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What do you think does this Tarot apps or websites that give tarot readings work ?
In my personal views they should work. But I would like hear opinions of the more experienced.

RockDemon wrote:What do you think does this Tarot apps or websites that give tarot readings work ?
In my personal views they should work. But I would like hear opinions of the more experienced.

You have to remember that 99% of the tarot reading population are doing so with mass-produced plastic cards done by a toy manufacturer.
There is nothing "magic" in the cards themselves. The real work happens inside your brain and how you choose to interpret the symbols.
If you see them on a card or on a computerscreen doesn't really mater.

Desecrated wrote:

RockDemon wrote:What do you think does this Tarot apps or websites that give tarot readings work ?
In my personal views they should work. But I would like hear opinions of the more experienced.

You have to remember that 99% of the tarot reading population are doing so with mass-produced plastic cards done by a toy manufacturer.
There is nothing "magic" in the cards themselves. The real work happens inside your brain and how you choose to interpret the symbols.
If you see them on a card or on a computerscreen doesn't really mater.

Yes of course there is nothing magic in the card themselves. And everything is done by subconscious , I guess. However the thing is ... the same subconscious... if I have real cards in my hands ...will my subconscious make me to draw out specific cards rather than just random ones ?

I've never been able to feel a connection to the cards drawn on tarot apps. I like to have them directly in front of me but that's just a personal preference. My advice would be, if you have a deck. Get a spread from the app, get everything you can out of it. Then duplicate the spread from your deck (it should be the same deck used in the app) and see what you get out of it. I don't think you subconscious necessarily pulls specific cards. I do know that I feel the physical act of pulling the card, saying its name, taking in its art and symbolism, and putting it in its place helps me form a connection both to the individual cards and the spread as a whole. I also go through a short meditative breathing and grounding ritual before doing a reading to put myself in the right frame of mind.

So yeah, I've tried the apps but in my experience, without the ritual it loses something.

RockDemon wrote:

Desecrated wrote:

RockDemon wrote:What do you think does this Tarot apps or websites that give tarot readings work ?
In my personal views they should work. But I would like hear opinions of the more experienced.

You have to remember that 99% of the tarot reading population are doing so with mass-produced plastic cards done by a toy manufacturer.
There is nothing "magic" in the cards themselves. The real work happens inside your brain and how you choose to interpret the symbols.
If you see them on a card or on a computerscreen doesn't really mater.

Yes of course there is nothing magic in the card themselves. And everything is done by subconscious , I guess. However the thing is ... the same subconscious... if I have real cards in my hands ...will my subconscious make me to draw out specific cards rather than just random ones ?

If you draw the card upside down it should be pretty random.

If it's an old deck with some marks on it, the subconsciousness could be sensitive to recognize the position of the cards. And if the edges are torn the fingers might recognize each card, but with a new deck I would assume that you are still drawing random cards.

The tarot I've used online is basically a random generator based on the information you give (name + question). In a way you could "divine" through it by using whatever method you would normally to alter the name + question you type in. So you get in your mind what you want to know, you select the spread and the style, type in the name you wish to use, type in your question (select significator if you want to). If you miss type something (such as common if you are on mobile), don't fix it, and type it in as it streams too you.

It might not always work if at all, so anything you read just use it as a tool for self reflection and general awareness.

The site I've used when I have done this was http://www.facade.com/tarot/

Desecrated wrote: If it's an old deck with some marks on it, the subconsciousness could be sensitive to recognize the position of the cards. And if the edges are torn the fingers might recognize each card, but with a new deck I would assume that you are still drawing random cards.

I thought that is how tarot works. While having cards' edges torn will make to do some conscious choices...however if it is the subconscious that draws the cards (no matter how it recognizes specific cards) then you have a "true" divination. The more the subconscious becomes familiar with the individual cards and absorbs their symbolism and what energies they have/represent the better one can divine in my opinion. After all I think if it is full random and every card you draw out is just by "pure chance" as you suggest (excuse me if I am misunderstanding) then the divination doesn't seem to make sense. And then the cards could be only just for self-reflection and meditations for their symbolism. It is the cards and the subconscious that make the divination work.And probably that is why

Stukov wrote: If you miss type something (such as common if you are on mobile), don't fix it, and type it in as it streams too you.

because your subconscious still knows how to mess up things I hope Stukov will clarify whether I understand this statement correctly or not.

