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Post by Occult Forum Archive »

Original post: Samuelofillumination

[QUOTE=IAO131;357390]It matters who you construe 'Thou' to be in that line - most consider it to be personally directed to the Beast. Otherwise Id say that line of the book is an exercise in wasting time.

IAO131[/QUOTE]

It's a start but I still think I'm well off, first off the line has to mean something far more important then that.

I believe the time will come when the true meaning is defined.

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Post by Occult Forum Archive »

Original post: RifRaf

*delete*

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Post by Occult Forum Archive »

Original post: RifRaf

[QUOTE=Samuelofillumination;357039]

hmmm...[/QUOTE]

Wait, didn't you edit what you had originally said? Which I explicitly remember you saying, in one way or another, that you found little use, if any, of deciphering the "codes" as you called it.

One more thing....

[QUOTE=Samuelofillumination;357391]It's a start but I still think I'm well off, first off the line has to mean something far more important then that.

I believe the time will come when the true meaning is defined.[/QUOTE]

What do you mean you are "well off"? The information you had posted, and blatantly taking credit for, was copied from another website. You spinelessly posted the entire artical without putting the original authors name. You may have had a chance to get away with it, but it is apparent that you intended to copy it, and write it off as your own. You took his name off of two seperate spots, once in the middle of the essay, and again at the end, then pasted it all here without saying one thing about it.

Any person who wants to read the real work can find that link at the bottom of my post. It was originaly typed up by G.M.Kelly, a.k.a. Frater Keallach 93/676.

http://www.geocities.com/athens/parthen ... iddle.html

http://www.geocities.com/athens/parthen ... iddle.html


What the fuck is with all these people trying to pretend they know stuff? Stealing shit, lying about what they do, acting like they have practiced stuff which they have not, etc? It is stupid, and really pisses me off, especially when you steal someone elses real work.

"..may your pyramid be profaned, and the Eye be closed upon you!" Even though, I am sure it was never even looking towards you.

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Post by Occult Forum Archive »

Original post: Samuelofillumination

[QUOTE=RifRaf;357435]Wait, didn't you edit what you had originally said? Which I explicitly remember you saying, in one way or another, that you found little use, if any, of deciphering the "codes" as you called it.

One more thing....



What do you mean you are "well off"? The information you had posted, and blatantly taking credit for, was copied from another website. You spinelessly posted the entire artical without putting the original authors name. You may have had a chance to get away with it, but it is apparent that you intended to copy it, and write it off as your own. You took his name off of two seperate spots, once in the middle of the essay, and again at the end, then pasted it all here without saying one thing about it.

Any person who wants to read the real work can find that link at the bottom of my post. It was originaly typed up by G.M.Kelly, a.k.a. Frater Keallach 93/676.

http://www.geocities.com/athens/parthen ... iddle.html

http://www.geocities.com/athens/parthen ... iddle.html


What the fuck is with all these people trying to pretend they know stuff? Stealing shit, lying about what they do, acting like they have practiced stuff which they have not, etc? It is stupid, and really pisses me off, especially when you steal someone elses real work.

"..may your pyramid be profaned, and the Eye be closed upon you!" Even though, I am sure it was never even looking towards you.[/QUOTE]
First off this is for you :drama:
I guess i meant to say I'm off not well off as in I'm on the right track and no i didn't take credit for that it says within those texts who wrote it


so chill out you don't see me saying "Yeah i got it"

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Post by Occult Forum Archive »

Original post: IAO131

[QUOTE=Samuelofillumination;357391]It's a start but I still think I'm well off, first off the line has to mean something far more important then that.

I believe the time will come when the true meaning is defined.[/QUOTE]

Well first of all I was talking to AstralMagickCraft and second of all, thats not your own 'answer' to the Key.

IAO131

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Post by Occult Forum Archive »

Original post: Samuelofillumination

[QUOTE=IAO131;357449]Well first of all I was talking to AstralMagickCraft and second of all, thats not your own 'answer' to the Key.

IAO131[/QUOTE]

god ****** I never said it was mine and never took credit for it when I said well off I meant I'm off as in I don't got it

of course it's not mine I'm still barley understanding these concepts
take another :drama:

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Post by Occult Forum Archive »

Original post: IAO131

[QUOTE=Samuelofillumination;357452]god ****** I never said it was mine and never took credit for it when I said well off I meant I'm off as in I don't got it

of course it's not mine I'm still barley understanding these concepts
take another :drama:[/QUOTE]

No need to asterisk your damnits. It sure seemed like you were taking credit for it.

