OccultForum.org

Would any of you guys happen to know any simple methods of contacting a Goetic spirit to say, make a deal or arrange a service without having to follow all the complex instructions in the Lemegeton? I have read on these forums that Tarot seems to be popular but I was looking for something more literal that could fuel a basic conversation such as a pendulum or something of the like.

Can we win a body building contest by sitting on the couch?

Vovi wrote:Can we win a body building contest by sitting on the couch?

Good point. lol But what I meant was, are there any efficient ways to besides the Lesser Key of Solomon?

Not to my knowledge in the realm of safety. It is never wise to not second guess the intention and what is serves.

XxMxX wrote:Would any of you guys happen to know any simple methods of contacting a Goetic spirit to say, make a deal or arrange a service without having to follow all the complex instructions in the Lemegeton? I have read on these forums that Tarot seems to be popular but I was looking for something more literal that could fuel a basic conversation such as a pendulum or something of the like.

NO.

You could probably accomplish your goal with a sigil.

Why use something that you have no control over when you can create your own?

Just an idea.

Anyone who tries to us the occult with no firm background and foundation is like putting a loaded gun in the hands of a child. What many people forget is that those who wrote all the old books on subjects like this and the lesser key etc. had a vast knowledge of high magick before they messed with the fully demonic systems. To use them 'stand alone' is something I would never do, although many seem to do this very thing.

Vovi wrote:Anyone who tries to us the occult with no firm background and foundation is like putting a loaded gun in the hands of a child. What many people forget is that those who wrote all the old books on subjects like this and the lesser key etc. had a vast knowledge of high magick before they messed with the fully demonic systems. To use them 'stand alone' is something I would never do, although many seem to do this very thing.

Yes but I'm sure the jewish culture was not the only one where people managed to sorcery, was it? What I was asking was if there are any other systems available for this kind of work?

Yes, the Necronomicon. There are others also, of course, but please heed my warnings about any of them. Any system used should be used with a firm solid background as I have aforementioned. You can easily ruin you life with these systems with one wrong mistake. Others here will have much more info on these things being that my path is that of high magick if any magick at all.

XxMxX wrote:Would any of you guys happen to know any simple methods of contacting a Goetic spirit to say, make a deal or arrange a service without having to follow all the complex instructions in the Lemegeton? I have read on these forums that Tarot seems to be popular but I was looking for something more literal that could fuel a basic conversation such as a pendulum or something of the like.

Yeah, you can. The Lemegeton is an amazing spell book when it is properly understood, but it is just one person's spell book.

If you are so untrained in general Spirit Work that you have to ask this question, though, you shouldn't. The spirits respect strong and well trained magicians, genuine initiates who can stand in front of them as a king calmly stands before another kingdom's royalty. If you do not have that sort of development they will laugh at you for being a weakling and a foolish dabbler, a child playing in grown up matters that are years beyond him. Then they'll either ignore you, punish you for your arrogance, or just mess with you for amusement before they go home.

Those last two are usually very, very unpleasant



~:Shin:~

Vovi wrote:Yes, the Necronomicon. There are others also, of course, but please heed my warnings about any of them. Any system used should be used with a firm solid background as I have aforementioned. You can easily ruin you life with these systems with one wrong mistake. Others here will have much more info on these things being that my path is that of high magick if any magick at all.

Are there any practices that could introduce me to your system?

You want me to tell you how to run before you can walk. I can't do that and you are ignoring the warnings of Shinichi and myself. I have no concern for the left hand path that you wish to walk and will speak no more of it.

You need to do the minimal ground work before you can pursue this. I suggest you look into traditional witchcraft paths like stregheria or something as the grimoires seen through that lens after some basic training is simply mindblowing.

Paul husons mastering witchcraft is a great little book mixing Wicca with traditional folk witchcraft and gives you evocation training with two great spirits who can act as guardians and guides for further work. Once connection has been made this will grant you power to work more safely with the chtonic powers - the predatory ones will scent you as their own. This is the power granted in love from the Gods, your payment the likewise in devotion. This cannot be skipped.

Remember that the grimoires by themselves are barely coherent - they are heavily coded, hard to understand documents and the system is full of blinds to protect the traditions secret that will fuck you up if you use them wrongly

Take a look at Jake Stratton kents work with the grimoires in the true grimoire etc. These chthonic spirits are very important as part of a resurgent western tradition - working with them will be of massive benefit for you but they must be approached with as shinichi says the correct will and you will be tested heavily. Its not an easy path but it will give you the power you seek.

That is not to say you cant ignore me and approach these goetic daemons singlehandedly.. But they may lay a clqim on you in this life or the next.

Sypheara wrote:You need to do the minimal ground work before you can pursue this. I suggest you look into traditional witchcraft paths like stregheria or something as the grimoires seen through that lens after some basic training is simply mindblowing.

Paul husons mastering witchcraft is a great little book mixing Wicca with traditional folk witchcraft and gives you evocation training with two great spirits who can act as guardians and guides for further work. Once connection has been made this will grant you power to work more safely with the chtonic powers - the predatory ones will scent you as their own. This is the power granted in love from the Gods, your payment the likewise in devotion. This cannot be skipped.

Remember that the grimoires by themselves are barely coherent - they are heavily coded, hard to understand documents and the system is full of blinds to protect the traditions secret that will fuck you up if you use them wrongly

Take a look at Jake Stratton kents work with the grimoires in the true grimoire etc. These chthonic spirits are very important as part of a resurgent western tradition - working with them will be of massive benefit for you but they must be approached with as shinichi says the correct will and you will be tested heavily. Its not an easy path but it will give you the power you seek.

