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Synchronicity is something that made me crazy for a period of my life. Before I learned of this world I had went on this super memory kick where I was attempting to obtain super genius memory abilities. I began a training which started teaching me to think from my subconscious mind. The subconscious instantly remembers everything it sees at the level of many times all of the computing power in the world put together. This training is meant to unlock the abilities of the subconsciousness consciously.

Side note, the training was working and then I got distracted, and so I'm starting this back up along with my Initiation to Hermetics Training. I'm doing them side by side with the insanity workout in order to become the best I can spiritually, physically, and mentally.

Anyway, when I first started up the training strange things started happening. In the future I'll make a more detailed post about some of my other experiences but I want to talk about this one first...

I don't think the training had anything to do with it other than creating an awareness of my surroundings that wasn't there before. I began noticing a ton of "coincidence" around me. For instance, I would talk about something with my mother, in her car and then minutes later I would hear something related to what we were saying on the radio.

Or, I would be struggling with some life issue, and then turn on the TV and the answer would be right there. Or heck even just offhanded comments.

This may seem unclear... Let me go a bit further. On day I got hit by a bus, while sitting in the hospital with my laptop looking for a lawyer I decided to check out the newest episode of the Simpsons. On that episode Homer said to Ned Flanders "So you hired a lawyer aye? That's pretty aggressive."

I thought I was going crazy. It was happening too often, every day actually. I didn't know what to think? Do I have some sort of powers? Am I some chosen one? Am I coo-coo for cocoa puffs? Then I started telling people about it. Family only, I told them about what was happening and they thought I was crazy. And, then I started pointing out the occurrences.

I'd be like hey you see that sign over there, or your hear what they just said, and how it's related to what we were talking about earlier. Then they started telling me about when it was happening to them. At this point I knew I wasn't crazy because it happens to other people as well, most are just oblivious to it.

Of all of the billions of things we could hear or see at this moment the thing we are experiencing just so happens to be related to some recent past conversation, or idea.

So I began searching the internet to figure out what was going on and I found the Teachings of Carl Jung who I believe coined the term Synchronicity and defined it.

For those of you who still don't really know what I'm talking about, here's a link - http://www.carl-jung.net/synchronicity.html

Sorry for the long winded introduction, I made the post for people who aren't yet aware of this. So my question for you is the same as the topic title, is this phenomena known as synchronicity explained by some occult literature? Maybe it has a different name.

Most places I've read seem to claim that Syncronicity is your subconscious / HGA / God / whatever talking to you directly.

Wow! That's so sweet! Forgive me for my excitement I'm a neophyte to all of this. I had been playing with this for some time where I would pose questions and go out actively looking for answers. It's gotten to the point where it's like a conversation. The only thing is the messages appear in different forms. Some are like suggestions on what I should do. Others are possible future outcomes. Others still are just like chatter, not anything profound being said, but more adding to a conversation.

I was thinking about writing a book on the use of it I've found through my experiments. You know something mainstream audiences could use, and now that I know this It's definitely something worth considering because it's a proof of higher power that even a hardcore atheist couldn't deny once they become aware of it. Like that blue pill red pill thing in the matrix. Once you see you can't unsee.

The only thing stopping me is that not all of the messages are of the good nature. If you believe in such differences as good and bad. Meaning some of the suggestions are to do things that aren't always good in nature. Like one time where I was tempted to steal something that would solve a problem I was facing. I chose not to steal the thing and later I had an opportunity to buy it.

So I don't yet fully understand it and writing a book on it instructing others in it's use would be irresponsible. What if someone get's a message that to hurt others or something? That would be my fault.

I'd say Carl Jung himself is pretty occult, the occult isn't always magick based, it can often just be ideas that were never mainstream. So... lets quickly explore synchronicity...

For an event to have no causal relationship with any preceding event then it needs to happen both purely by coincidence, and in no way that can be linked to any preceding event or action. While lots of events happen through pure coincidence - the finding of a coin, a lost watch, whatever - they aren't necessarily also happening acausally, as someone lost both the coin and watch, and therefore neither object just happened to come into being.

Hmmm.... again, depending on whether you consider maths as occult, ten dimensional space could explain a purely acausal universe?

So do things happen for no reason?