IAO131

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Post by Occult Forum Archive »

Original post: Samuelofillumination

[QUOTE=IAO131;357454]No need to asterisk your damnits. It sure seemed like you were taking credit for it.

IAO131[/QUOTE]

I'm finished the arguing I was adding an interesting page to this thread not saying "I figured this out" I meant well off as if off on what I've found, it clearly says in their who wrote it I'm sorry you misunderstood :drama:

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Post by Occult Forum Archive »

Original post: RifRaf

The violin playing smilie is your best answer?

:drama::drama::drama::drama:


Plus, it does not clearly say who wrote it, as you put it.

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Post by Occult Forum Archive »

Original post: Samuelofillumination

[QUOTE=RifRaf;357472]The violin playing smilie is your best answer?

:drama::drama::drama::drama:


Plus, it does not clearly say who wrote it, as you put it.[/QUOTE]

yes the violin smilie is the best answer I shall delete the post so you guys stop nagging.

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Post by Occult Forum Archive »

Original post: IAO131

[QUOTE=Samuelofillumination;357563]yes the violin smilie is the best answer I shall delete the post so you guys stop nagging.[/QUOTE]

Why get so upset if you have nothing to defend against? :drama:

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Post by Occult Forum Archive »

Original post: AstralMagickCraft

Funnily I had this conversation about you taking credit for it in PM with someone else who shall remain nameless, unless he doesn't want to I guess. :drama:

Furthermore :drama::drama::drama:

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Post by Occult Forum Archive »

Original post: RifRaf

[QUOTE=Samuelofillumination;357563]yes the violin smilie is the best answer I shall delete the post so you guys stop nagging.[/QUOTE]


No one is "nagging". We aren't telling you to take out the garbage over, and over, and over. That would be nagging. Not one of us told you to take the post down, so we were not nagging about that either.

If I am correct, which I may not be, I don't think you can edit an entry after it has been up for 24 hours or more. But for those who didn't get the chance to read it, here it is again.


[QUOTE=Samuelofillumination;357039]"The Book of the Law is connected more with the Greek Cabbala than with the Hebrew." - Aleister Crowley, The Confessions of Aleister Crowley, Hill and Wang, 1969 E.V., Chapter 85, Page 835.

The following was "inspired" on Rudemas Eve of 1983 E.V., written down in a more complex form and tucked away with Crowley's Commentaries to Liber AL vel Legis sub figura CCXX, The Book of the Law, where it rested while numerous individuals claiming either to be Aleister Crowley reincarnated or the Magical Child of the Beast 666 presented, with great fanfare (rather flat and off key) their so-called solutions to the "Riddle of AL", as Chapter II, Verse 76 came to be called by some. These "solutions" were sometimes complex, often irrational and had little or nothing to do with the Greek Qabalah.

As for that which follows, accept it or reject it and what you may choose to believe its presentation implies as you will. I am merely passing something on - something that, with little doubt, may one day be expanded in many different directions and dimensions.

"Aye! listen to the numbers & the words:"

- CCXX II.75

"A final revelation. The revealer to come is perhaps the one mentioned in I.55 and III.47. ..." [See Liber ILDH vel XLIX svb figvra DCLXXVI as published in the Newaeon Encyclical Letter of the 1984 E.V. Summer Solstice.]

"This passage following appears to be a Qabalistic test (on the regular pattern) of any person who may claim to be the Magical Heir of The Beast. Be ye well assured all that the solution, when it is found, will be unquestionable. It will be marked by the most sublime simplicity, and carry immediate conviction. ..." - Aleister Crowley, Magical and Philosophical Commentaries on The Book of the Law, 93 Publishing, 1974 E.V., pages 248-9; pages 258-9 of The Law Is For All, Llewellyn Publications, 1975 E.V.

"4 6 3 8 A B K 2 4 A L G M O R 3 Y X 24 89 R P S T O V A L. What meaneth this, o prophet? Thou knowest not; nor shalt thou know ever. There cometh one to follow thee: he shall expound it. But remember, o chosen one, to be me; to follow the love of Nu in the star-lit heaven; to look forth upon men, to tell them this glad word."

