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Ok so my path dictates I must have two patrons: an angelical and an infernal deity... It was revealed to me like this, unfortunately.

Can you tell me:

A) What kind of magickian can I aspire to be? A gray one? Is there a formal name for this?

B) How do you light your offerings: with a gas lighter or with sulphur matches?

C) I've given the celestial one a consort... now, do I need to give the infernal one a consort also?

D) I know from the Iliad that both Greeks and Trojans tried to find out each other's patrons to screw the enemy, but nowadays many occult writers don't care about mentioning their patrons... How careful ARE YOU when mentioning who your patrons are?

Thanks for your answers. Blessed be.

nessuno wrote:Ok so my path dictates I must have two patrons: an angelical and an infernal deity... It was revealed to me like this, unfortunately.

Can you tell me:

A) What kind of magickian can I aspire to be? A gray one? Is there a formal name for this?

B) How do you light your offerings: with a gas lighter or with sulphur matches?

Thanks for your answers. Blessed be.

I can answer only two of your questions to the best of my abilities.

A) That depends on you. It depends on whether you will follow a particular tradition or be eclectic, follow the spiritual Right Hand Path, the Left Hand Path or the middle way. It is not that easy to label a magical work as black, white or grey. Even practitioners of the White paths practise baneful magic. If I use dark energy to benefit myself or someone else will it be grey or white magic? Generally, magic that benefits others for example healing is considered white magic. Magic used to attain both positive and negative goals is grey magic. Black magic I believe is a very powerful form of baneful grey magic, although I could be wrong. Suppose you do something to avenge someone who has harmed you in some way. Now whether that 'something' is good/evil or grey/black will vary from person to person. People have varied standards of morals. In addition, there are cases when you cast a spell for your benefit and it ends up hurting someone without your knowledge. Personally, I refrain from labelling any magic with colour. It all depends on the intention and how it manifested. Nonetheless, I prefer to keep all my options open and intend to avoid harming others as much as I can. I don't think there are any formal titles for practitioners of any specific 'colour form of magic'.

B) I believe you can use both.

Here is a thread that may help you-

http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... 27#p504727

PS: I don't believe in karma. I believe the that the universe is indifferent.

A) Wrong question. This can be answered be asking, what do I hope to achieve? There is no limit simply because you have to operate differently. Different people have different callings and talents. Forget white, black and gray - they are for the most part limiting, pointless delimiters. Not that im aware of. There are conceptions of following a middle path (for example, balancing the sides of the trees in hermetic qabalah)

B) Depends on working environment. Outside, matches. Inside, lighter. All fire I regard as sacred. This is purely about practicality to your ritual environment.

C) In Hermetic Qabalah and some forms of Jewish Kabbalah, the 'infernal' and 'celestial' side each have a pairing. The infernal side, or Sitra Ahra, are paired as Samael/Lilith. If you have as directed by whatever you are working with to create one pair for one side, law of opposites says balance must be struck. So id say yes. Be careful of false syncreticism as mixed up symbolism will do you long term harm.

D) My patrons can more than protect themselves.. most modern occult writers appeal far too much to psychology with too little to show for it. This pleases people who like a light read that has little solid content. I wouldnt worry about your patrons, they should be able to handle themselves. The only patrons i dont mention by name are the ones that dont for whatever reason, want bothered by others at this time. I abide by that as an act of respect and to keep taboo.

Thanks Napoli. I believe in Karma: I met HIM and he's a dangerous ehem 'individual'. He refuses to tell me if he's from RHP or LHP though.

Thanks Sypheara: you got me closer to the answer I'm seeking.

Np, glad to have helped a bit! [happyface]

Hi Spida broda,

I have one of those: they're cool! I light it with my left hand open for THE Goddess to take away want I don't need or to give me what I need. Underneath I keep a light holder to light up a candle to the infernal deities when the incense is nearly extinguished. The infernal deity seems to require less worship but for longer time.

Hope I'm doing well. Hope you are well as well. Blessings.