I'm sure that that story line is explored in many different branches of magick - where is the energy used to create an event coming from? Are gods just changing the flow of reality for us? That kind of thing. [grin]

One strange synchronicity that happens to me very often (almost everyday) is when I take my life into control plan what to do everyday for a week ,and so on, then any time I look at the clock it's a number like 11:11 12:12 13:13 etc. But what is synchronicity exactly is hard to say. In my belief everything is connected and happens for a reason.

one-off wrote:and now that I know this It's definitely something worth considering because it's a proof of higher power that even a hardcore atheist couldn't deny once they become aware of it.

No matter how you try, atheist will always find a way to "explain it scientifically" [bored]

one-off wrote:So I don't yet fully understand it and writing a book on it instructing others in it's use would be irresponsible. What if someone get's a message that to hurt others or something? That would be my fault.

You can do like many authors, put a disclaimer with a very little or very big font size at the start of the book [eg]

RockDemon wrote:One strange synchronicity that happens to me very often (almost everyday) is when I take my life into control plan what to do everyday for a week ,and so on, then any time I look at the clock it's a number like 11:11 12:12 13:13 etc. But what is synchronicity exactly is hard to say. In my belief everything is connected and happens for a reason.

I'm pretty sure you can't say something is synchronicity if it happens often, otherwise things like automatically waking up at a certain time each morning would be an example of synchronicity when it's just your inner clock telling you that in a couple of moments the alarm will go off.

What synchronicity is, by definition, is 'the simultaneous occurrence of events which appear significantly related but have no discernible causal connection.' Note an emphasis on the fact that synchronicity has to be acausal - there has to be no reason why you look at the clock and see that that is the time, it has to be a completely random act.

Clockwork_Ghost wrote:

RockDemon wrote:One strange synchronicity that happens to me very often (almost everyday) is when I take my life into control plan what to do everyday for a week ,and so on, then any time I look at the clock it's a number like 11:11 12:12 13:13 etc. But what is synchronicity exactly is hard to say. In my belief everything is connected and happens for a reason.

I'm pretty sure you can't say something is synchronicity if it happens often, otherwise things like automatically waking up at a certain time each morning would be an example of synchronicity when it's just your inner clock telling you that in a couple of moments the alarm will go off.

What synchronicity is, by definition, is 'the simultaneous occurrence of events which appear significantly related but have no discernible causal connection.' Note an emphasis on the fact that synchronicity has to be acausal - there has to be no reason why you look at the clock and see that that is the time, it has to be a completely random act.

Would you please elaborate a bit more. Isn't looking at the clock a random act?

@Clockwork_Ghost

Synchonicity is happening in your life at all times. It's just a matter of how open your perception is to it, and whether or not you're blocking the information out as garbage.

It's more the "happy coincidence."

Don't be an overt pseudo-philosopher here.
That definition you're trying to quote comes from the perspective of a man who was trying to neatly classify an idea that is much more than the short statement he used, and it is not at all tangible.


@RockDemon

Not all Atheists are closed-minded. In fact, a decent portion of the practitioners here are Atheist.
It's those who are programmed who will always justify what you have to say with deluded logic.

Raised- Christians are far more likely to disbelieve acts of magick than Atheists are.

@Haelos, yes I am sorry, I had close-minded materialistic people in my mind while writing that response. But yeah in general anyone can be close-minded no matter atheist or theist.

@Clockwork_Ghost

I'm not familiar with the mathematics of ten dimensional space. But, I just recently got 10 books I'm going to go through as a crash course on algebra, physics, quantum physics, mechanical electronics, mechanical hardware/software programming.

The quantum physics is to help me become a stronger wizard through the IIH training. I also intend to build a robot and try and insert an elemental servant into it. Hopefully with my servant being able to move the robot. I'm calling the field quantum robotics if any of you want to get a jump on cutting edge technology.

Anyway, I'm sure I'll run across that in my studies. The physics and engineering should only take about 2 years to learn.

I do believe math to be "occult" and can be linked since math is a law governing the universe and was discovered not created.

As far as your examples of finding something. Say I drop a 50 dollar bill and you find it when you were in desperate need of 50 dollars to pay some bill. That's not really synchronicity more of a law of attraction thing.

The difference being synchronicity is more advice/message/conversationally based.

For instance I was struggling with the concept of what is greatness. I read about all of these great people and what they had in common, but I felt like something was missing. Then on a commercial I hear a guy say "Greatness isn't a technique it's an attitude." That's when I realized I had been looking for technical advice on how to be great. Like a step by step system when in fact I should have been focused on general outlooks on life.