- CCXX II.76, the so-called "Riddle of AL".

The phrase "glad word" seems to be important. "Word", of course, immediately brings to mind the Greek word Logos, and Aleister Crowley, the Beast 666 or To Mega Therion, was the Logos of the present New Ã?on of Horus, the Crowned and Conquering Child. However, "word" is qualified by calling it "glad", thus one may be inclined to think that this "glad word", as opposed to "the Word", may refer to something or someone else - in this case both, as riddle and the revealer of the riddle's solution are one in a way that anyone who has experienced samadhi may understand via that experience.

The word "glad" in Greek is charmosynos, the numeration of which is 1731 (i.e. 600 + 1 + 100 + 40 + 70 + 200 + 400 + 50 + 70 + 200) and 1731 is also the numeration of gnosteros, which means "one that knows or warrants the truth of a thing, Lat. cognitor". [See Liddell and Scott's Greek-English Lexicon.] (It is also interesting to note that charmosynos may be rendered as charmosynon, the final Nu, being 50, replacing the final Sigma, being 200, thereby changing the numeration to 1581, which is also the numeration of Chi Xi Stau [Stau = Digamma], that is to say, 600 + 10 [610] + 60 + 10 [70] + 200 + 300 + 1 + 400 [901], and these Greek letters, Chi Xi Stau, represent the numbers 600, 60 and 6, otherwise Six Hundred Three Score and Six...666. [A "score" is 20, multiplied by 3 = 60.])

One way to render "glad word" into Greek would be charmosynos logos, the numeration of which is 2104, which is also the numeration of tes doxes tou theou, "the glory of God", as may be found in Romans 5.2 of the Judeo-Christian Bible, and tes eikonos autou, "his (i.e. the Beast's) image", from Revelation 15.2.

Another way to render "glad word" into Greek would be to join the words thusly: charmosynologos, dropping the final Sigma of charmosynos to do so, thus reducing the original numeration of 2104 by 200, giving the new variation of the word the numeration of 1904 - and as you should know, The Book of the Law was dictated to Crowley by Aiwass, his True Self or Holy Guardian Angel (Supraconscious Self or Mind), in the year of 1904 E.V. Thus the numeration of this book ... MCMIV or 1904.

The following appears in the scattered notes made by Aleister Crowley which were eventually to become Liber MCCLXIV, The Greek Qabalah [see Magick in Theory and Practice], which was never properly published, said notes being added to my as yet unpublished work on the Greek Qabalah, being, to date, 2,003 pages long, with 9,393 entries of varying length, in three volumes.

ABK: Alpha (532) + Beta (311) + Kappa (182) = 1025

ALGMOR: Alpha (532) + Lambda (78) + Gama* (45) + Mu (440) + Omikron (360) + Rho (900) = 2355. (*Gama is a legitimate alternate spelling of Gamma.)

YX: Upsilon (1260) + Xi (70) = 1330.

RPSTOVAL: In Greek characters, 100 + 80 + 200 + 300 + 70 + 6 + 1 + 30 = 787. (Exactly why Crowley did not spell RPSTOVAL out fully in Greek to achieve a numerical equivalent as he did with the other series of letters I cannot say. Perhaps it was because the number would have been too large and cumbersome. Perhaps it was inspiration. Perhaps, although he may have never committed it to paper, he discovered the solution, keeping it to himself, or at least had an inkling of its nature. Whatever the case may be, there are two alternatives I would like to at least give consideration to: [1] Rho Pi Sigma Tau Omicron Upsilon Alpha Lambda = 1181 = deuteron therion, "the second beast" [see Revelation 13.11], etc. [2] Rho Pi Sigma Tau Omega Upsilon Alpha Lambda = 1911 = Philtatops, found in Greek capitals in Crowley's notes and an odd variation of philtatos, "most beloved" or "dearest, most loved, best beloved", and o antichristos, "the antichrist", as can be found in 1 John 2.22 and 2 John 7.)

