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Now, I do not adhere to Astrology, but in the vein of Chaos perhaps I might one day. Why would I do that, what benefit would I gain by adhering to a situation that has phases of empowerment and dis-empowerment?

Allegedly it allows you to do things at optimal times. If I'm going to try an evocation of an energy related to Mars, it would be beneficial to do it on the day and hour corresponding with Mars. It's sort of like throwing gas on your fire. Some people go by the Moon as well, whether it's waxing or waning. Those are the very basics and I'm sure you already knew that. If I were preparing a serious evocation, especially dealing with planetary energies, I would consider the time.

"what is the benefit of Astrology"

Knowledge

"Why would I do that, what benefit would I gain by adhering to a situation that has phases of empowerment and dis-empowerment?"

It's a hell of a lot easier to get a tan when the sun is out.

There is however another reason why you should at least study it.
It's a system of symbolic meanings, and almost all western systems are based around it. You can't understand the tarot without astrology, you can't work with goetia without understanding astrology, you can't do sympathetic magic without astrology, the golden dawn, oto and everything else in the 20th century doesn't make sense without astrology.
Alchemy is based on astrology, pharmaceutics are based on astrology, Farming is based on astrology, warfare is based on astrology, politics is based on astrology. Psychology draws heavily upon astrology.

It just really really helps to understand out world if you study astrology.

No problem with the rest of your post , overall , Desecrated , but respectfully ,
this statement is as full of holes as the most holey swiss cheese :

"you can't do sympathetic magic without astrology"

I have to call malarkey... [razz]

Sympathetic magic has been around since the stone age...

Long before any developed "science" of astrology...

I have worked magic , very successfully , both with and without astrological
considerations , from sympathetic magic to tarot readings , and some alchemy
uses astrological considerations , yet not all...

For instance , some Taoist internal alchemy practices , just for a beginning...

Now if you are speaking of planetary correspondences...that may apply , in
certain situations...but that is *not* astrology , as it is considered today...

Perhaps a clarification of your statement might benefit others...

( by the way , good to see you...you disappeared for awhile there )

Shawn Blackwolf wrote:No problem with the rest of your post , overall , Desecrated , but respectfully ,
this statement is as full of holes as the most holey swiss cheese :

"you can't do sympathetic magic without astrology"

I have to call malarkey... [razz]

Sympathetic magic has been around since the stone age...

Göbekli Tepe

This is one of those cases were I'm right and you're right.
According to my definition of astrology and sympathetic magic, there are clear links.
According to your definition of astrology and sympathetic magic, there are no clear links.

Desecrated wrote:

Shawn Blackwolf wrote:No problem with the rest of your post , overall , Desecrated , but respectfully ,
this statement is as full of holes as the most holey swiss cheese :

"you can't do sympathetic magic without astrology"

I have to call malarkey... [razz]

Sympathetic magic has been around since the stone age...

Göbekli Tepe

I love pictures of that place , and I have written formulas regarding the vultures
on the T - stone pillars there...the U.S. , interestingly enough , did some remote
viewing experiments there...

However , I am not familiar of any solid research , regarding sympathetic magic , and
a connection to astrology...do you mean alignments to certain constellations ?

( and your second answer is fair enough , thanks )

But if you have evidence of magical workings and astrology , that far back , I would
like to see it , if you can post it , or links... [thumbup]

We also must take into consideration , however , the likelihood of magical practices
before that , is great , and I have not seen any writing on that...

I may not be big on "established academia" , yet I am always open to information ,
and "possible" explanations , regarding ancient peoples and cultures , when written
in a non - academic fashion I can easily integrate... [wink]

Shawn Blackwolf wrote: I may not be big on "established academia" , yet I am always open to information ,
and "possible" explanations , regarding ancient peoples and cultures , when written
in a non - academic fashion I can easily integrate... [wink]

It's pretty well known in archeology that some/most(all?) of the ancient structures relates to the sun/moon/star. Göbeckli tepe being one of them. Latest research on tepe puts the earliest stages of the temple at about 12000 years ago. So astrology predates written language.

It's also a fairly accepted theory there are signs of sympathetic magic when it comes to cave art. I think it's at Lascaux (if my memory serves me right). Which is somewhere around 17000 years old.

