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Hello all--

I'm just curious to see if anyone out there has had any experience dealing with the IOT North America. I started the Liber MMM training on my own, but with things like that I always feel like I could use some sort of support, i.e., an ear to bend that has gone through it and knows the traps and pitfalls one can fall into. I reached out to the IOT and was treated somewhat poorly by Frater so and so who answered the email. All he could tell me was to join some groups on Facebook (which I don't do as I don't engage in any sort of social media anymore) or submit an application and hope that I get accepted, which he hinted was an impossibility for me as they only accept "the best." I ended up submitting an application... and guess what? No response. Has anyone had any dealing with the IOT? What are they looking for? All I want is some support in getting through the Liber MMM training and perhaps a group that could help me grow as continue my search for knowledge. I'm not necessarily set on the fact that I NEED a group to be a part of, but I always seem to do better with support rather than on my own.

Did I just have a bad experience with one member? Did that experience destroy my chances of being accepted? Are they that elitist?

Any help is appreciated!

Thanks!

I have no personal experience with them, but I used to correspond with some people who did, and the impression I got is that they went downhill a fair bit 5 or 6 years back.

I could be wrong though, but I certainly wouldn't take it personally if you don't get a reply to your emails. There are a disproportionate number of egotistical jerks in the Western Magic scene, sadly. Just shrug it off and keep going.

Reading Ray Sherwin's latest book, Vitriol, he says the UK IOT is effectively finished. He quotes Peter J. Carroll as saying it's run by third rate people he doesn't really want anything to do with. There's someone else on the Internet, can't remember where, who runs a site saying terrible things about them which I can't repeat, though it's easy enough to find. If the UK branch really is finished then I wouldn't be too surprised if the same thing hasn't happened in America. It (chaos magick and the IOT) was something new a long time ago. It's a spent force now. Perhaps your better off not joining them.

I don't know anything about these people specifically, but let's look at why you're not "the best:"

1. You need support
2. You are scared

Did I just have a bad experience with one member? Did that experience destroy my chances of being accepted? Are they that elitist?

If you joined you'd probably be the only member. It's dead. They just don't want to admit it. You're doing good alone. Keep at it.

Next wrote:I don't know anything about these people specifically, but let's look at why you're not "the best:"

1. You need support
2. You are scared

First, while I do think it would be nice to have an ear to bend... I wouldn't say it is something that I necessarily NEED. Second, I am not scared. Third, very few, if any, people become the "best" on their own without support. So, there's that. Not to be completely contrary, but I feel like your comment was completely unnecessary.

Thankfully Nexts' post is not typical of forum members here.

Feel free to ignore it.

Nahemah wrote:Thankfully Nexts' post is not typical of forum members here.

Feel free to ignore it.

Posts like that are precisely why I've never really gotten into forums very much. I just don't have time for it and I think it's childish, contrary, and usually completely besides the point.

At least there are respectable people who will either answer genuinely... or just not say anything at all. So... thanks for that!

see you havent joined for long though you sure have good rythem

cactusjack543 wrote:see you havent joined for long though you sure have good rythem

Forgive me, but, I'm not sure what that means.

i suppose like slim shady the song sure lots of post hope you stay long....

AbraxianChaos wrote:I ended up submitting an application... and guess what? No response.

Still no response? I can only tell you they are alive and you should have at least received an automated acknowledgement. A response could take weeks because they'll have a close look at your application during their meetings which do not occur every day.

I guess IOT is chaos oriented, based on the comments here. It's not chaos by name and more aligned with western esotericism but if you're interested in a system of initiation, this website provides a free system which is pretty cool: https://www.quareia.com/

Urscumug wrote:

AbraxianChaos wrote:I ended up submitting an application... and guess what? No response.

Still no response? I can only tell you they are alive and you should have at least received an automated acknowledgement. A response could take weeks because they'll have a close look at your application during their meetings which do not occur every day.

I received the auto-response immediately after submitting. If I am remembering correctly it has been about 3 months since I submitted the application. The process in which they review/accept was written kind of ambiguously... so I wasn't really aware of how quickly anything might happen.

3 months seems a bit too much! You should contact them and ask about the status of your submission.

Urscumug wrote:3 months seems a bit too much! You should contact them and ask about the status of your submission.

I just did. It does say, somewhere, that if you don't hear anything... you don't hear anything. So... I don't know.

Eh, they sound like a bunch of snobs. I think if you're going to organize, you should have a ground-level entry for newbies and not be so exclusive. I guess that's their right to be elitist, though.

chowderpope wrote:Eh, they sound like a bunch of snobs. I think if you're going to organize, you should have a ground-level entry for newbies and not be so exclusive. I guess that's their right to be elitist, though.

They DO have a ground-level entry for newbies and they are not elitists, you only have to agree that "nothing is true".
Why are you saying they are so exclusive? It is true that the IOT is not actively searching for members but as a real world, face to face organisation, they have the right to decide if they don't want to have a relationship with any individual. I think this is a pretty common procedure.
In the present case AbraxianChaos got no answer at all and this should not happen, this is why I suggest he makes some inquiries.

@Urscumug

I actually got an immediate reply to my inquiry yesterday and was told a decision would be made before the end of the month. Of course I still have to do a phone interview... but... that is good news, at least, that the wheels are turning. IOT is the order I most associate my views and practice with, so it would be great if I were able to expand my knowledge with them.

Still haven't heard anything back from the IOT. I suppose it's a no-go. Or perhaps it's one of those things where you have to show how much you want it by staying on the doorstep. I don't know.

I think the chances that you're just experiencing the flow-on effect of institutional dysfunction are exponentially higher than the chances that you're being intentionally tested by someone with a vested interest in your future.

Find something better.

If they cannot be arsed to even handle an application with decorum and efficiency, how can they be expected to help you grow on a spiritual level?

You would expect an organisation like that would be thrilled to have new neophytes and grow. Especially if they are having issues with active members like alot of magickal organisations are..

But as Rin says you have alot of ego being thrown around these days. I've never got that. I'm pretty opinionated, but i'd never look down on someone for being new or searching for answers? It just escapes me why these people must have such empty lives to be like that.

I actually did finally get a response, and an interview, which I feel went well. After speaking with the gentleman for awhile I sort of got why they do things the way they do. It was a pleasant experience once I had a face to face chat. Communicating through the internet can be so tricky sometimes.

Now... I wait to see if I have been accepted as a Novice. Perhaps I will hear something within the next week or so.

Good luck. It's cool that they call you, very personal.