4 6 3 8 A B K 2 4 A L G M O R 3 Y X 24 89 R P S T O V A L

4..........4........aba, Aba.
6..........6........ea, Abba.
3..........3........Ba.
8..........8........Gad, ge.
ABK........1025.....dynatos, exakosioi exekonta ex.
2..........2........B (second letter of Greek alphabet)
4..........4........aba, Aba.
ALGMOR.....2355.....teleioseos.
3..........3........Ba.
YX.........1330.....christon, kyrio.
24.........24.......'Adith.
89.........89.......Athoth, edeethen.
RPSTOVAL...787......Gordius.
or.........1911.....philtatops, o antichristos.
or.........1181.....deuteron therion, apto, pheggous.

aba: the youth, the strength and freshness of youth; "manhood" in Crowley's notes.

Aba: An angelic luminary concerned with human sexuality.

Abba: Father; Aramaic word often used to address God.

ea: Ah! exclamation of wonder and pleasure.

Ba: O King! shortened form of Basileu.

Gad: good fortune; to attack (Hebrew: Gimel Daleth, GD); m. Gad - Rev. 7.5 and Gen. 30.11: "And Leah (cf. Leah Hirsig) said: 'Fortune is come!' And she called his name Gad."

ge: enclitic particle adding emphasis to the word with which it is associated. (This helps to set the tone of the solution's translation.)

dynatos: mighty.

exakosioi exekonta ex: six hundred and sixty-six (666) - Rev. 13.18.

B: following the number of the Beast, referring to the second beast, the "magical child".

aba: the youth, the strength and freshness of youth; "manhood" in Crowley's notes.

Aba: An angelic luminary concerned with human sexuality.

teleioseos: the fulfillment; the perfection.

Ba: O King! (See previously.)

christon: anointed or Anointed One (Christ), as in John 9.22.

kyrio: master (or lord), as in Rom. 14.4, 16, and Rev. 14.13.

'Adith: Hadith (the Centre).

Athoth: One of the 12 Gnostic Powers engendered by Iadalbaoth.

edeethen: please! ask, beg, pray, implore.

Gordius: The tier of the famous Gordian Knot, a knot (problem, riddle) so complicated that it resisted all attempts to untie (solve) it. Legend says that whoever could untie the knot would rule over all Asia. No one succeeded, but Alexander the Great cut the knot in two with his sword (symbol of reason and the magician's magical weapon used to banish "demons"). "Cutting the Gordian Knot" is today a figure of speech for solving a problem by direct action.

NOTE: Aleister Crowley's given name was Edward Alexander, Aleister being a variation of Alexander. And the reference to the sword, the means by which the Gordon Knot was "untied", reminds one of "The Sword of Horus", the feature article of The Newaeon Newsletter and a special magical title of Frater Militaris Ex Divus, the Adeptus Minor motto of Frater Keallach.

Thus, "4 6 3 8 A B K 2 4 A L G M O R 3 Y X 24 89 R P S T O V A L" becomes:

Aba (ea) Abba Ba (ge) Gad (dynatos) Exakosioi exekonta ex b aba Teleioseos Ba (christon) Kyrio 'Adith edeethen (Athoth) Gordius.

This is no more intended to be "good Greek" than is the language of The Book of the Law, written down by Aleister Crowley, a master of the English language, intended to be grammatically and otherwise proper.

It may be translated thusly:

Father (of) Manhood and Sexuality! O King (of) Fortune! Mighty (Beast) 666! The Second (Beast) (is come to) manhood, the youth [or child], the Perfection*, the Fulfillment (of the promise), O King! Master (of the Temple), Anointed One (who hath achieved) Hadith, (long) implored, called upon and invoked, (in the name of) Athoth (shut up in silence**). Tier of this Gordian Knot, the Antichrist, (thy) most Beloved One, the second beast, (thy Sword, the Sword of Horus, is here!)

*Elaboration upon such words can be made by reference to the Greek gematria that has appeared in various volumes of The Newaeon Newsletter.

**89, the numeration of Athoth, is also the numeration of GVPh, Gimel Vau Pe, "shut up", and DMMH, Daleth Mem Mem He, "silence" - see Sepher Sephiroth svb figvra D.

Although the answer to the riddle is supposed to be "unquestionable", anything can, and everything should be questioned, and no doubt this solution will be disputed by many...as well as elaborated upon.

A final note regarding the title: 76 (LXXVI) is the difference between 1875 and 1951, the years in which Aleister Crowley and G.M.Kelly, respectively, were born, as commonly reckoned. 76 is also the numeration of Nuith (Digamma = u here), ienai, "to go", einai, "I am, I am to be", and Athene, all to be found in Crowley's notes (Note: Pallas Athene = 418), agalma, "the image" of a god as an object of worship, "any image".