So a few divinations guys. Would you please tell what you can draw out of these? The first one is done with Crowley's deck with the use of 15 card method. The second one is done with Raider Waite with the Celtic cross method. And there is a card that is not shown but is in the center of the cross.. It is four of the swords...

It isn't so much your subconscious doing the work as the subconscious is the bridge between the physical and the non-physical. In the non-physical realm there is an access of an abundance of knowledge and information including information that is not bound by the constraints of the arrow of time (which does exist, but is heavily linked to the physical world). There are more than one way to access this information.

One way is direct connection, in which your consciousness of your physical mind is directly connected to this information (if you know or have said information on the other side). The advantage is you can really go looking for anything, much in the same way that you use google, the disadvantage is it can literally be like googles main page.

There is so much information that you first need a "search string" such as a question then you have to go through the results, the the information itself, and the more information that exists the more difficult it is to understand as there is just so much to go through. When you are connected like this you are just begging people to ask you questions about things because you then have something to go looking for.

An other disadvantage is much in the same way of the internet, once you lose your connection, that information on google/wiki is inaccessible if you just go browsing through there, given the complexity and depth of the information, you can't just download it all and be good. About the only thing you can keep is your own memory of while you was in there. For example if you wanted to download the entirety of the internet and you only have a small hard drive to store it on, it isn't going to work. However, if you go around reading the web pages, and jot down notes and then save those notes, you can go back and read those notes again later. So while being connected to the other side if you talk to yourself or someone else in your head, such as imaging explaining what you know to someone else, while you won't remember that source of information you can remember the conversation and explanation in your head. There was another disadvantage but I forgot after typing this last paragraph out.

The other way is to allow your non-physical self that exists on the other side, or another being that exists there to pass information to you as it is necessary. The way that can be communicated to you is through your subconscious. Our body can do things and react without conscious input, such as putting your hand on something hot, you will instantly recoil before you have a chance to think about it. When your non-physical self or other beings have permission or access to the bridge of your subconscious it can pass information off through a variety of means of control.

Using tarot is one of them, where by shuffling or in the case of typing things online, the subconscious and insert or manipulate what you are doing to present an outcome that holds a message. There are also external things that can be manipulated to pass along messages, such as with the Native Americans (and other cultures), the other side would work through animals in a way that you might understand it through use of known symbolism (or going to someone who does). Other people can also be manipulated to pass information off to you (or you to them) but going that way is going down the rabbit hole of the weave and connectivity between people and manipulating a great deal of random or chaotic events that requires not only a major grandiose view from above, but also strong pillars to connect those above with those on the ground that can receive.

Make sense rock?

RockDemon wrote:What do you think does this Tarot apps or websites that give tarot readings work ?

I did an input based on your name RockDemon and your question as quoted above. The significator I chose based on stuff you said. I left the fold presented as "choose for me" and it selected relationship (not sure that even helps).

What do you think does this Tarot apps or websites that give tarot readings work ?

The Relationship spread provides insight into the interaction between two people or entities. It is the spread of choice for questions about partnerships, be they in romance or business. The Rider Waite Tarot is the most widely recognized Tarot deck, and the first deck published in the 20th century. It was created by members of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, and is especially suited to questions of a mystical nature. If you would like your own copy of the Rider Waite Tarot, you can buy it now!

The significator, not shown is the card you have chosen to embody your presence and the focus of the reading. Page of Swords: The essence of air behaving as earth, such as a steady wind: The approach of an unexpected challenge, to be met with clear thought and just action. A person filled with an eager appetite for all matters of mind and logic. The gathering of information through unfaltering vigilance, careful examination, and subtle spycraft. The use of reason or eloquent speech to penetrate the veil of confusion and cut to the heart of the matter.

The card at the top left represents how you see yourself. The High Priestess, when reversed: Being confused and led astray from the true path. Spiritual deception. Overzealous and shallow-minded pursuit of the esoteric. Insecurity, conceit and self-destructiveness. The forces of nature unleashed.

The card at the top right represents how you see your partner. Five of Pentacles (Worry), when reversed: Concern over finance leads to prudent action. Impending physical threat is met with calm and skill. Suffering and loneliness leads to spiritual growth. Stress is met without resorting to excess or the pursuit of oblivion.