It's strong at church by the way. I get personal messages every single time I go there, and it's always related to a current situation I'm having. Regardless of what church I go to, but I don't attend church very often. I don't agree with all of the philosophies related to servitude since I don't believe in slavery. We'll at least enslaving myself. I'm black after all

I'm sure that that story line is explored in many different branches of magick - where is the energy used to create an event coming from? Are gods just changing the flow of reality for us? That kind of thing

Yeah, that's what I'm really curious about. I would love an explanation of the process. From what I read the cosmos is governed by celestial beings who control fate. Zeus and them if I'm not mistaken, and I've been reading on this forum how people are capable of communicating with them directly. So it would be a simple matter to just ask. Also, it may have nothing to do with them and the energy could be coming from a different place entirely. My local guardians from Christianity possibly.

@Rockdemon

Thanks for the suggestion. Based off of the last thing I wrote to clockwork I'll wait until I'm at the level of talking to higher powers without the use of the proxy known as synchronicity that everyone else has access to. That way I can write the book in it's entirety.

@one-off

Yes, if you consider synchronicity to be a communication between you and your HGA (which sounds truthful to me as well) will be a useless thing for example at the end of the IIH.

Sometimes I don't think synchronicity is real at all. It's actually compatibility, and good team work between two instances. Yet they're so rare in everyday life that you'd think it's a matter of chance. And that makes no sense, yet we're all .. a bunch of people, in existence by chance, hurtling through "space" on a rock. There's only two ways to look at it. If you accept what's supposedly real, everything's happened by chance which means it's all coming from a random generator. Otherwise, if you can look at it deeply, and believe that nothing on this plane is happening by chance, you'll realize that everything is already in synchronicity and has been for as far as you can go.

When I started with sigil magic; synchronization and serendipity started happening to me all the time. Especially with words.

My own thinking is that this is happening to us all the time because we are living in a society that absolutely bombards us with messages.
The change really comes when we start to open up ourself to the universe through magic and we finally see all the connections that has always been there. We start to see the "occult" (occult = hidden from sight).

But then again, I'm just a close-minded atheist, so what the hell do I know.

cyberdemon wrote:Sometimes I don't think synchronicity is real at all. It's actually compatibility, and good team work between two instances. Yet they're so rare in everyday life that you'd think it's a matter of chance. And that makes no sense, yet we're all .. a bunch of people, in existence by chance, hurtling through "space" on a rock. There's only two ways to look at it. If you accept what's supposedly real, everything's happened by chance which means it's all coming from a random generator. Otherwise, if you can look at it deeply, and believe that nothing on this plane is happening by chance, you'll realize that everything is already in synchronicity and has been for as far as you can go.

That's a very good point you bring up. Another issue is frequency. For me I get them everyday. Like earlier today I made a joke about being black to someone in my house and not a second later the words "black friday" were said on tv. I could take that as a sign to look out for something happening on black friday, or it just being random chatter, or to go buy something that day.

I've really ruled out random chance due to the frequency of occurrences. Also, I've experimented with it by following twitter feeds. It's really cool. Find a celebrity that you're really fond of and look at their twitter. Focus on some specific thing and then watch something related turn up on their twitter feed within 48 hours. This experiment probably has less to do with synchronicity and more to do with hive-mind though. Which is a different thing I've experimented with and I'll make a post about in the future.

Anyway, I don't chalk it up t random chance because I actively can use it. Other people can too I'm assuming. I've never actually had someone else try it out. For most, it's a thing that passively just happens to them. If for no other reason than people have not tried to actively use it.

I've spent hours on this forum reading about people experiences with relationships to spiritual beings, and it seems that everything isn't even across the board. I had this idea that spirits regard humans equally and evenly, but different people can be liked more and shown more favor by different spiritual beings.

I say this to lead into my next point which is I don't know if my results could be replicated now. They should be though since my family members are able to receive messages on the regular like I am. But, if this is a HGA type of deal, then me and my family may have something assigned to it that other's don't.

So in regards to your "relationship of two instances" I might be twisting your meaning a bit to fit my understanding, but I can see this being possible that the relationship I'm experiencing isn't the same relationship Joe Schmo down the road will have. Or even someone else on this forum. Only an experiment will tell the truth.

Are you open to experimentation Cyberdemon?