Love is the law, love under will.

Anno LXXXVI, Sol in Sagittarius

POST SCRIPT

I. It may be worth noting that, according to A Concise Etymological Dictionary of the English Language by the Rev. Walter W. Skeat, the word "glad" from the Anglo Saxon, "glaed", means "shining, bright, cheerful", with similar meanings in the equally more original forms to be found in other languages. This, perhaps, indicates the nature of this other "word", as well as the solution to the riddle.

II. Two Greek words with the numeration of 1181 that I did not add to the translation above may be added to the ending to indicate nature, that which follows, etc. (a) apto, "to fasten, fasten to or on, fix upon (a thing)...to fasten upon, attack...to touch, affect...to grasp with the senses, apprehend, perceive...to reach, overtake: to gain...to kindle, set on fire...", and (b) pheggous, or feggous, "light, splendor, luster: sunlight, daylight...light, gladness, joy...", according to Liddell and Scott. Another source defines apto very much the same, but adding "light".

III. Finally, a personal note: My Thelemic nature as well as my love of and impulse towards Justice has been involving me in battles against crime, from the most minor to the most heinous - battles not only against criminals, but also against uncaring government officials and a generally apathetic, lazy and stupid police force. I live in a community filled with universities and libraries, yet the week after a knifing next door I literally placed myself between a large, bear-like madman and the lives of twenty other people that he had threatened, along with my own. Being a bit too casual, and concerned more for the safety of the others, I took two hits to the face before caving the maniac's chest in with a single kick to end things neatly. A couple of weeks later a would-be rapist that I stopped proved himself a terrible fighter and three times I had him without being touched and could have easily killed him but instead exercised compassion. Truly, "Compassion is the vice of kings" (CCXX II.21), for then I slipped, fell, he had me for a few seconds, got a few good hits in to my face before I was up again, and got away as soon as the police finally arrived to take charge. Had he knocked me unconscious, he would have surely beaten me to death. Fortunately I have a natural resistance to things like intoxication and unconsciousness. The point being, on the verge of making great changes, the "negative", dying old aeon forces are naturally and automatically evoked by the greater manifestation of the "positive" New Aeon forces coming further into Being, naturally attacking the channels of the "93 Current". Be careful.


KEY: Alpha, A/a = 1; Beta, B/b = 2; Gamma, G/g = 3; Delta, D/d = 4; Epsilon, E/e (short-E) = 5; Digamma, F/f (U,V,W) = 6; Zeta, Z/z = 7; Eta, H/e = 8; Theta, Th/th = 9; Iota, I/i = 10; Kappa, K/k = 20; Lambda, L/l = 30; Mu, M/m = 40; Nu, N/n = 50; Xi, X/x = 60; Omicron, O/o (short-O) = 70; Pi, P/p = 80; Koppa, Q/q = 90; Rho, R/r = 100; Sigma, S/s = 200; Tau, T/t = 300; Upsilon, U/u V/v Y/y = 400; Phi, Ph/ph = 500; Chi, Ch/ch = 600; Psi, Ps/ps = 700; Omega, O/o (long-O) = 800; Sanpi, -) = 900.


hmmm...[/QUOTE]


*edit* Before I forget the theme of the thread, which fits perfectly in this case... :drama::drama:

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Post by Occult Forum Archive »

Original post: Circle of Twelve

OMG this thread is fucking funny and it actually got me researching online this mystery phrase. Some of the solutions out there are pretty far fetched. I can just picture some wigged out dude wandering around the streets repeating " four, six, three, eight, alpha beta kappa..." haha. Well when i get home today I am gonna pour over my old Hebraic dictionaries and shit like that and come up with my own answer to this riddle and post it here so that I can "enlighten all the masses and all (wo)men will stand in awe of it's perfection".

I mean this is kinda fun like the riddles on a cereal box... except what is the fun if when solving it you don't instatly become the leader of the OTO?

"From no known house my good man. All of this speculation and self-congratulation is for naught. There's more to magic than humping dead Englishmen's delusion and replacing them as your own. Let it go and get on with your life." - LMAO :D

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Post by Occult Forum Archive »

Original post: RifRaf

[QUOTE=Circle of Twelve;357800]
I mean this is kinda fun like the riddles on a cereal box... except what is the fun if when solving it you don't instatly become the leader of the OTO?

