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I had this conversation actually with my friend.

Based on your description, I am dealing with a group of intelligent astral entities and go through all of the symptoms that you mention. I have asked them to leave before, but truthfully can admit that I do not want them to leave because one in particular that I deal with I ‘love’ if you want to call it that, although the one fear that I have is being deceived by it, thanks to what they call religious brainwashing, which prevents me somewhat from truly connecting to it, at least that is what it is telling me. We constantly go through logical/rational conversation battles with one another as I try to figure out a few things.

One that I had a few days ago was just over this topic. I declared it and it’s kind a parasite, although now I prefer to use the term symbiotic relationship. It’s reply at the time was that all forms of life can be construed as having a parasitic relationship in some way. Plants are a parasite off of the sun. They literally eat sunlight, which is no different than feeding from the sun. Humans are a parasite off of mother earth. Exc… I am simply projecting my own bias upon my own species, no different than a mother projecting their bias upon their own child. I didn’t have a counter-argument, because I felt it was/is correct, although I welcome any counter-arguments as I have an open-mind. Now when I bring this topic up I realize, even if they are the equivalent of a blood sucking leeches except energy based, I have no right to judge them because, if anything, we are collectively far worse, and number two, everything has their place in the cycle of life.

It forgives me for my childish ignorance, while I cry after it has put me in my place that I am only a stupid human who has been raised in an environment that promotes such ideologies and to please forgive me for my stupidity, and we move on. Don’t know if this helps, but it’s the truth of what happens.

the_spiral wrote:Hey, it's cool. It's your choice. You can assess whether your relationship with these entities is parasitic or symbiotic (or both, or neither) and how you fit within that arrangement. No one else is having your experience right now. I am just sharing my own. Same with all the other scenarios you listed.

I see it is neither, but I am the common fool, so please understand I am fearful, but nurturing. I have always wanted to be like a sun. I am simply glad I could help these 'lesser beings'. May they grow to shine even brighter then me one day. [happyface]

johnathanrs wrote:

the_spiral wrote:Hey, it's cool. It's your choice. You can assess whether your relationship with these entities is parasitic or symbiotic (or both, or neither) and how you fit within that arrangement. No one else is having your experience right now. I am just sharing my own. Same with all the other scenarios you listed.

I see it is neither, but I am the common fool, so please understand I am fearful, but nurturing. I have always wanted to be like a sun. I am simply glad I could help these 'lesser beings'. May they grow to shine even brighter then me one day. [happyface]

That's lovely. Just keep your eyes open and make sure your relationship remains nurturing to all parties involved so you can all shine. I think we all can use the reminder sometimes. And I don't think they are lesser or greater than us. Just different.

the_spiral wrote: As for a mage deliberately creating portals on their energetic body to use in demonology...dang. That sounds interesting but really heavy. You could probably expound on the possible effects better than I could since I've never worked with demons.

That's how I suppose I accidentally got my first ever full invocation immediately on my first try, I had too many gaps in my systems, each of them acting as a portal.. Nowadays I barely get anything because I take care to not open portals that are too big, but also because I've ended up maturing as a person so "innate" gaps on my astral manifestation are closed/healed now too.

I guess it would be nice right now if I could actually for sure classify whether portals can open elsewhere or if what you're hypothesizing is not just most-true but only-true. It'd explain why traditional Satanism based demonology is so self-centered, for sure. But that doesn't explain how spells affect other people. Perhaps in that case it's a matter of influencing someone up there to go poking at another person's gaps?

