Original post: Aodh
I've come across this name/word as the 'Great First Word' in a Mandaean/Manichaean prayer and listed as an angel in Mandaean lore. Anyone have any background on the name, etymology, or either of the aformentioned references? I'm a bit interested in it as there's almost no mention of it except as 'The Great First Word' yet no explanation after that.
-Jake
Mahziel
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Mahziel
Original post: pmcv
Hey, Aodh
The word "Mahziel" is from the Mandaean liturature, not Manichaean. They are not the same thing in spite of what the webpages for the "Order of the Nazorean Essenes tells us.
As for etymology, that would be difficult... it is out of my field. The Mandaeans have thier own language, but many of the words of thier mythological personages do have origins in other languages (many are corruption from Hebrew, but there are other languages represented as well). I can't tell you specifically, you may wish to write a specialist or somebody who speaks Mandaic.
Good luck in the search.
PMCV
Hey, Aodh
The word "Mahziel" is from the Mandaean liturature, not Manichaean. They are not the same thing in spite of what the webpages for the "Order of the Nazorean Essenes tells us.
As for etymology, that would be difficult... it is out of my field. The Mandaeans have thier own language, but many of the words of thier mythological personages do have origins in other languages (many are corruption from Hebrew, but there are other languages represented as well). I can't tell you specifically, you may wish to write a specialist or somebody who speaks Mandaic.
Good luck in the search.
PMCV
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Mahziel
Original post: Aodh
I'm aware about the Mandaean and Manichaean differences. I used the / meaning I wasn't sure which at the time. I'll see if I can find a speaker of Mandaic.
I'm aware about the Mandaean and Manichaean differences. I used the / meaning I wasn't sure which at the time. I'll see if I can find a speaker of Mandaic.
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Mahziel
Original post: pmcv
Oh, ok Aodh. Say, I am also curious so let us know if you discover something. To be honest I am afraid you are going to get an answer of something like "we are not sure, but there are a couple of theories that say ....... or ......."
I am willing to bet that one of them includes some kind of Hebrew etymology, but a very uncertain one. As far as I know, the term is only used in one or two Mandaean texts, and this rarity makes it a bit hard to be sure about. Not only that, but I think it is in the prayer book, which if I recall is a later text (don't quote me on this).
In any event, while Mandaeans are not technically "Gnostic" they certainly are cousins... so let us know what you discover.
PMCV
Oh, ok Aodh. Say, I am also curious so let us know if you discover something. To be honest I am afraid you are going to get an answer of something like "we are not sure, but there are a couple of theories that say ....... or ......."
I am willing to bet that one of them includes some kind of Hebrew etymology, but a very uncertain one. As far as I know, the term is only used in one or two Mandaean texts, and this rarity makes it a bit hard to be sure about. Not only that, but I think it is in the prayer book, which if I recall is a later text (don't quote me on this).
In any event, while Mandaeans are not technically "Gnostic" they certainly are cousins... so let us know what you discover.
PMCV
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Mahziel
Original post: inkubus
Hi, I saw your posts and about the ethymology of Mahziel name I have to say is from the aramaic root khaza which means "to see" in its aphel form akhzi "to show, to let someone to see" and the old semitic term el which means "god, godness". So, the litterary translation of the term is "The one who shows the God" or "The God who shows, The God who reveals". The term is aramaic and, yes, can be mandaic, as long as the mandaic language is a babylonian middle aramaic dialect.
Hi, I saw your posts and about the ethymology of Mahziel name I have to say is from the aramaic root khaza which means "to see" in its aphel form akhzi "to show, to let someone to see" and the old semitic term el which means "god, godness". So, the litterary translation of the term is "The one who shows the God" or "The God who shows, The God who reveals". The term is aramaic and, yes, can be mandaic, as long as the mandaic language is a babylonian middle aramaic dialect.
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Mahziel
Original post: Aodh
Quite nifty stuff you put down there. Thank you
Quite nifty stuff you put down there. Thank you
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Mahziel
Original post: pmcv
Hey Inkubus, you state....
While Mandaean is not a dialect of Aramaic, it is certainly a related language that borrows much from Hebrew, Aramaic, and Persian sources, as well as later Arabic, though it is technically it's own language.
While I have to shrink from giving some kind of official backing here, I can see some similarities to the Hebrew Mksh. However, you leave a hole, etymologically speaking. No matter how you see the term in Aramaic, you have to establish that it is the origin of the Mandaic term. Now, if we consider the context of the Mandaic term, your model really has meaning.... BUT.... you seem very sure that it is from the Aramaic term, and the fact is we should all be aware that the exact same spellings can means something different in different languages.
My only question then is.... why do you give the qualification "The term is aramaic and, yes, can be mandaic, as long as the mandaic language is a babylonian middle aramaic dialect."
One would have to know the language class of Mandaic to make the connection at all. Do you see my point here? This is why there is debate about etymologies. I simply would like to be sure whether your last second retraction is pedantic fun or unsureness of a webpage or book I have not had the chance to look through myself.
PMCV
Hey Inkubus, you state....
Hi, I saw your posts and about the ethymology of Mahziel name I have to say is from the aramaic root khaza which means "to see" in its aphel form akhzi "to show, to let someone to see" and the old semitic term el which means "god, godness". So, the litterary translation of the term is "The one who shows the God" or "The God who shows, The God who reveals". The term is aramaic and, yes, can be mandaic, as long as the mandaic language is a babylonian middle aramaic dialect.
While Mandaean is not a dialect of Aramaic, it is certainly a related language that borrows much from Hebrew, Aramaic, and Persian sources, as well as later Arabic, though it is technically it's own language.
While I have to shrink from giving some kind of official backing here, I can see some similarities to the Hebrew Mksh. However, you leave a hole, etymologically speaking. No matter how you see the term in Aramaic, you have to establish that it is the origin of the Mandaic term. Now, if we consider the context of the Mandaic term, your model really has meaning.... BUT.... you seem very sure that it is from the Aramaic term, and the fact is we should all be aware that the exact same spellings can means something different in different languages.
My only question then is.... why do you give the qualification "The term is aramaic and, yes, can be mandaic, as long as the mandaic language is a babylonian middle aramaic dialect."
One would have to know the language class of Mandaic to make the connection at all. Do you see my point here? This is why there is debate about etymologies. I simply would like to be sure whether your last second retraction is pedantic fun or unsureness of a webpage or book I have not had the chance to look through myself.
PMCV