The card in the center left represents how you feel about your partner. Knight of Pentacles: The essence of earth behaving as fire, such as molten magma: One slow to action, but decisive and unrelenting once set in motion. A force of nature whose methods are as predictable and dependable as they are unstoppable. The voice of duty, honor, and responsibility. The will to the change the world, not through bold action, but through the thorough and unwavering application of proven means.

The card in the center right represents what stands between you and your partner. Knight of Wands: The essence of fire, such a great conflagration. One filled with vitality and passion for life. A sexy and exciting person, daring in their actions, cocky in their attitude, and utterly without fear. Absolute sincerity, coupled with violent emotions that swing wildly from one extreme to another. Boundless creativity and lust for a change of both pace and place. The rapid approach, or more likely departure, of something that sets your world ablaze. Often suggests travel or escape.

The card in the lower left represents how your partner sees you. The Hierophant: Faith in tradition and the old school. A justified and ancient source of power. Being supportive, sympathetic and loyal. Receiving instructions, learning, guidance or inspiration. The ability to hear a higher or inner voice. May also indicate a religious ritual, such as a marriage or an initiation.

The card in the lower right represents what your partner feels about you. Six of Wands (Victory), when reversed: Arrogance and dangerous overconfidence as the result of a past success. Impudence and false pride in meaningless achievements. Fear of failure coupled with false hopes. Frustration over indefinite delays and motion without progress.

The card in the center represents the present status or challenge of the relationship. Four of Wands (Completion): A chance to rest and rejoice, having successfully resolved a matter of great import. The initial success of a business venture or creative project. The blossoming of a friendship or romantic relationship. Conclusions drawn based on hard won experience. Spiritual, material, or emotional rewards for diligent effort. May suggest marriage, childbirth, or a victory celebration.

Stukov, that was a great reading. It makes me think that maybe my attitude toward Tarot apps extends more from my young relationship with the cards than from any inherent fault in the apps themselves. Or maybe the one I used wasn't that good and I mistakenly passed judgment on tarot apps in general.

@ Stukov, yes it makes sense indeed. And made my view about the divination complete. So it is "the other world" that selects the cards then draws them out with the help of our subconscious. Yes makes sense, especially that I tried some divinations (though not with tarot, but Lenormand cards) during a few invocation rituals I did.
But not sure how to interpret that relationship divination. The other 2 ones I posted make more sense to me. In this one It sounds like I am "friendzoned" and there is a chance that it is going to change soon [lol] .Fortunately that's not the case with me. [happy2]
If seriously though what does it have to do with the question.. I can't see any connection.

BrokenSeeker wrote:Stukov, that was a great reading. It makes me think that maybe my attitude toward Tarot apps extends more from my young relationship with the cards than from any inherent fault in the apps themselves. Or maybe the one I used wasn't that good and I mistakenly passed judgment on tarot apps in general.

I can't speak for all tarot apps, and in any case they are a tool like any other, the app itself is just randomization. The actual act of "magick" is the manipulation of the chaos and random to have something significant that is compelling and recognizable in the noise. Without any intervention, you can randomly get any set of combinations of cards, and any number of these cards can mean something to the diviner or the person being read. There isn't any issue here, if someone can use it to gain insight or help, then nothing is lost and something is gained.

If Don Quixote fights windmills, does it matter if Don thinks these windmills are monsters, so long as he becomes stronger, better, etc while fighting those windmills? Even though the monster doesn't exist, his experience, hard work, and skills was gained and improved. Same thing if you use tarot and its completely random with no intervention.

But if you are able to pass information from the other side you can have much more accurate reads and more helpful information. What you have to remember in becoming better at "reading" is not only improve your connection to the other side, but improve your cognizance of messages.

The reason tarot is something selected is its a language with a set of rules that both sides can easily learn and speak. Imagine you are a being on the other side, someone asks for some information, so you try sending them messages, they don't ever notice them, or think twice about them. Now imagine you both speak the same language so when you send X, they know to look for X, they know what X means, and the message and information is gained. You can't often send pages of information from the other side, so using symbolism that can work on a multi level, can contain a lot of information.

It doesn't mean you have to use tarot, you can develop a personal relationship with a being on the other side, or improve the connection to your higher self. You can come up with your own rules, where if you see X, it might not mean what it means under the rules of tarot, but it means something to you. Messages sent and given are specific to you, something only you can understand.