I really hope this isn't an individual relationship type of system. I would love to share it with the world without having to hear skeptics simply because the thing in their system doesn't want to contact them on the regular.

Also, I'm not sure if it is just something undiscovered like math used to be which is a law governing the universe instead of an energy specifically fitted to individuals. That's why I asked what was known here in this world about it. Before this discussion to me it was just something called Synchronicity, but the first reply here has me believing it to be something that is being moved with intent since there is somewhat of a consensus in that direction, and I'm a neophyte.

While I'm typing I may as well detail the experiment for you guys. Take one of the life issues that you have. Be it a problem, a question, or something you just generally want to get advice on. Then go to your television or turn on the radio and listen with the intent to hear advice to your problem. You'll most likely receive something within 30 minutes or so.

The answer won't appear like it's talking to you obviously. Your radio won't be all like "Hey one-off, the answer is x!" That would be nice, but a bit creepy haha.

Great TV shows that deliver consistently are The Simpsons, and Family Guy. Especially new episodes. I remember one time I was researching how to get more iron while being on a diet designed for maximum muscle growth and settled on iron supplements. Then at the end of that week on the Simpsons they had a whole episode about Lisa having an iron deficiency due to her vegetarian diet and how she went about getting some.

But, if you go about your day with an open awareness you can passively get the messages from anywhere. Overhearing something while other people are talking. Street Signs, the radio (music, commercials, and the broadcasters), tv (the shows and commercials), and just about any other means where communication can occur.

A skeptic would say that it's random and because you're looking for an answer you're bound to find one. That's a valid point, but it does not negate the fact that you find answers consistently. I believe random and consistent can't be related to the same event. Now as far as you finding the events because you're looking for them, if you don't look for them they still happen to you. I know because when I thought I was going crazy I tried to make it stop by not thinking about it, but I can't turn off awareness. It's like trying to not see while your eyes are open. And honestly, what are the odds that you just happen to hear a specific communication related specifically to the thing that concerned you the most in that short of a time frame, over, and over, and over again?

Even if it's just once a day for you it seems impossible that of the limited number of experiences you can have within that 24 hour period that one of them consistently is tailored to advice on your issue.

@Desecrated

When I started with sigil magic; synchronization and serendipity started happening to me all the time. Especially with words.

My own thinking is that this is happening to us all the time because we are living in a society that absolutely bombards us with messages.
The change really comes when we start to open up ourself to the universe through magic and we finally see all the connections that has always been there. We start to see the "occult" (occult = hidden from sight).

But then again, I'm just a close-minded atheist, so what the hell do I know.

Could you explain a bit further? I don't want to misinterpret. Do you think that it's because we get enough messages from society that one "has" to be related to the words of the concern? You seem to be experiencing them on the regular like me. Let's say in a given day we get maybe i don't know... a 40 thousand word book is maybe a 3 hour audio book. So we multiply that by 8 to get 24 for a 24 hour day. 40k x8 = 320 thousand words we hear in a day. Many repeated if a person were sitting listening to words the entire 24 hour day... It's more like 15 hours if a person sleeps 9 hours a night. so it;s 40kx5=200k. Then lets say they spend half of their time talking and not listening. That's 100k words a person hears on a single day.

Now that doesn't include periods of silence, but what ever bear with me. 100k words. In these we have to gauge the odds of those words being ordered in a specific manner to give you enlightenment to your specific problem. Let's keep it passive so we look at it as you just noticing the occurrence, and not you looking for an answer in order to rule out anything like a person forming conclusions based off of nothing to fit their perspective.

How many different ways can these hundred thousand words be organized to make coherent messages? How many messages can a person receive. Coherance can be hard to factor because we don't know what these 100k words are and how many could be repeated. These 100k words could be any word in the english dictionary repeated any number of times up to 100k (very unlikely but a possibility if someone is doing some weird brainwash type shit were they just hear the same word over and over...)

Let's do english. There is an estimated 1,025,109.8 words in the English Language. any one of these could be repeated one hundred thousand times in any given day. So how many possible combinations is that? It's 1,025,109.8 to the POWER of 100k...Serendipity has it's limits man.