That is not to say you cant ignore me and approach these goetic daemons singlehandedly.. But they may lay a clqim on you in this life or the next.

Thanks, this was some really helpful info!

XxMxX wrote:Would any of you guys happen to know any simple methods of contacting a Goetic spirit to say, make a deal or arrange a service without having to follow all the complex instructions in the Lemegeton? I have read on these forums that Tarot seems to be popular but I was looking for something more literal that could fuel a basic conversation such as a pendulum or something of the like.

1. Read the Book Of Ceremonial Magick so the "complex instructions" and what they actually do become something you understand.
2. Learn some basic protective rituals. We have a thread on basic Cleansing and Banishing to get you started.
3. Choose a method of contact. This will be where you put your own knowledge and intuition together. Sigils, incantations, altars, etc. You get what you build.
4. Know that there are dangers involved. Never forget how scary the occult can be - just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Just a reminder that when responding in the beginner forum try to stray away from "it's dangerous, you will cause the sky to fall on you". If someone asks a question that violates your "path" simply state you cannot help them and if you wish to help point them in the way they seek. Beginners are here not to be lectured ad nauseum on what is dangerous, but neither do you have to help someone burn their house down. There is a nice middle ground between being welcome and spraying someone down with a fire hose of knowledge and having the knowledge locked away in a vault and anyone requesting something from there is scared away by a flock of screaming gulls. Ok, maybe I'm getting a little too descriptive with my analogies now...

Stukov wrote:Just a reminder that when responding in the beginner forum try to stray away from "it's dangerous, you will cause the sky to fall on you". If someone asks a question that violates your "path" simply state you cannot help them and if you wish to help point them in the way they seek. Beginners are here not to be lectured ad nauseum on what is dangerous, but neither do you have to help someone burn their house down. There is a nice middle ground between being welcome and spraying someone down with a fire hose of knowledge and having the knowledge locked away in a vault and anyone requesting something from there is scared away by a flock of screaming gulls. Ok, maybe I'm getting a little too descriptive with my analogies now...

Yeah sorry if i came across a little dimwitted with the topic question. I'm just trying to find as much mixed information as possible so I can direct myself to some promising sources.

XxMxX wrote:

Stukov wrote:Just a reminder that when responding in the beginner forum try to stray away from "it's dangerous, you will cause the sky to fall on you". If someone asks a question that violates your "path" simply state you cannot help them and if you wish to help point them in the way they seek. Beginners are here not to be lectured ad nauseum on what is dangerous, but neither do you have to help someone burn their house down. There is a nice middle ground between being welcome and spraying someone down with a fire hose of knowledge and having the knowledge locked away in a vault and anyone requesting something from there is scared away by a flock of screaming gulls. Ok, maybe I'm getting a little too descriptive with my analogies now...

Yeah sorry if i came across a little dimwitted with the topic question. I'm just trying to find as much mixed information as possible so I can direct myself to some promising sources.

There was nothing wrong with your question, do not worry.

Vovi wrote:You want me to tell you how to run before you can walk. I can't do that and you are ignoring the warnings of Shinichi and myself. I have no concern for the left hand path that you wish to walk and will speak no more of it.

By your avatar, are you golden dawn by any chance?

Finally gotten around to reading Jake Stratton Kents 'The True Grimoire'. That ll teach me for reading a book series backwards..

It is a pretty damn good reconstruction of the Grimorium Verum. Whilst it isn't suitable for inclusion in my own work without adaption, it is a good start for anyone who wishes to explore the Goetia and consider how they can approach it whilst respecting the system.

If you arn't already working any system, it would technically be possible to use it as a complete system with little 'effort' (by that, i mean in adapting the system to 'work' as it feels very cohesive, using scirlin as an intermediary. There are still alot of work needed to be done to create the tools etc but thats part of the initiation for the system.)

Hello friend and peace be with you.

People in this forum have given advice to be careful. I have a personal experience that is very unusual.

I was suddenly thrust into the darkest magic known to mankind in an instant, and I had no knowledge of magic at all. I had more raw "aetheric dough" forced through me than any one person should be able to withstand.

This "dough" is the raw life substance. I call it dough because it literally changes with your own thoughts in an instant. It can go from wonderful to terrible with a few thoughts, or from terrible to wonderful the same way. Its like silly puddy, it does what the nearest mind tells it to. Literally.

Having said that i'll say this...there are "large pools" of this dough that have been formed over thousands of years by many different influences that give it a distinctive character. This character can be all the way from the greatest love to the darkest evil.

It is possible to step into a pool at either end of the spectrum. If you step into a particularly powerful pool, it is possible, more than possible, to get pulled into it and never be released.

The love pools will give you free will, the dark pools will deny you the same.

The dark pools use words backwards from the way you use them. For example, if you hear something like "this improves relations" from a dark pool that you don't recognize as a dark pool it really means>>>we can relay and triangulate you better right now<<< etc...etc....etc....

Be careful grasshopper. I had so much juice suddenly pumped through me that I could manifest things physical within three days, be they good or bad.

I wish you peace. Should you find yourself swamped develop a mantra, a positive one, and think it over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over.....and then some more.

Look on youtube for videos on CYMATICS. This is what your mind does do the "raw dough" in your proximity.

I love you brother and be safe.