Original post: Noxlux
Say, who here has any experience of the more magickal sides of nlp, dhe or nhr?
I mean, since amongst others bellini (http://www.hawkridgeproductions.com/products/shamanixvid.htm) and bandler give courses regarding this?
feel free to pm me just to get in touch if you have some such experience.
Nox
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Original post: cpmg_101
NLP is not magick, although it can be used for magickal applications. However, strictly speaking, everything is magick.
cpmg_101
NLP is not magick, although it can be used for magickal applications. However, strictly speaking, everything is magick.
cpmg_101
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Original post: Grab
cpmg, I don't understand your point, but never mind now.
noxlux, I have done some NLP and DHE which have given results on the borderline to Magick. For instance, finding information that I didn't know I had by deep trance identification with a person (who might be fictional). It corresponds well to invokation of Gods, IMHO.
cpmg, I don't understand your point, but never mind now.
noxlux, I have done some NLP and DHE which have given results on the borderline to Magick. For instance, finding information that I didn't know I had by deep trance identification with a person (who might be fictional). It corresponds well to invokation of Gods, IMHO.
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Original post: Nalyd23
I disagree with cpmg 101, NLP is a huge part of what makes Magickal suggestion (hypnosis) work, contrary to what some might think. I have used NLP techniques to help communicate with others more than anything else, and it indeed works "magic". My favorite sources for info are Steven Heller's Monsters and Magical Sticks and Bandler and Grinder's The Structure of Magic Vol. 1 and 2.
I disagree with cpmg 101, NLP is a huge part of what makes Magickal suggestion (hypnosis) work, contrary to what some might think. I have used NLP techniques to help communicate with others more than anything else, and it indeed works "magic". My favorite sources for info are Steven Heller's Monsters and Magical Sticks and Bandler and Grinder's The Structure of Magic Vol. 1 and 2.
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Original post: glyph
when I first read NLP books (Frogs into Princes) I couldnt believe how close it seemed to making magic work - I've done a couple of weekend nlp courses but I think it takes application and practice to get good at (like that other subject) - I'll look out for that Heller book - [they also seem to have gone through schisms much like the various OTOs ..]
when I first read NLP books (Frogs into Princes) I couldnt believe how close it seemed to making magic work - I've done a couple of weekend nlp courses but I think it takes application and practice to get good at (like that other subject) - I'll look out for that Heller book - [they also seem to have gone through schisms much like the various OTOs ..]
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Original post: Noxlux
to me the occult and magick in some ways are artforms which slowwly suffer the same fate as philosophy. what I mean is that philosophy in the beginning included loads and loads of stuff which has later on become parts of the fields of physics and psychology, leaving philosophy to occupy itself with other stuff.
same with occult and magick - much that previously required magick to work can nowadays be accomplished with and understood in the terms of hypnosis, nlp, dhe and so forth.
to me the occult and magick in some ways are artforms which slowwly suffer the same fate as philosophy. what I mean is that philosophy in the beginning included loads and loads of stuff which has later on become parts of the fields of physics and psychology, leaving philosophy to occupy itself with other stuff.
same with occult and magick - much that previously required magick to work can nowadays be accomplished with and understood in the terms of hypnosis, nlp, dhe and so forth.
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Original post: Nalyd23
[QUOTE=Noxlux]to me the occult and magick in some ways are artforms which slowwly suffer the same fate as philosophy. what I mean is that philosophy in the beginning included loads and loads of stuff which has later on become parts of the fields of physics and psychology, leaving philosophy to occupy itself with other stuff.
same with occult and magick - much that previously required magick to work can nowadays be accomplished with and understood in the terms of hypnosis, nlp, dhe and so forth.[/QUOTE]I think what bothers some magickians/occultists about this is that you may lose your monopoly stronghold on Magick/Occult practices. I view Magick as a misunderstood psycho-sexual-spiritual synthesis of all these working components. The biggest mistake that the scientific community makes, in my opinion, is that it only embraces certain components of Magick/Occult practices and ignores a lot of other aspects of it. Though NLP and hypnosis seem to work, they are not the only working components in Magickal practices. This is where the occult community and the scientific community part ways. Science tries to rip apart something to understand it and Magick tends towards a holistic unity. But the fusion of the two has been happening in the last hundred years or so with quantum physics and chaos theory and other related branches of science. You can thank people like Robert Anton Wilson, Peter Carroll, Christopher S. Hyatt, Nick Herbert, etc., for pushing Magick towards a more scientific paradigm and pushing science towards a more Magickal paradigm. Actually Aleister Crowley was one of the first to put the two together effectively.
