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I finally got my illustrated picatrix and started reading it today. In the introduction I found an interesting and somewhat fun passage.

Book 4 chapter 5

The ten sciences that are necessary to this art, and how this science is helped by them, and what is the foundation of the science of magic.

1. Agriculture, seafaring and governing.
2. Leading soldiers, commanding armies, engaging in combat, calling animal and birds and hunting.
3. Grammar, rhetoric, legal reasoning, making reasons, writing, buying and selling.
4. Geometry, surveying, lifting heavy objects, making machines, leading water, aerial instruments, and making and using mirrors.
5. Astronomy.
6. Music, singing, playing and writing notes.
7. Dialectic, which is divided into 8 books by Aristotle.
8. Medicine. Theory and practice
9. Natural science. Which Aristotle and other wise philosophers has set forth.
10. Metaphysics of which Aristotle wrote 30 books.

Whoever thoroughly understands and perfectly learns these things is a complete sage, and will achieve perfection in whatever things he desires.

This is interesting...

I feel like I've got most of this down, but need to work on mastery of a few, mostly governing and music.

Whats interesting is how they are categorized...

The first one seems to be an evolution of society; agriculture to seafaring. Mastering seafaring requires governance, which in turn builds stronger societies.

Then time goes backwards in #2. Generally civilization mastered hunting and working with animals long before warfare.

Then we go forward again in #3. Writing brought about our ability to make contracts and record promises which lead to the creation of currency.

#4 is obvious, the evolution of engineering.

I would think #7 belongs in #3, but perhaps I need to read more Aristotle.

Besides that I think this list is pretty accurate.

*like* [thumbup]

I think I need to get a sailboat, some armies and maybe invade Finland or something.

On a more serious note. Oxford university press has collected all of Aristotle's work into a 5 volume paperback that cost 10 dollars each.

Title - ISBN number
Poetics - 9780199608362
Politics - 9780199538737
Physics - 9780199540280
The Nicomachean Ethics - 9780199213610
The Eudemian Ethics - 9780199586431

Penguin classics divided them into 7 books. 9.50 per book.

The Nicomachean Ethics - 9780140449495
Poetics - 9780140446364
Metaphysics - 9780140446197
The Politics - 9780140444216
De Anima/on the Soul - 9780140444711
The Art of Rhetoric - 9780140445107
The Athenian Constitution - 9780140444315

I've read a few of those, but most of my understanding of Aristotle comes from practical application and how society actually received and understood what he was writing about.

I'm still curious why "Dialect" received its own category. My initial assumption is that bullet #3 covered that.

Perhaps you could enlighten me?

I'm stretching here, but perhaps what the authors of Picatrix meant by #7 is the application of #3 in international relations?

I think I need to get a sailboat, some armies and maybe invade Finland or something.

Poland would present a weaker target, but in all seriousness my time in the military taught me things I could have never learned otherwise. I also realize this isn't an option for everyone. Its generally not an organization that accepts physically or mentally disabled individuals, individuals with criminal records, or incredible amounts of debt. Even then, a lot of people "wash out" due to their inability to give up their ego.

For those people I recommend investigating the reading lists of military academies and autobiographies of soldiers who served in various wars. War has evolved too and its hard to understand modern strategy and tactics without understanding its history.

The Art of War, and books on Bushido and Chivalry are great places to start; preferably texts that discuss the practical application of these ideas.

magari wrote:
I'm still curious why "Dialect" received its own category. My initial assumption is that bullet #3 covered that.

Perhaps you could enlighten me?

I think he is separating them because number 3 deals with worldly problems and number 7 deals with philosophical problems.

Poland would present a weaker target

I don't speak polish.

For those people I recommend investigating the reading lists of military academies and autobiographies of soldiers who served in various wars. War has evolved too and its hard to understand modern strategy and tactics without understanding its history.

They would probably have read Caesar - conquest of gaul, Tacticus - Annals, Titus Livy, Plutarch, and then the military campaigns of Hannibal, Alexander and such.