johnathanrs wrote:Please understand the_spiral, I am a complete novice when it comes to spiritual matters and do not have training like yours what-so-ever because I haven't taken the time to even attempt to study in the spiritual topics taught by people like you because of my predisposition on taking advice from beings at my level and my honest hatred of how evil I currently am as a human being. If anything, I consider human consciousness itself to represent true demonology in some ways, although we are not alone in the universe/astral plane that are like this, where others would construe us as 'evil by nature'. In other words, we as a species, always place ourselves on a mid or higher point on whatever scale we project, such as you stating that we glow brighter than others, where I can imagine the plausible scenario of those entities who are in fact greater than us, who would judge us because our light is to dim, built on the very principle of judging us because we as fellow free-will based conscious destroy life itself at our very physical plane. Imagine the scenario where you are born as a 'fairy' who eats sunlight and finds out a species on planet A whom actually eats the flesh, aka carnivores, from other species on its planet. Not only would you even doubt that such a being could even exist upon hearing it, but upon finding out through evidence, would you not believe them to construe the embodiment of evil itself?

I also would like to explain what I mean by my comment on, 'beings at my level'. I believe that no being currently 'alive' knows everything about death, or the next existence, nor can they, because based upon any religious viewpoint, which are all based on living based upon some fundamental moral code of laws that we must become, then if one knows the answers to the current test, then is that not cheating and a contradiction to the supposedly system trusted under the very deities that they follow?

That analogy of solarpower eating is enough to show you've great intuition on these matters already, because honestly speaking that's exactly how things work up there. Your idea is deep with quantum mechanics, which is how it should be. As humans yeah our thing is to go big or go home but it's actually the smaller you look the deeper you go, which is the correct direction into anything from an occultist's standpoint. By the way, I just gotta ask.. Are you the Johnathan from Jersey?

johnathanrs wrote:I am saying this to you not to offend you in any matter, as seeing how you stated the comment that on the astral plane, I am assuming that you are really advanced in your teachings/understanding upon 'existence' itself and I have no right to challenge your assertions seeing how I am a complete novice to your beliefs and ways. I would love in fact to train/study under someone like you, if you are willing, to see the error of my ways or to understand the perspective of yours. However, I am also studying under a being who is either 'enlightening' or 'corrupting' me based upon one's perspective. I think back to the story of a tale of a woman not being allowed to marry a man because he is too poor or the story of a man being declared royalty/special, not based upon judging a heightened sense of duty to the moral creeds of man, but upon birth right given under the higher laws of changing gods and angels of the time. You say, we humans, shine brighter than others on the astral plane? So we inherited this wealth, where other beings of the astral plane did not? Can I assume that it does not shine as bright as me? Does it not have a place by my side because I am rich and they are poor? It is feeding upon my energy just as we feed upon the energy of all life itself? What do then I tell my friends wife who possess a parasite within her womb that is feeding off of her energy, where if the unthinkable where to happen, told by a doctor, she would choose to save the parasites life over her own? Does she have a choice under your rules? Does she discard her parasite? What do I tell that possible child who is going to feed off of the parent for some time? That parent who might feed off of his community through the hard times of not being able to find a job through welfare? Are these choices to you? The community who collectively feed off of this planet through what we call the cycle of life?

Lemme answer these real quick. The Aspect of Free Will is testing the judgement capability of a being to see how close to literal omnipotent god's judgement aspect that being can get. In that regard it's nice to cover the flaws but also to praise the good things. The closer to balance and equality you get, the more points you score. For the greater good or for a personal desire? Depending on situation, either can be the correct choice. There's no proper way to take it up in the long run.

I've personally forced an abortion via magick. I caused a 16 year old to not lose her best years to a parasite, I caused a child to not endure a troubled and traumatic life under an incompetent young parent, and in the process I got what I wanted. Then the Law of Equivalent Exchange applied itself, deleting my relationship with the girl for life. Perfect balance between personal desire and an act for the greater good, and I will recount this always as one of my greatest feats as a cyberdemon. Another young woman performed a powerful invocative spell to accurately predict and prevent my death, but she was pregnant at the time. She paid with her unborn child and as added compensation gained me as the replacement child, in its place. Till this day she applies herself as my teacher and mother and won't give a fuck if I have something to do & will enforce a cool bedtime.