BTW, I'm glad you're an atheist I wanted to ask one what their stance is on all of this. Do you believe that spirits and separate realms don't exist, but you still practice magick which has paradigms that have practical steps for interacting with spirits that you could test out. Is it that you haven't tried it and waved it off or did you try it with no results. I'm just curious.

one-off wrote:
Great TV shows that deliver consistently are The Simpsons, and Family Guy. Especially new episodes. I remember one time I was researching how to get more iron while being on a diet designed for maximum muscle growth and settled on iron supplements. Then at the end of that week on the Simpsons they had a whole episode about Lisa having an iron deficiency due to her vegetarian diet and how she went about getting some.

hahahahahaha, I ordered iron pills yesterday, because I've been feeling a little tired lately.
Seems like the universe agrees with my diagnosis

I made an edit to my last post that I'd like you to respond to if you have the time.

That's awesome to hear. I'd love you're input on the odd's I put up vs what just happened. And what do you feel is responsible for this specifically.

You had 1 in over a million to the power of 100k odds for that to happen today, and yet it did. While we were talking about it no less.

one-off wrote:

Let's do english. There is an estimated 1,025,109.8 words in the English Language. any one of these could be repeated one hundred thousand times in any given day. So how many possible combinations is that? It's 1,025,109.8 to the POWER of 100k...Serendipity has it's limits man.

There is a lot of words in English that isn't used in everyday language. But yes, I fell like the synchronization and serendipity that happens to a magic user is higher then just random chance would be.
There seems to be some sort of flow in the universe that we can tap into. And a lot of people likes to put an intelligence to that flow, because it feels so strong and so personally directed towards us that we almost must assume that it is intelligent.
I however, don't like that idea, so I simply don't subscribe to the idea of an intelligent creator.

BTW, I'm glad you're an atheist I wanted to ask one what their stance is on all of this. Do you believe that spirits and separate realms don't exist, but you still practice magick which has paradigms that have practical steps for interacting with spirits that you could test out. Is it that you haven't tried it and waved it off or did you try it with no results. I'm just curious.

For me, atheism is "without god(s)". I know a lot of American militant skeptics would love atheism to include the disbelief of anything that isn't pure mathematics.
But I've lived too long and seen too much to believe in such a narrow universe.

Separate realms can also be explained as nothing else then our internal realms visualized. Of course I can't prove that, so I'm open to the idea that it is in fact real, but I also like to keep the possibility of an overactive imagination.

I think that you will find 3 kind of persons on this forum.
Those that believes that spirits are 100% real.
Those that believes that our perception of spirits differ depending on the individual. Meaning that they are "real", but they live in a different reality then ours and when we try to communicate with them, in this reality, we get some distortion, meaning that our experience influences our way of seeing reality.
And those that believe that spirits are nothing but our own projections.

The interesting thing about the last one is that the illusion of life is so complete that I can't determine if it is real or not. If I'm working with a spirit I can't say for certain that it is real, or that it is just a fiction of my imagination, but I've noticed a much higher success rate if I deal with it as it's being real.

But I'm open to the interpretation that in reality, I'm batshit insane, this isn't even a real forum, you don't exist , and right now I'm yelling at the wall in a asylum.

RockDemon wrote: Would you please elaborate a bit more. Isn't looking at the clock a random act?

It definitely can be, but I know that I always seem to look at the clock around 5pm out of habit because thats when I can say I've finished work. I work by myself, so don't have other people reminding me its almost home time, but for some reason I always seem to look at the clock between 5pm and half past. Is this synchronicity? Its more likely a learned habit.

Haelos wrote:@Clockwork_Ghost

Synchonicity is happening in your life at all times. It's just a matter of how open your perception is to it, and whether or not you're blocking the information out as garbage.

It's more the "happy coincidence."

Don't be an overt pseudo-philosopher here.
That definition you're trying to quote comes from the perspective of a man who was trying to neatly classify an idea that is much more than the short statement he used, and it is not at all tangible.

I stand corrected. [grin]

cyberdemon wrote:Sometimes I don't think synchronicity is real at all. It's actually compatibility, and good team work between two instances. Yet they're so rare in everyday life that you'd think it's a matter of chance. And that makes no sense, yet we're all .. a bunch of people, in existence by chance, hurtling through "space" on a rock. There's only two ways to look at it. If you accept what's supposedly real, everything's happened by chance which means it's all coming from a random generator. Otherwise, if you can look at it deeply, and believe that nothing on this plane is happening by chance, you'll realize that everything is already in synchronicity and has been for as far as you can go.