[QUOTE=Noxlux]to me the occult and magick in some ways are artforms which slowwly suffer the same fate as philosophy. what I mean is that philosophy in the beginning included loads and loads of stuff which has later on become parts of the fields of physics and psychology, leaving philosophy to occupy itself with other stuff.
same with occult and magick - much that previously required magick to work can nowadays be accomplished with and understood in the terms of hypnosis, nlp, dhe and so forth.[/QUOTE]I think what bothers some magickians/occultists about this is that you may lose your monopoly stronghold on Magick/Occult practices. I view Magick as a misunderstood psycho-sexual-spiritual synthesis of all these working components. The biggest mistake that the scientific community makes, in my opinion, is that it only embraces certain components of Magick/Occult practices and ignores a lot of other aspects of it. Though NLP and hypnosis seem to work, they are not the only working components in Magickal practices. This is where the occult community and the scientific community part ways. Science tries to rip apart something to understand it and Magick tends towards a holistic unity. But the fusion of the two has been happening in the last hundred years or so with quantum physics and chaos theory and other related branches of science. You can thank people like Robert Anton Wilson, Peter Carroll, Christopher S. Hyatt, Nick Herbert, etc., for pushing Magick towards a more scientific paradigm and pushing science towards a more Magickal paradigm. Actually Aleister Crowley was one of the first to put the two together effectively.
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Original post: Horus
[QUOTE=Noxlux]
same with occult and magick - much that previously required magick to work can nowadays be accomplished with and understood in the terms of hypnosis, nlp, dhe and so forth.[/QUOTE]
Well I wouldn't say Magick has been or even can be understood in terms of NLP and the like, I think that is seriously dumbing down Magick to a mere psychological trick... but having said that I agree that NLP, Hypnosis, etc. are very Magickal.
[QUOTE=Noxlux]
same with occult and magick - much that previously required magick to work can nowadays be accomplished with and understood in the terms of hypnosis, nlp, dhe and so forth.[/QUOTE]
Well I wouldn't say Magick has been or even can be understood in terms of NLP and the like, I think that is seriously dumbing down Magick to a mere psychological trick... but having said that I agree that NLP, Hypnosis, etc. are very Magickal.
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Original post: Jenfucius
Could someone explain what DHE and NHR stands for. I'm not familar with them????
Could someone explain what DHE and NHR stands for. I'm not familar with them????
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Original post: Grab
Does the word Google mean anything to you? :lol:
Does the word Google mean anything to you? :lol:
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Original post: Nalyd23
Design Human Engineering and Neuro-Hypnotic Repatterning.
Design Human Engineering and Neuro-Hypnotic Repatterning.
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Original post: Jenfucius
[QUOTE=Grab]Does the word Google mean anything to you? :lol:[/QUOTE]I used Yahoo search engine and got tons of information about other unrelated stuff which didnt help much.
It was the acronyms that was the main problem.
[QUOTE=Grab]Does the word Google mean anything to you? :lol:[/QUOTE]I used Yahoo search engine and got tons of information about other unrelated stuff which didnt help much.
It was the acronyms that was the main problem.
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Original post: Panu Nahka
[QUOTE=Nalyd23]I think what bothers some magickians/occultists about this is that you may lose your monopoly stronghold on Magick/Occult practices. I view Magick as a misunderstood psycho-sexual-spiritual synthesis of all these working components. The biggest mistake that the scientific community makes, in my opinion, is that it only embraces certain components of Magick/Occult practices and ignores a lot of other aspects of it. Though NLP and hypnosis seem to work, they are not the only working components in Magickal practices. This is where the occult community and the scientific community part ways. Science tries to rip apart something to understand it and Magick tends towards a holistic unity. But the fusion of the two has been happening in the last hundred years or so with quantum physics and chaos theory and other related branches of science. You can thank people like Robert Anton Wilson, Peter Carroll, Christopher S. Hyatt, Nick Herbert, etc., for pushing Magick towards a more scientific paradigm and pushing science towards a more Magickal paradigm. Actually Aleister Crowley was one of the first to put the two together effectively.[/QUOTE]
In essence, I would categorize world to mundane and magickal. Mundane is all that is normal and common-day: Cars, Laws of Physics, toaster-ovens, lightbulbs, medical care and so forth. They are applications of our current scientific paradigm that have surfaced to consensual reality.