Which is a good recommendation for us to. Because you get both a history lesson and some military tactic.

FYI, these are also the primary points of education that old royalty had to receive before they were considered prepared for rulership. In other words, you must get your mundane life in order and master the Earth before you can enter the realm of Heaven and become a true Sage, a genuine Adept of the old sort. The standards and needs of this century are slightly different, but working through that list will still be of great benefit. You will literally be studying the curriculum of Kings.

Also, in regards to the books of Aristotle, you can also get the Oxford editions in two hardcover volumes. The two hardcovers together are around the same price as the collection of paperbacks mentioned before:

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Works-Ar ... 69101650X/
http://www.amazon.com/The-Complete-Work ... 691016518/



~:Shin:~

You don't need to speak a local language to conquer it. Just a thought.

Also, quick search revealed...

http://www.history.army.mil/html/books/ ... 1_2011.pdf

and http://www.westpoint.edu/history/siteas ... 202011.doc

Desecrated wrote:

magari wrote:
I'm still curious why "Dialect" received its own category. My initial assumption is that bullet #3 covered that.

Perhaps you could enlighten me?

I think he is separating them because number 3 deals with worldly problems and number 7 deals with philosophical problems.

Definition of Dialect: a particular form of a language that is peculiar to a specific region or social group.

I suppose dialect creates philosophical issues, but again, I only see this being an issue in international relations.

Shinichi wrote:FYI, these are also the primary points of education that old royalty had to receive before they were considered prepared for rulership. In other words, you must get your mundane life in order and master the Earth before you can enter the realm of Heaven and become a true Sage, a genuine Adept of the old sort. The standards and needs of this century are slightly different, but working through that list will still be of great benefit. You will literally be studying the curriculum of Kings.

Also, in regards to the books of Aristotle, you can also get the Oxford editions in two hardcover volumes. The two hardcovers together are around the same price as the collection of paperbacks mentioned before:

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Works-Ar ... 69101650X/
http://www.amazon.com/The-Complete-Work ... 691016518/



~:Shin:~

Well said. Education is what enables us to grow from grubs to caterpillars, to butterflies. Not everyone has the opportunity, not everyone can pass the test. Then there is the impartial nature of the universe which can destroy the best of us in an instant.

Hard work and luck. How many of us forgo one and blame the other, then turn around and subscribe to the conspiracy theory that gives us excuses for our lame existence?

Too many. Its lonely at the top, but not because the system is oppressive, but because it takes a whole plant to produce a single flower.

Dialectics "is a discourse between two or more people holding different points of view about a subject but wish to establish the truth through reasoned arguments."

Rhetoric on the other hand is as the wiki states:
Rhetoric (pronounced /ˈrɛtərɪk/) is the art of discourse, an art that aims to improve the capability of writers or speakers to inform, persuade, or motivate particular audiences in specific situations

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetoric

Philosophy articles on Wikipedia are well written.

So in conclusion one must use his ability to speak to:
a) establish the truth (dialectic)
b) improve oneself (rhetoric)

While dialectics might be used to differentiate between right and wrong, rhetoric is used to explain the difference to the others.

But this list is awesome. It is about time that I read works of Aristotle, not just excerpts.

magari wrote:
Definition of Dialect: a particular form of a language that is peculiar to a specific region or social group.

I suppose dialect creates philosophical issues, but again, I only see this being an issue in international relations.

Yes. But dialect are different from Dialectic. They sound the same but are two different things.

Shinichi wrote:
Also, in regards to the books of Aristotle, you can also get the Oxford editions in two hardcover volumes. The two hardcovers together are around the same price as the collection of paperbacks mentioned before:

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Works-Ar ... 69101650X/
http://www.amazon.com/The-Complete-Work ... 691016518/

This is why I'm so envious of you Americans. 36 dollars for the hardcover.
In Sweden they are charging 62 dollars. Plus shipment.

[gz] [rofl]