I think you're confusing chance and randomness with causal and acausal actions. All things can be said to have happened as a result of other things happening before them - thats causality, each event happening as a direct result of the events that preceeded it. Chance and randomness can still be causal - something happened to cause the result, it didnt happen in vitrio. For something to be truly synchronous it needs to happen without causal inference, as in it needs to happen for no predictable reason. Yes, this is possible - you may sit on a seat next to a bank and have a safe fall from the window onto your head, that action wouldnt be the result of you sitting on that bench, but it would still happen as a result of other events leading up to it.

Lots of semi-random things happen all the time, and the argument can be made that nothing is causal and is instead fated, but true synchronicity? Hmm... I'm not convinced such a thing exists still...

I don't know if I would even want to believe that the world was 100% synchronous. That'd imply that I don't have free will, and I'm destined to go down some fated path like a puppet on a string.

That seems so...boring.

I see it more as a path which has infinite number of forks representing what you choose to do in your 24 hour day (infinite relative to what you're capable of doing with your current situation in life), and those choices create new (or the same) choice options in the next day. You can affect opportunities and experiences based off of evolutionary karma, and the words you choose to think, say, or write...every single one of them. You also have the ability to gain advice through Synchronicity.

Desecrated wrote:

one-off wrote:

Let's do english. There is an estimated 1,025,109.8 words in the English Language. any one of these could be repeated one hundred thousand times in any given day. So how many possible combinations is that? It's 1,025,109.8 to the POWER of 100k...Serendipity has it's limits man.

There is a lot of words in English that isn't used in everyday language. But yes, I fell like the synchronization and serendipity that happens to a magic user is higher then just random chance would be.
There seems to be some sort of flow in the universe that we can tap into. And a lot of people likes to put an intelligence to that flow, because it feels so strong and so personally directed towards us that we almost must assume that it is intelligent.
I however, don't like that idea, so I simply don't subscribe to the idea of an intelligent creator.

And I respect that. In this world we all have to seek our own truths. It's easier for me to ascribe it to an intelligent creator than just a pure universal energy flow because I have a basis in Christianity. I first believed and feared god, then I went through a rebellious youth and decided that there was no god after learning science, finally awareness like this and some experiments I've done lead me back to god as the explanation since science fails to explain this.

We both reached the same point, and I've often struggled with determining if it's a mindless energy vs an intelligence vs something like a computer program which can't act outside a set of predetermined rules like the subconsciousness... immensely powerful, but unthinking in the conscious sense.

Like you said there is a way to explain away everything, so how do we determine the truth? It's almost like the truth is whatever you want to believe. So I've decided my truth falls along the theory that I am an individual connected to everyone else, and we all exist independently in the physical realm. Individual souls, individual spirits which are linking to a source spirit that connects us all.

The astral plane, and projections...I'm reserving my truths of that until I visit and interact with them myself.

Great stuff guys I appreciate it. From what I gather the schools of thought are in favor of an intelligent presence in the synchronicity. There are counter arguments of it being a universal flow without intellect, and one of it possibly being entirely synchronous with no free will. The odds are too astronomical for me to ever believe it's random. Especially with the regularity that it occurs with me.

I like the idea of an intellect because it makes me feel safer from any dangerous spirits. Like I can rely on something that is watching my back. Then again, with all of the suffering in the world it's just as likely that it's an unintelligent force. The fact is that something is happening though.

I wanted to see what the magick view was in regards to what's widely accepted to be true, and the first answer I got was of the god variety. Which is what I was hoping for. So for me I'm going to choose to believe it's intelligent. After all... even Desecrated said while working with spirits he get's a better result by treating them as if they are real. So it's possible that treating this force as if it's an intelligent God will generate better results as well. So why not? Either way, I'm still getting great personalized advice and messages from an external source. Whether I want the advice or not haha.

Clockwork_Ghost wrote:

cyberdemon wrote:Sometimes I don't think synchronicity is real at all. It's actually compatibility, and good team work between two instances. Yet they're so rare in everyday life that you'd think it's a matter of chance. And that makes no sense, yet we're all .. a bunch of people, in existence by chance, hurtling through "space" on a rock. There's only two ways to look at it. If you accept what's supposedly real, everything's happened by chance which means it's all coming from a random generator. Otherwise, if you can look at it deeply, and believe that nothing on this plane is happening by chance, you'll realize that everything is already in synchronicity and has been for as far as you can go.