Magick gains it's definition because it bends, breaks or uses revolutionary the "known" laws of reality. Everything from magickal circles, telepathy and spirits to levitation platforms and human-cloning is magickal. They are magickal because majority of humanity do not accept such things to be possible.
So, it's useless to speak of science or magick as separate entities. Both bend the fabric of reality to the will of magician/scientist, only the means and goals differ. Science bends towards reason, magick towards creativity. Overtly scientific world where everything would be explained would stop, because the flow of creativity would cease. Overtly magickal world would be impossible to inhabit, because there would be no reason nor reality.
Currently, our world is heading towards ever more rational world, where scientists are priests and highest peaks of science are totally incomprehensible to masses. For every new scientific explanation, a little more magick dies. And because of that, I don't see, that science is becoming more magickal. I see it accepting some of magickal theorems and applications, but only on it's terms and after heavy rationalization. To put it bluntly, wonder and magick are dying, and we are cheering as we watch the slaughter.
[QUOTE=Nalyd23]I think what bothers some magickians/occultists about this is that you may lose your monopoly stronghold on Magick/Occult practices. I view Magick as a misunderstood psycho-sexual-spiritual synthesis of all these working components. The biggest mistake that the scientific community makes, in my opinion, is that it only embraces certain components of Magick/Occult practices and ignores a lot of other aspects of it. Though NLP and hypnosis seem to work, they are not the only working components in Magickal practices. This is where the occult community and the scientific community part ways. Science tries to rip apart something to understand it and Magick tends towards a holistic unity. But the fusion of the two has been happening in the last hundred years or so with quantum physics and chaos theory and other related branches of science. You can thank people like Robert Anton Wilson, Peter Carroll, Christopher S. Hyatt, Nick Herbert, etc., for pushing Magick towards a more scientific paradigm and pushing science towards a more Magickal paradigm. Actually Aleister Crowley was one of the first to put the two together effectively.[/QUOTE]
In essence, I would categorize world to mundane and magickal. Mundane is all that is normal and common-day: Cars, Laws of Physics, toaster-ovens, lightbulbs, medical care and so forth. They are applications of our current scientific paradigm that have surfaced to consensual reality.
Magick gains it's definition because it bends, breaks or uses revolutionary the "known" laws of reality. Everything from magickal circles, telepathy and spirits to levitation platforms and human-cloning is magickal. They are magickal because majority of humanity do not accept such things to be possible.
So, it's useless to speak of science or magick as separate entities. Both bend the fabric of reality to the will of magician/scientist, only the means and goals differ. Science bends towards reason, magick towards creativity. Overtly scientific world where everything would be explained would stop, because the flow of creativity would cease. Overtly magickal world would be impossible to inhabit, because there would be no reason nor reality.
Currently, our world is heading towards ever more rational world, where scientists are priests and highest peaks of science are totally incomprehensible to masses. For every new scientific explanation, a little more magick dies. And because of that, I don't see, that science is becoming more magickal. I see it accepting some of magickal theorems and applications, but only on it's terms and after heavy rationalization. To put it bluntly, wonder and magick are dying, and we are cheering as we watch the slaughter.
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Original post: cpmg_101
Nalyd23
There is one simple reason why NLP is not magick. Normally magick application works on individuals regardless of their beliefs, language, or origin. In other words, even if someone doesn't understand a word of english will experience the state you want them to experience. But try to use your embeded commands on someone who do not understand English.
cpmg_101
Nalyd23
There is one simple reason why NLP is not magick. Normally magick application works on individuals regardless of their beliefs, language, or origin. In other words, even if someone doesn't understand a word of english will experience the state you want them to experience. But try to use your embeded commands on someone who do not understand English.
cpmg_101