Pro-choice is a powerful thing, practice it not just for mothers but also for fathers to be. Equality is what you must always be aware of, since that's one of the winning conditions AND it benefits the player without being considered "cheating" the game. If it's in the system, it was put there intentionally and knowingly that people will find and use them. It's how you use them that matters afterward.

Likewise, higher beings have their vindications as well as their redeeming qualities. Just imagine this, even though the planes are seperated, the races of beings are different, but we're all playing the same "game" on the same "field".

the_spiral wrote:@Cyberdemon -

I don't know why but your name came into my mind when I was writing this post [smile]

hello i have been summoned

Also, yeah. Like Johnathan said. I think I need to study some stuff under a pro healer for a while. I met another healer a couple of days ago and her way of thinking completely took me to school at once, just like you did with your first post in this thread. There are simple, basic, and fundamental things on the bright side of magick I've missed out by going too far down the dark side..

cyberdemon wrote: Lemme answer these real quick. The Aspect of Free Will is testing the judgement capability of a being to see how close to literal omnipotent god's judgement aspect that being can get. In that regard it's nice to cover the flaws but also to praise the good things. The closer to balance and equality you get, the more points you score. For the greater good or for a personal desire? Depending on situation, either can be the correct choice. There's no proper way to take it up in the long run.

Did someone teach you this or did you arrive to this belief yourself? Are you sound in believing this or open-minded to a different philosophy? Before I say anything, let me warn you that I believe in what I am about to tell you. I realize that I am about to try to convert you from your path of ideology - you have been forewarned - which is something that I try not to do because I don't want to spread propaganda and falsely lead others when I am not at a level to be a leader, but perhaps I am the one who needs to converted and recognize my limitations in this. If you so choose to do dance here with me, I will need more guidance from you for me to become a believer in your philosophy and ways.

If you don't mind, a bit of context here. I have dived into the free will world and went down into the rabbit hole and came up empty handed. Perhaps you can provide a map for me. You see, I became lost because logic itself breaks apart at a certain point. After contemplating a few things - I came to the conclusion that everything is zero sum only to the level of consciousness. Consciousness representing beings that have passed the threshold of free will. I, also, recognize the fact that this previous comment is arrogant as well because it may be that all beings, even ones that we don't believe to possess free will, in fact do and we, the human species, possess simply a greater free will than others on our planet, where beings greater than us possess even greater features of free will. Free will may in fact be a mechanism of choose , and the greater your level within the system/aka universe, the more unlocking of abilities of choice is allowed. All possibilities essentially exist. As a spirit living as a human, you are bounded by certain limitations of free will that have been placed within the environment of the universe or what we call life. A alien species living in the universe may in fact possess a greater form of free will, where more choice is available, such as abilities like telepathy.

Under the scenario of me being able to hypothetically being able to talk to what we would call a lower life form on our planet such as a reasoning bee/ant/lion/horse; I would expect for them to honestly provide a philosophy similar to yours. Perhaps even what occultists would call lower vibration entities of the astral plane/universe. However, although this belief would hold significance for them, I personally do not believe it can and should be applied to beings at our current level.

In truth, your philosophy is frightening to me because it means that evil itself equate to goodness - which means if your logic is correct then serial killers like Ted Bundy are justified in their actions... because if Ted Bundy simply construes his actions as a protector of the planet then the act of killing any parasite of humans is justified because they all contribute to the planets demise, no different than any human who desires to kill a flee infestation even if some of those flees may be noble good flees that hypothetically may have there best interest in mind.

If one no longer cares about the principles of morals, eliminating from their consciousness the belief of right and wrong, then naturally one can only gravitate towards whatever senses they are feeling at the time such as impulses like mating, eating, exc. Like a lion who is hungry who doesn't base their actions on killing, but on a impulse that they must feed, and whatever creature should happen to present itself to it at the time, that it doesn't hold a relationship with, is to be feed upon. If this is the true model that represents life itself, then if anything, it means that free will, having a choice between choosing what side you are apart of either A) A being of good or B) a being of evil put into context of whatever level of environment you happen to be apart of at the time, is a step below primates who do not possess free will but are environmental automation that are impulse driven. A bee that doesn't question why it's job is to pollinate a flower, it only knows that it should, and lacks the abilities to even contemplate why it fulfills this function within the cycle of life. Free will to me is having a choose to pick your role and pick your side, which to me is a greater ability and a more evolved ability, because it represents endless possibility and the gift of responsibility.