Either way works, with using a known method of magic from tarot, to the lesser key of Solomon, to even ojiji board you are able to reach a broader audience to assist you as there are more beings and people speaking the same language. The downside is you are more likely to run into call centers (spiritual workers working on behalf of other beings) using well known methods.

RockDemon wrote:But not sure how to interpret that relationship divination. The other 2 ones I posted make more sense to me. In this one It sounds like I am "friendzoned" and there is a chance that it is going to change soon [lol] .Fortunately that's not the case with me. [happy2]
If seriously though what does it have to do with the question.. I can't see any connection.

I was just showing you how to do that with that site, I have no idea if that is accurate at all.

Thank you Stukov very much. You gave a lot of useful information. Even though it is off topic but since you have mentioned it...

Stukov wrote:It doesn't mean you have to use tarot, you can develop a personal relationship with a being on the other side, or improve the connection to your higher self. You can come up with your own rules, where if you see X, it might not mean what it means under the rules of tarot, but it means something to you. Messages sent and given are specific to you, something only you can understand.

Either way works, with using a known method of magic from tarot, to the lesser key of Solomon, to even ojiji board you are able to reach a broader audience to assist you as there are more beings and people speaking the same language. The downside is you are more likely to run into call centers (spiritual workers working on behalf of other beings) using well known methods.

I always wondered ...we use sigils to communicate with "the other beings" or specifically summon them... so they can summon us as well with the sigils or some other methods. Do I get it right ?

RockDemon wrote:I always wondered ...we use sigils to communicate with "the other beings" or specifically summon them... so they can summon us as well with the sigils or some other methods. Do I get it right ?

I guess it slightly depends on the paradigm being used. A sigil in chaos magic wouldn't be the same thing as one in ceremonial. Generally speaking though when you are summoning you are making a connection from yourself to something on the other side. A sigil could be used as something familiar to reach the other side, like a phone number I suppose. It's something recognizable when used to whoever is on the other side. Certain paradigms and rituals have these sorts of things setup and becoming a practitioner is just repeating these steps.

However, since there is no fool proof ID system for beings on the other side there is no guarantee who you call is who you get. Some beings will use "call centers" where other lesser beings are used as a intermediary and will "read off a script" to answer the questions you want, this makes it easy if someone keeps calling the same being with the same answers, that being could setup a servant to do the work so they don't have to, only if there is something off the script would the "call the supervisor" need to occur.

Generally with ceremonial magic its about preforming a ritual that puts you in a certain mindset. Imagine there a certain state of being that makes things you want to do much easier with simpler access. For most people you aren't 100% on all the time, so by creating a ritual that step by step increases you from say 50% ready by 5% or maybe 10%, by the time you finish you have reached 100% attunement and you can do what you wish to accomplish.

Chaos magic is a bit more "do whatever works", which may include a ritual but from my understand other shortcuts are used and borrowed from other paradigms. Both systems have worked for people (as there are more), any more details or intricacies could be answered by practitioners of each.

To go back to your original question, sigils can be used more than just summoning, as you can create sigils for various things. If you create your own, you are basically designing and charging it with your own will (ie you deciding what sort of energy to charge it with and for what purpose). You don't necessarily have to use a sigil to summon. For myself when I was more into working with the other side I was pretty much more 95% on all the time, and would only have to stop and concentrate for a second to get the last 5% and I could reach out and speak to whomever I wanted, or access information on the other side. You could do the same thing if you wanted, but rather than working on rituals, sigils, or whatever else you just focus entirely on yourself. Focusing on opening yourself, strengthening your bond with your higher self (the part of you existing on the other side), general concentration and focus (such as meditation), deep thinking, being retrospective, etc.

There are upsides and downsides too it, and for me was just the method I used and taught myself.

Call centers... that explains a lot.. I wondered " how God is able to listen to all the prayers "

I like the idea of being able to connect to the other side without any specific ritual... That is something to achieve. I was able able a few times to just meditate and then some being started to talk to me, though it happens not by my intent...maybe even behalf on theirs....at such times I feel a kind of an urge to meditate. So I meditate and then bum a being is talking with me. And once I "caught" my higher self talking with a certain spirit without me knowing at all at that time.
Thanks.