I think you're confusing chance and randomness with causal and acausal actions. All things can be said to have happened as a result of other things happening before them - thats causality, each event happening as a direct result of the events that preceeded it. Chance and randomness can still be causal - something happened to cause the result, it didnt happen in vitrio. For something to be truly synchronous it needs to happen without causal inference, as in it needs to happen for no predictable reason. Yes, this is possible - you may sit on a seat next to a bank and have a safe fall from the window onto your head, that action wouldnt be the result of you sitting on that bench, but it would still happen as a result of other events leading up to it.

Lots of semi-random things happen all the time, and the argument can be made that nothing is causal and is instead fated, but true synchronicity? Hmm... I'm not convinced such a thing exists still...

And that's why I said that sometimes I don't think synchronicity is real at all. I suppose, the otherwise, that for something to be in sync from the beginning there must have been a cause from the very start. Is it a definition? I don't know. Can we say that the fact that the safe falling from the window onto one's head was a random event? Of course not. Sure, someone else could've been sitting there, but the universe went in such a way that it had to happen to you. That's synchronicity. The falling itself is an instance, at random. Falling ON someone is when this "someone" is another instance. Two different instances working together. Causality therefore is nothing but an instance or a series of events, synchronicity is how two series of events come together.

one-off wrote:So in regards to your "relationship of two instances" I might be twisting your meaning a bit to fit my understanding, but I can see this being possible that the relationship I'm experiencing isn't the same relationship Joe Schmo down the road will have. Or even someone else on this forum. Only an experiment will tell the truth.

Are you open to experimentation Cyberdemon?

That's exactly what I mean.
If one same instance is applied to two other instances, what is the result? If the one same instance is applied twice to another instance, what is the result? These are where the deviations start. But if synchronicity is real, the effects are all pre-calculated or calculable, following a formula and won't go outside it.

Of course I am. The majority of what I know for sure regarding the occult comes from experimentation.

Also, I'm not sure if it is just something undiscovered like math used to be which is a law governing the universe instead of an energy specifically fitted to individuals. That's why I asked what was known here in this world about it. Before this discussion to me it was just something called Synchronicity, but the first reply here has me believing it to be something that is being moved with intent since there is somewhat of a consensus in that direction, and I'm a neophyte.

Intent is a different matter. It depends on whether "fate" and "synchronicity" are interchangeable, which ideally shouldn't be. If they are, then nothing one does matters because the results are predetermined and we are merely observers. That's one sign of synchronicity. But as proven by practitioners, intent does have an impact on the result. Cause and causality. To find synchronicity in this manner is difficult but not impossible. What caused the cause? Since this cause isn't Fundamental (ie. what caused the cause of the start of the universe?), it can have its own cause. How did the instance of this cause come into being? How did this cause affect another instance and to what purpose? And so on. Either way, synchronicity must have had a beginning.

Desecrated wrote: But then again, I'm just a close-minded atheist, so what the hell do I know.

Desecrated and anyone who reads this topic, I am sorry for the statement I did above.

And in fact we've have similar views on this.

RockDemon wrote:In my belief everything is connected and happens for a reason.

Desecrated wrote: see all the connections that has always been there

Clockwork_Ghost wrote:

RockDemon wrote: Would you please elaborate a bit more. Isn't looking at the clock a random act?

It definitely can be, but I know that I always seem to look at the clock around 5pm out of habit because thats when I can say I've finished work. I work by myself, so don't have other people reminding me its almost home time, but for some reason I always seem to look at the clock between 5pm and half past. Is this synchronicity? Its more likely a learned habit.

Ah yes now I understand. But I don't have a habit to look at the clock at a certain time. My example was about randomly looking at it and getting a number like 11:11 this. It can be at 15:15 and others.

one-off wrote: I wanted to see what the magick view was in regards to what's widely accepted to be true, and the first answer I got was of the god variety. Which is what I was hoping for. So for me I'm going to choose to believe it's intelligent. After all... even Desecrated said while working with spirits he get's a better result by treating them as if they are real. So it's possible that treating this force as if it's an intelligent God will generate better results as well. So why not? Either way, I'm still getting great personalized advice and messages from an external source. Whether I want the advice or not haha.

Yeah, that makes sense, If you believe in a god, you should probably work with a god. I think belief is a very strong motivational force to have at your disposal.