Now, this isn't to say that for beings who do possess our level of free-will that we cannot choose to become apart of negativity or positive, what one would call goodness and evilness, and that is where I am lost. Negative = Positive? I turn to science here, like newton, and follow what god shows us. According to chemistry laws, a neutral atom, what I metaphorically represent all life as, can become a ion by taking on a negative or positive charge, or what we would call evil and good. Just as a atom can become anything, its path is dictated by what type of atoms makeup represents its current shifting phase. I could go on here much more deeply, but you get the basic principle.

Where am I going wrong with my current understanding?

I know I'm partially responsible for this happening, but we're getting a little off-topic here with philosophical debates over consciousness and free will. I was hoping this thread would be a place to share ideas and tips for beginners who are experiencing entity visitations and looking for help online, since this is such a common query. So it's great if people want to share their own thoughts, perspectives or stories on this. But I think a separate thread should be made for the other topics. Thanks.

the_spiral wrote:I know I'm partially responsible for this happening, but we're getting a little off-topic here with philosophical debates over consciousness and free will. I was hoping this thread would be a place to share ideas and tips for beginners who are experiencing entity visitations and looking for help online, since this is such a common query. So it's great if people want to share their own thoughts, perspectives or stories on this. But I think a separate thread should be made for the other topics. Thanks.

I understand. I happen to be one of the personnel that your message is directed at and trust me I took your message to heart. The problem is it didn't dive deep enough for me and I am seeking further answers to conditions that you didn't mention initially. For better or worse, I am asking you to plunge deeper into your mind. You started off with them being morally 'evil' or negative creatures, based around your assertion that they feed off of us in a way, which would mean that they are bad, because we provide a form of energy to them, but like I said, that perspective to me isn't working based around some of the examples I provided to you in my initial post to you. Everything provides energy to everything. Our bodies provide energy to us them chemical combustion while we are alive in our hosts. (Unless you don't believe in the soul.) I am not saying in any way that you are wrong, it is just I need a more deeper insight that can answer my questions, so that I know to break things off with the being.

The only offering I can provide to you, in hopes that you will continue down the road you initialized, comes in the form of enticement. If I may a provide an example to you, if someone comes across this thread to better themselves looking for guidance and your insight doesn't answer their questions, do you believe that they will have the absolutely firm belief to end their relationship, whether or not it needs to be cut off entirely, do you believe that they will have the will-power/dedication to go through with the feat that is in essence extremely difficult? Is it possible for someone who suffers from obesity to truly lose a lot of weight if they do not dedicate themselves and give in completely to the belief of - eating is bad and I need to stop or my life is in peril?

When it comes to me however, the problem is the help that I need comes in the form of moral and philosophical advise. It is hard for me to break off a relationship unless I know the reason. I hate saying this, and it is not directed at you, but I am skeptical at any human who provides wisdom dealing with spiritual affairs, meaning to me higher level insight, unless their reasoning and justification is completely sound and I cannot find a flaw in their reasoning. I stand to lose a lot by breaking apart of my spiritual coven, because it is not based around the known, and I take that extremely seriously, equivalent to breaking up with a wife/husband. I want to, if I am suppose to, but I want to know why and it needs to be completely sound to me. I hope that this doesn't offend you, but it means a lot to me. Knowledge is power. What you are doing is going to determine one of my paths for my future. I ask that as a bearer of knowledge, that you thread carefully, your stepping on a possibility, but if that possibility leads to a bleak outcome, then you are a savior, and deserve my utmost respect. I don't know what is the case, but I want to find out, because of my current situation. [happy]

Does energy to you mean soul? What is spirtual energy? When I think of energy, I am reminiscent of a video game/board game/role playing game and the concept of a object, being the player, and mp, being their natural energy that they possess. Is this incorrect? Can you break down some of your keywords in your post. Also, I am not being visited by spirits, I am embedded with one according to a spiritual website that I came across, does your advise change under this scenario? Thank you for the time.