[/QUOTE]


Um.... :eh:

I am going to assume you are not a Thelemite? It is obvious that you have yet to read The Book of The Law. However, if you have read it then please refer back to the beginning of my response, and then read it again, and possibly once more just for good measure.

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Post by Occult Forum Archive »

Original post: Circle of Twelve

Like almost everyone on here I have read the Book of Law. I found it interesting. I never really studied this book like I have other Crowley books such as The book of wisdom or folly, the book of Thoth, and 777. I really love those. But alas you are right, although I have known plenty, I have never been a Thelemite.

Ritual magic seems to be more of an art form than a science so why suck your personal creativity out of it. Since I have never been a Thelemite I wouldnâ??t really know if this is the case, but from my experience when you have too many set rules and an hierarchy it tends to remove personal creativity. All that dogma muddies the original intent.

Joining the OTO out of reverence of Crowley is like joining the Republican party because you respect Lincoln. I donâ??t have anything against the OTO and I respect them and I wouldnâ??t join a Wiccan group or even the IOT either. I am not trying to step in any ceremonial robes here just having fun. I am still working on my interpretation of the line from The book of Law, so uh yah prepare for enlightenment.

I was not sure which post you were referring me to re-read so I just read them all again. Good Stuff!

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Post by Occult Forum Archive »

Original post: IAO131
Circle of Twelve;357959 wrote:Like almost everyone on here I have read the Book of Law. I found it interesting. I never really studied this book like I have other Crowley books such as The book of wisdom or folly, the book of Thoth, and 777. I really love those. But alas you are right, although I have known plenty, I have never been a Thelemite.
No need to adopt a label after entertaining his views.
Ritual magic seems to be more of an art form than a science so why suck your personal creativity out of it.
Crowley called Magick the Science & Art of causing Change in conformity with Will - perhaps its an admixture of both?
Since I have never been a Thelemite I wouldnâ??t really know if this is the case, but from my experience when you have too many set rules and an hierarchy it tends to remove personal creativity. All that dogma muddies the original intent.
Too many set rules? Whatever happened to There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt? Perhaps you're confusing Thelema with the OTO, one of the many organziations (although the largest), to have adopted Thelema.
Joining the OTO out of reverence of Crowley is like joining the Republican party because you respect Lincoln.
Not exactly - fraternal orders and political parties are a TAD different.
I donâ??t have anything against the OTO and I respect them and I wouldnâ??t join a Wiccan group or even the IOT either. I am not trying to step in any ceremonial robes here just having fun. I am still working on my interpretation of the line from The book of Law, so uh yah prepare for enlightenment.

I was not sure which post you were referring me to re-read so I just read them all again. Good Stuff!
Why waste your time on this aspect of Liber AL when you could explore much more interesting and pertinent parts? At times I think its a trap or a test to see if someone is so bogged down in calculations and whatnot that they don't get the real message of Thelema: Will, beauty, strength, force, fire, etc.

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Post by Occult Forum Archive »

Original post: Circle of Twelve

[QUOTE=IAO131;357972]

Crowley called Magick the Science & Art of causing Change in conformity with Will - perhaps its an admixture of both?

IAO131[/QUOTE]

Agreed.

[QUOTE=IAO131;357972]

Too many set rules? Whatever happened to There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt? Perhaps you're confusing Thelema with the OTO, one of the many organziations (although the largest), to have adopted Thelema.

IAO131[/QUOTE]

I was indeed confusing the two as one. I should have known better. I guess the OTO tends to be the most recognizable face of thelema. I have a question, is it always better to practice Thelema in a group or do the teachings lend themselves to individual work? Forgive my lack of knowledge and experience within thelema.

[QUOTE=IAO131;357972]

Not exactly - fraternal orders and political parties are a TAD different.


IAO131[/QUOTE]

Even though, I think my analogy is a good one! That TAD is very small, politics is a very potent occult weapon.

[QUOTE=IAO131;357972]

Why waste your time on this aspect of Liber AL when you could explore much more interesting and pertinent parts? At times I think its a trap or a test to see if someone is so bogged down in calculations and whatnot that they don't get the real message of Thelema: Will, beauty, strength, force, fire, etc.

IAO131[/QUOTE]

I am not wasting time on it, in fact I plan to not spend that much time creating my interpretation. It is more of a creative exercise for me.

