3. The occult is all a pack of lies. How can you believe something so stupid? Don't you realise that this is the reason why you have no friends?

4. Maybe if you stopped believing in something so stupid then people would stop thinking you're such a weirdo? You know everyone thinks you're strange, right? Why can't you be more normal?

5. People who believe in divination and claim they can talk to the dead are just doing it so they can make money off weak, defenceless losers who can't deal with reality. You lot are predators - your'e disgusting!

6. Divination is wrong. You shouldn't ask a pack of cards what to do, you should grow up and take responsibility for your own actions for a change.

Being an occultist isn't always nice. People will victimise you, if you let them. Make sure you don't tell the wrong people about your beliefs. Remember that you don't require the justification of others to be who you really are.

The things you stated are the reason why I am afraid to study occult. People will make fun of me.

Atzmuth wrote: The things you stated are the reason why I am afraid to study occult. People will make fun of me.

Fuck them. Do whatever you want to do. You don't need approval from other people to be yourself. If it matters to you that people will make fun of you, then simply don't tell them what you believe in. Mate, I was raped by a pack of older kids at school because I acted different to them - people can be scum. Don't let other peoples ignorance define who you are, Atzmuth.

Atzmuth wrote: The things you stated are the reason why I am afraid to study occult. People will make fun of me.

I find the best way is to tailor my openness about my beliefs and practices to the understanding of the individual I'm talking to. So with most of my friends, I have a lot of philosophical/metaphysical debates, but I keep it abstract, with the atheistic side of my family, I talk about practicing meditation and internal martial arts, leaving out the esoteric side of these practices entirely and just stressing the physical/mental health benefits, with the religious side of my family, I have discussions and debates regarding religious and spiritual matters, but keep it open ended and don't solidify my esoteric worldview (good way to stop yourself from becoming dogmatic), with fellow martial arts students, I'll talk about energy, but in a purely mechanistic sense, and finally there's a small and select group of friends and acquaintances with whom I'm completely open about my magical/spiritual/mystical worldview/practices/experiences, because I know they understand them (generally because they have their own experiences in that area - a few of them are just more open minded than the average bear).

So yes, it can be isolating to have something which is so stigmatized as a major part of your daily life, but as Clockwork_Ghost said, you shouldn't allow other people's ignorance to define you. Work with your own understanding and experience, not that of other people (within reason, of course).

This is also part of why I always advocate some kind of personal training, even if it's just meditation or chi kung classes. Beyond the ability to ask questions, to tailor the learning experience, etc. personal training gives you a social context within which you can express your beliefs and experiences without judgement, a place where you can meet people with similar interests and mindsets. It goes a long way towards counteracting the isolation and bridging the gap between your daily life and your spiritual life.

Atzmuth wrote:Why people seek answers for their daily problems in Occult? I have depression can spirits help me? I have bad grades can Lucifer give me a hand? I love a girl is there a love spell? I am unemployed what magic should I do? Why dont they take professional help?

Usually because they don't understand how much hard work goes into the system of magic.

Desecrated wrote:

Atzmuth wrote:Why people seek answers for their daily problems in Occult? I have depression can spirits help me? I have bad grades can Lucifer give me a hand? I love a girl is there a love spell? I am unemployed what magic should I do? Why dont they take professional help?

Usually because they don't understand how much hard work goes into the system of magic.

They see it as an "easy" route without having any knowledge of it what-so-ever. It's a way around actually having to put forth any physical effort for them based upon laziness or insecurities. I've been surfing around on here and the amount of want for female companionship is just absurd. Like one dude wanting a succubus to fuck... You want one of those save up 3k and go to the strip-club, pretty sure some sleaze will be impressed and put out. And she will for sure suck you dry. I know, I used to dance and there are plenty of those girls in there. Like literally no shortage. LOL. [tongue]

I think the most straight-forward defense of occultism is that, even if it turned out to be nothing more than a profound set of positive psychology techniques, any decision you make using your own internal subjective faculties is a change that you could not have made if you had tied yourself 100% to the outward/objective. It's finding road map to places both within yourself and in terms of your own mental functioning where all kinds of very real and outward/objective opportunities can open up. By road map I mean having ways to change and improve yourself that are conventionally impossible by other means. To say that more succinctly if necessary - the proofs of occultism are the changes you're able to enact on yourself.

To find out on top of that, after enough practice, that consciousness is eternal and that your life and every life around you no matter how dismal it looks has real integrity and meaning in all of its circumstances, that's the icing on the cake.

Atzmuth wrote: The things you stated are the reason why I am afraid to study occult. People will make fun of me.

Perhaps you might want to ask yourself this question - if you're into this and practicing why would you need to volunteer that to people?

I'm depressed now. I don't know how I'm going to tie my shoes tomorrow morning if I give up the thoughtform who has been doing it for me. Sigh.

Lol jk of course. [gz]