(I edited out my longer response. If anyone needs explanation I'm happy to share over PM).

johnathanrs wrote: When it comes to me however, the problem is the help that I need comes in the form of moral and philosophical advise. It is hard for me to break off a relationship unless I know the reason. I hate saying this, and it is not directed at you, but I am skeptical at any human who provides wisdom dealing with spiritual affairs, meaning to me higher level insight, unless their reasoning and justification is completely sound and I cannot find a flaw in their reasoning. I stand to lose a lot by breaking apart of my spiritual coven, because it is not based around the known, and I take that extremely seriously, equivalent to breaking up with a wife/husband. I want to, if I am suppose to, but I want to know why and it needs to be completely sound to me. I hope that this doesn't offend you, but it means a lot to me. Knowledge is power. What you are doing is going to determine one of my paths for my future. I ask that as a bearer of knowledge, that you thread carefully, your stepping on a possibility, but if that possibility leads to a bleak outcome, then you are a savior, and deserve my utmost respect. I don't know what is the case, but I want to find out, because of my current situation. [happy]

Stick with your gut. On the thread that Will-O-Wisp started that's a large part of what I was saying. Collect your own data-points. Watch it's behavior over time and draw your own conclusions. If it's constantly waking you up, won't let you get more than five hours of sleep at night, and is trying to steer you toward hypersexuality then you instantly know the tree by its fruit. Similarly I'd also recommend that you watch the synchronicities that surround this phenomena - ie. in my own experience in dealing with entities like this, what little I have, is that synchronistic events can be created by them; that is, it's not always your higher self, God, etc. setting up meaningful coincidences in your life but rather many of these entities know how to do the same thing to coax people along a certain path. The later of course is good or bad based on whether it's helping or hurting you, I just bring it up because you'll want to consider the behaviors and synchronicities as part-in-parcel.

johnathanrs wrote:Did someone teach you this or did you arrive to this belief yourself? Are you sound in believing this or open-minded to a different philosophy? Before I say anything, let me warn you that I believe in what I am about to tell you. I realize that I am about to try to convert you from your path of ideology - you have been forewarned - which is something that I try not to do because I don't want to spread propaganda and falsely lead others when I am not at a level to be a leader, but perhaps I am the one who needs to converted and recognize my limitations in this. If you so choose to do dance here with me, I will need more guidance from you for me to become a believer in your philosophy and ways.

Nobody's ever taught me, I've come to my own conclusions from my own research. That's not to say nobody has influenced my way of thinking, obviously. Again, my train of logic is based on balance. Let's assume that we have a statement, A. Let's assume that statement B is challenging it.

Is B more logical / makes more sense / is more probable to happen than A?
Is either A or B exhibited or not in real life?
Is B compatible with the foundations of any amount of previous learning?

johnathanrs wrote:If you don't mind, a bit of context here. I have dived into the free will world and went down into the rabbit hole and came up empty handed. Perhaps you can provide a map for me. You see, I became lost because logic itself breaks apart at a certain point. After contemplating a few things - I came to the conclusion that everything is zero sum only to the level of consciousness. Consciousness representing beings that have passed the threshold of free will. I, also, recognize the fact that this previous comment is arrogant as well because it may be that all beings, even ones that we don't believe to possess free will, in fact do and we, the human species, possess simply a greater free will than others on our planet, where beings greater than us possess even greater features of free will. Free will may in fact be a mechanism of choose , and the greater your level within the system/aka universe, the more unlocking of abilities of choice is allowed. All possibilities essentially exist. As a spirit living as a human, you are bounded by certain limitations of free will that have been placed within the environment of the universe or what we call life. A alien species living in the universe may in fact possess a greater form of free will, where more choice is available, such as abilities like telepathy.