You can also look at the Lion Man of the Hohlenstein Stadel (38,000 BCE), if you want to see an early example of imitative magic.

I think there are some BBC documentaries about both Tepe and Lascaux.
But I highly recommend both Joseph Campbell and Francis Thackeray for a fairly easy to read experience.

Thanks...

I am well aware , and well read on star alignments to ancient temples
and lunar and solar alignments...

And , as you and I are separated by only a few years , I am sure we both
remember Robert Temple , and his work on the Sirius Mystery , which
started a long series of works by such as Graham Hancock , Robert Duvall ,
and a slew of others , from the 1980's forward...

Joseph Campbell I not only read , I saw him speak at a convention...

I have seen countless programs on television , and internet videos on these things...

But thanks for the name Thackeray...I might have seen or read his works , but
I do not remember right off...

The old cave walls , absolutely...my research into all this began in the 1970's...

My specific interest regarding your initial reference was astrology and Göbekli Tepe...

That , I was not familiar with studies of star alignments...

Yet , we are seeing things differently , as far as astrology...

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/astrology

As Merriam Webster states the first use of the name "astrology" was from the 14th
century , and dealt with :

"the divination of the supposed influences of the stars and planets on human affairs and terrestrial events by their positions and aspects"

Now , if we are going back to Chinese , Persian , and Mayan studies of stars , and planets ,
and their correspondences to ritual and magic , that still is not what I would consider "stone age"...

You know , by now , I am open to many things not accepted by modern academia , or scientists ,
especially "historians" , and "etymologists"...yet I do cast a critical eye , at claims by "new age"
or "occult" works , linking these things , as well...

My idea of stone age is perhaps different in this context , as I place my idea of the stone age at
the midpoint between 2.5 million , and 5500 years ago...

http://www.ancient.eu/Stone_Age/

And I would absolutely love to see any and all reference and evidence to astrology , as defined today ,
and ritual and magic from that timeline...anything older than 50,000 years , would delight me !

This is where my interest in old graves , per archeology comes in , and artifacts which could be considered
ritual implements... [wink]

Okay I checked Merriam webster and you are correct, the word "astrology" started being used in the english language in the 14th century.

But the act that the word is describing goes back much further. Even among sholar you see people talking about egyptian astrology, sumerian astrology, hellenistic astrology, horary, chinese and so on.

So I'm going to use oxford dictionary instead.
Astrology : The study of the movements and relative positions of celestial bodies interpreted as having an influence on human affairs and the natural world.

So what I mean when I saw astrology - is any connection with magic and planets, in any cultural context whatsoever.

SO, I'm lazy and I'm just going to copy something out of goole and you have to do your own research to see if it is true:

"Near to the entrance of the Lascaux cave complex is a magnificent painting of a bull. Hanging over its shoulder is what appears (to us) to be a map of the Pleiades, the cluster of stars sometimes called the Seven Sisters. Inside the bull painting, there are also indications of spots that may be a representation of other stars found in that region of sky. Today, this region forms part of the constellation of Taurus the bull.

In recent years, new research has suggested that the Lascaux paintings may incorporate prehistoric star charts. Dr Michael Rappenglueck of the University of Munich argued that some of the non-figurative dot clusters and dots within some of the figurative images correlate with the constellations of Taurus, The Pleiades and the grouping known as the "Summer Triangle". Based on her own study of the astronomical significance of Bronze Age petroglyphs in the Vallée des Merveilles and her extensive survey of other prehistoric cave painting sites in the region — most of which appear to have been specifically selected because the interiors are illuminated by the setting sun on the day of the winter solstice — French researcher Chantal Jègues-Wolkiewiez has further proposed that the gallery of figurative images in the Great Hall represents an extensive star map and that key points on major figures in the group correspond to stars in the main constellations as they appeared in the Palaeolithic leading to the remarkable suggestion of a direct transfer of information for over 17,000 years."

"Hypotheses about prehistoric sympathetic magic
The term is most commonly used in archaeology in relation to Paleolithic cave paintings such as those in North Africa and at Lascaux in France. The theory is one of prehistoric human behavior, and is based on studies of more modern hunter-gatherer societies. The idea is that the paintings were made by Cro-Magnon shamans"

http://www.timothystephany.com/gobekli.html

The Sun and the Moon and the stars are there for all of us, and what they represent vary from person to person, culture to culture.