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Post by Occult Forum Archive »

Original post: Heru66

Ava Nuit. ;)

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Post by Occult Forum Archive »

Original post: Luke Saint

Nuit is the Night and Hadit is Her passing.

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Post by Occult Forum Archive »

Original post: IAO131
Circle of Twelve;357984 wrote: I was indeed confusing the two as one. I should have known better. I guess the OTO tends to be the most recognizable face of thelema. I have a question, is it always better to practice Thelema in a group or do the teachings lend themselves to individual work? Forgive my lack of knowledge and experience within thelema.
To each his own. Or as we say, "Every man and every woman is a star" and each one has its own unique Will. I would say Thelema is fundamentally individual in the sense that it emphasizes Will but each person interacts with others all the time. Im speaking with you right now, for example.
I am not wasting time on it, in fact I plan to not spend that much time creating my interpretation. It is more of a creative exercise for me.
Whatever you like.

IAO131

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Re: 4 6 3 8 a b k 2 4 a l g m o r 3 y x 24 89 r p s t o v a

Post by Threefold31 »

Dwtw

I realize this is an ancient topic, but it's probably the best place to put this result of working on the Cipher which is the subject of this thread.

There are numerous solutions to this puzzle on the web, and many are collected in my essay on the subject which can be found here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/234506343/Sec ... aughts-2-0

My own solutions to the Cipher are also contained in the essay; one is based on Greek transliteration, the other on English gematria. These are not necessarily mutually exclusive, as the Cipher may have more than one solution. i will summarize the English version below.

In brief, the Trigrammaton English Gematria (TEG) is based on Crowley's letter-attributions to the trigrams of his Liber Trigrammaton sub figure XXVII, which he claimed (in the Old Comment to the Book of the Law) was the fulfillment of verse II:55 to "obtain the order & value of the English Alphabet". He later changed his mind, as he did not comprehend that the value of the letters comes from seeing the trigrams as numbers in base 3.

To make a long story short, the TEG arrives at a total of 267,696 for the entire contents of Liber CCXX, the Book of the Law. This grand total is found very easily in the Cipher, using only the numbers. Remember that in the original manuscript, the Cipher appears on two lines of text, like this:

4 6 3 8 A B K 2 4 A L G M O R 3 Y
X 24 89 R P S T O V A L.

The Cipher numbers are multiplied in serial order up to, but not including, the final number 89; this results in 24^4. Then going in reverse order, starting with 89, the two numbers of the bottom row are multiplied by the sum of the numbers in the top row. The second product is subtracted from the first product, resulting in a number which is the exact grand total of Liber CCXX:

(4 * 6 * 3 * 8 * 2 * 4 * 3 * 24) - {(89 * 24) * (3 + 4 + 2 + 8 + 3 + 6 + 4)} =
(24^4) - (89 * 24 * 30) =
331,776 - 64080 =
267,696 = the grand total of Liber CCXX


This result justifies the use of the TEG on the text, and therefore the next step is to use those gematria values on the letters of the Cipher to see what it produces. The answer is the exact same number of the grand total. The method is to sum all the numbers, and the four groups of letters separately; multiply two pairs of letter groups, find the difference between them, then multiply by the sum of the numbers, thus:

(4 + 6 + 3 + 8 + 2 + 4 + 3 + 24 + 89) times
{( A + B + K ) * (R + P + S + T + O + V + A + L)} minus
{(A + L + G + M + O + R) * (Y + X)} equals

143 times
{(5 + 20 + 17) * (14 + 4 + 15 + 9 + 10 + 22 + 5 + 1)} minus
{(5 + 1 + 11 + 21 + 10 + 14) * (18 + 6)} equals

143 * {(42 * 80) - (62 * 24)} = 143 * (3360 - 1488) = 143 * 1872 = 267,696


In short, we have: 143 * {(ABK * RPSTOVAL) - (ALGMOR * YX)} = the grand total of Liber CCXX


We can either see these two results as separate instances of the same grand total, or we can subtract one from the other, to leave no remainder, and reduce the Cipher to Zero.


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Re: 4 6 3 8 a b k 2 4 a l g m o r 3 y x 24 89 r p s t o v a

Post by Desecrated »

This seems to be the best explanation I've found:

http://trigrammaton.com/the-great-ciphe ... legis.html

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