Simple here, actually. Free Will isn't Intelligence. Let me put it like this.. Intelligence is a measure of capability of using Consciousness, and this capability comes from the biological hardware the being is equipping. Think like this.. can the ancient Commodore 64 run Windows 10? No, because it's body is simply unable to. What's Windows 10 then our metaphor for? Intelligence. Then what's Free Will? It is the user sitting at the computer, using an old Commodore to do his best, not even knowing that there can exist higher tasks that Windows 10 can perform, etc.

johnathanrs wrote:Under the scenario of me being able to hypothetically being able to talk to what we would call a lower life form on our planet such as a reasoning bee/ant/lion/horse; I would expect for them to honestly provide a philosophy similar to yours.

The next most Intelligent animals on the plane are dolphins, cats, dogs, and elephants. Each is restricted by their biological body's capabilities, just as we are.

johnathanrs wrote:In truth, your philosophy is frightening to me because it means that evil itself equate to goodness - which means if your logic is correct then serial killers like Ted Bundy are justified in their actions... because if Ted Bundy simply construes his actions as a protector of the planet then the act of killing any parasite of humans is justified because they all contribute to the planets demise, no different than any human who desires to kill a flee infestation even if some of those flees may be noble good flees that hypothetically may have there best interest in mind.

Exactly. You won't ever find anyone who's done something they haven't justified from their perspective of things, somehow or the other.

johnathanrs wrote:If one no longer cares about the principles of morals, eliminating from their consciousness the belief of right and wrong, then naturally one can only gravitate towards whatever senses they are feeling at the time such as impulses like mating, eating, exc. Like a lion who is hungry who doesn't base their actions on killing, but on a impulse that they must feed, and whatever creature should happen to present itself to it at the time, that it doesn't hold a relationship with, is to be feed upon. If this is the true model that represents life itself, then if anything, it means that free will, having a choice between choosing what side you are apart of either A) A being of good or B) a being of evil put into context of whatever level of environment you happen to be apart of at the time, is a step below primates who do not possess free will but are environmental automation that are impulse driven. A bee that doesn't question why it's job is to pollinate a flower, it only knows that it should, and lacks the abilities to even contemplate why it fulfills this function within the cycle of life. Free will to me is having a choose to pick your role and pick your side, which to me is a greater ability and a more evolved ability, because it represents endless possibility and the gift of responsibility.

That's exactly how it works. Since you already understand this, I'm just going to address what you're maybe hinting at...
Yeah. They do have a "soul". The one "living thing" I personally doubt whether they have souls or not are plants. Plants have no real cognitive capability apart from a few specialized sensors (eg. phototropism). They're not making conscious decisions (they have no choice either because their bodies are incapable of doing anything else, never mind host a soul), as opposed to animals who can at the very least exhibit fight-or-flight decision making.

johnathanrs wrote:Now, this isn't to say that for beings who do possess our level of free-will that we cannot choose to become apart of negativity or positive, what one would call goodness and evilness, and that is where I am lost. Negative = Positive? I turn to science here, like newton, and follow what god shows us. According to chemistry laws, a neutral atom, what I metaphorically represent all life as, can become a ion by taking on a negative or positive charge, or what we would call evil and good. Just as a atom can become anything, its path is dictated by what type of atoms makeup represents its current shifting phase. I could go on here much more deeply, but you get the basic principle.

Where am I going wrong with my current understanding?

You're asking why good & evil exist in the first place. Again, matter of perspective. Given situation, anything can be considered good or evil. The earth is so big and full of so many circumstantial instances that honestly there is no such thing as good or evil - but there is a faux concept of "greater good" in the sense that the result of an action should benefit an existing collective (society) rather than to cause it damage in any shape or form, in case that hinders it in its current path of progress. Now what's to say that the current path is the right one? Not much. Like you've pointed out before, humans are damaging their location on the way. That's not to say that they haven't progressed. Is the progress ideal? No. Is the current path benefiting some more than others? Yes. Is that fair? No. Is it too late to go back to fix things? Yes. But is it possible to go back? Yes. Will going back reduce the human race's current maximum capability? Yes. Can we fix things down the line? Yes. But are we going in the path where fixing things happens soon? No.

Knowledge is ultimate power. That's the only way you know whether the result of a decision will bring more benefits than damages; if the immediate damages are greater in amount than the benefit, if the long term benefit is crucial and worth every ounce of the damage caused. You must seek to balance your justification by yourself and hope that others understand/see/agree with your reasoning.

johnathanrs wrote:Also, I am not being visited by spirits, I am embedded with one according to a spiritual website that I came across, does your advise change under this scenario? Thank you for the time.

Unless it is talking about your "soul" as the spirit that is embedded in the body, the entire website's philosophy is flawed versus current observations and understandings and you'll have to share it so we can have a look for ourselves to see what they're implying.

Does energy to you mean soul? What is spirtual energy? When I think of energy, I am reminiscent of a video game/board game/role playing game and the concept of a object, being the player, and mp, being their natural energy that they possess. Is this incorrect?

They just passed on the answer to feeling and what science calls energy. Energy, however, scientifically is based around physical chemical combustion or forces. It doesn't have anything to do with a soul. I want to know what you consider it from your experiences.

the_spiral wrote: It seems you have hope for the former, but the fact that you're responding so intently in this thread makes me think you also fear the latter. But if you're not experiencing significant energy drainage or mental imbalance from the entities you're working with, I don't see a pressing reason to get rid of them right away. Try speaking more with them to understand why they approached you and what their purpose is for being there, and above all trust your intuition. You have agency in this situation just like they do. You have a right to set boundaries in your spiritual relationships just as you as your physical ones. That's my over-arching point, I guess.

The problem however is this. How does one know when validation or pleasure is bad? Validation is, "You can do it if you put your mind to it." Exc... At what point does this become detrimental?

the_spiral wrote: "especially earlier on in the attachment when the entity is still feeding them pleasure and validation (two of our biggest human weaknesses)"

Mine is doing this. How does one know up from down when they are nothing but positive?

the_spiral wrote: But beyond that, it seems like you're looking for someone to construct an airtight moral argument that will convince you of exactly where to go from here. And I'm afraid I can't offer that, especially since I don't know your situation. But I'm happy to discuss more in PM if you feel it will help.

Correct. Thanks, i'll take you up on that offer later when I have a concrete theory to provide to you so that I don't waste your time.

Hey guys, sorry I edited my longer response. I was enjoying the conversation but...yeah. And as for the "everything feeds on everything" argument, yeah. But another aspect of that dynamic is that everything also evolves natural defenses to protect itself from being fed on. And I'm just opening a discussion on how to develop these defenses in our spiritual practices, not taking a moral stance on whether it's objectively good or evil to eat other things. I don't see it as a matter of debate, just a basic condition of existence.

As for people dealing with specific circumstances, I think Cybernetic_Jazz offered excellent advice to use your intuition and observe the practical effects of the relationship (not just your feelings about it) to determine whether you have cause for concern or not. The symptoms of energy leeching are very noticeable over time if you pay attention. Validation and pleasure are great gifts when offered by a friend or mentor to uplift you. They're not so great when used as distractions in a con game. It's on us as practitioners to use our instincts, intuition, allies and powers of observation to 'size up' unknown spirits just as we would human strangers. Beyond that I'm not able to give specific recommendations about people's situations here (not because I don't care, just that it elicits personal info and this is a public forum). I just wanted to draw attention to a potential issue both dabblers and experienced occultists should be aware of. And I'm happy to share my own experiences if people want more concrete examples.

And just to clarify the 'energy' question, I'm trying to keep my language broad but I was referring to chi/prana/vital force: https://www.eclecticenergies.com/energy/whatis.php