Baader-Meinhof phenomenon

[Desecrated]

The illusion in which a word, a name, or other thing that has recently come to one's attention suddenly seems to appear with improbable frequency shortly afterwards.
This illusion is known as the Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon.

[WillowDarkWytch]

Motumbá Àse

Sometimes the "Higher conscious" sends "messages" or atention to something, and you see it everywhere too. It's not that it appears for you, it hs always been there but you notice it. Sometimes we call it synchronicity. For others are spirits pointing out certain stuff so you put attention. Either way, it has a purpose behind.

Not everything is the Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon, which is directly related to our sense of wonder.

Just saying

Saravá
Idansinají

[Ušušur]

To me, it used to happen that I have some sort of original idea (at least I thought it was original). I would get hyped about it and start developing it into some kind of story which usually takes a few weeks, and just when I'm about to write it down, bam, I see EXACT SAME THING in a new trailer or an article that's announcing a new movie.

This was happening so frequently at one point I started to believe there are people that are using entities or whatever supernatural means to steal ideas that are not manifested fast enough, if that makes sense.

Wishful thinking...

[WillowDarkWytch]

Motumbá Àse Ususur

There is this thought that everything, every idea, is in a sort of "sea of thoughts" so, we humans, have a sensor, an anthena, that catches those thoughts/ideas. Maybe you were "align" with the same idea that those writers, but they were faster and had more resources to make it happen.

With that theory goes the one that none of the human inventions are really human, but received. Does that make sense to you? For me it does and it's sort of my belief too

Saravá
Idansinají

[Desecrated]

I'm a big fan of synchronicity and serendipity, But I also think that there are "normal" processes going on. If somebody you know buys a green car, you'll start seeing green cars everywhere.
If you read a book about occult symbolism, you'll start seeing occult symbolism everywhere.

That is what Baader-Meinhof phenomenon describes, and we see it a lot in beginners who comes to this forum thinking that they have been cursed, because they've recently read about curses online and now everything in their life fits this new pattern of information.

When the universe is sending you messages it tends to be more abstract. Just like Ušušur mentioned, you tend to pick up information from unlikely sources. And it's usually just a word or two. Not an entire article.

Now there are two different ways of looking at this. There is 'determinism' which says that the reason you picked up the article in the first hand was for a reason, and EVERYTHING that happens is for a reason. And then the more Materialistic view that although there are causality-chains there is also randomness and chaos.

[WillowDarkWytch]

I know what you mean. Just that the first post isn't clear to what is pointing to.

Synchronicity also goes through "normal" processes. I know that beginners have this tendency to "buy" everything or to believe they are "special" amongst the special, or that they're victims of some kind of creature or etc etc etc. Then we, the "older ones", the ones with years of practise and study, know that those things seldom happen and must try to explain that to them. So, I'm right there with you on that.

Ususur didn't say that. Where did he say that? I don't see it, was it on another thread? [stare]

And normaly messages come through symbols, signs, colors, and as you said, a word or two.

I'm just of the idea that things happen for a reason, even chaos has it's purpose, nothing it's just "random", even the "randomness" has its purpose. And even that "randomness" can take you somewhere. Nothing scapes causality.

[Ušušur]

Motumbá Àse Ususur

There is this thought that everything, every idea, is in a sort of "sea of thoughts" so, we humans, have a sensor, an anthena, that catches those thoughts/ideas. Maybe you were "align" with the same idea that those writers, but they were faster and had more resources to make it happen.

With that theory goes the one that none of the human inventions are really human, but received. Does that make sense to you? For me it does and it's sort of my belief too

Saravá
Idansinají

That's Rupert Sheldrake and his theory of morphogenetic field/resonance I believe. I've stumbled upon it in that cool Alan Moore documentary but I didn't researched it any further. As I understood, according to him, we don't use brains to store memory (!) but more like radio receivers that catch something from that endless sea of thoughts and ideas. It makes sense to me, and it's actually comforting in some way.

As for that other theory, I don't know. Maybe not all human inventions are actually human, but all of them? Wouldn't that mean everything is received, including language, words, anything that separates us from animals?

[WillowDarkWytch]

That's Rupert Sheldrake and his theory of morphogenetic field/resonance I believe. I've stumbled upon it in that cool Alan Moore documentary but I didn't researched it any further. As I understood, according to him, we don't use brains to store memory (!) but more like radio receivers that catch something from that endless sea of thoughts and ideas. It makes sense to me, and it's actually comforting in some way.

I don't know if it's Rupert Sheldrake, I'd lie if I say "YES that's it", but the theory, yes, that was what I was talking about [wink]

As for that other theory, I don't know. Maybe not all human inventions are actually human, but all of them? Wouldn't that mean everything is received, including language, words, anything that separates us from animals?

I don't know if there are more theories about it, but it is something like that, that the brain in more like some sort of receiver/filter of the Mind and the Conscience. What separates us from animals that would be The Conscience. The level of development of the conscience is what differenciate us. The ability of perceiving those thoughts and ideas would be that.

[Desecrated]

I'm just of the idea that things happen for a reason, even chaos has it's purpose, nothing it's just "random", even the "randomness" has its purpose. And even that "randomness" can take you somewhere. Nothing scapes causality.

I've never liked that idea. If everything has meaning, the whole thing becomes meaningless in some sense.
I guess I just like my chaos to be chaotic.

[Desecrated]

That's Rupert Sheldrake and his theory of morphogenetic field/resonance I believe.

And a little bit of Jung Collective unconscious theory.
But sheldrake has some really good talks on youtube unless you want to dive into his books, that frankly are worth the time to read, but can be a bit dense.
They are the kind of books where you read a couple of pages and then have to take a break and just think about what you just read.

[WillowDarkWytch]

I guess I just like my chaos to be chaotic.

Then, in my opinion, you wouldn't be understanding what Chaos is all about. Maybe you're confusing your desire for the certain "freedom" and sense of "adventure" that chaos or chaotic functioning gives, with the real meaning of Chaos, which would be real Order, and therefore has its meaning behind.

Anyway, I think that everyone has its way to experience things, depending on the things learned, seen and experiences lived.

It all depends on the "grade and dignity" of the initiate.

[Desecrated]

I guess I just like my chaos to be chaotic.

the real meaning of Chaos, which would be real Order

Definition of chaos

: complete confusion and disorder : a state in which behavior and events are not controlled by anything.

[WillowDarkWytch]

Definition of chaos

: complete confusion and disorder :

That would be the "colloquial" usage of the word. As in "it was all chaos!!".

a state in which behavior and events are not controlled by anything.

That could be a more "transcendental" meaning, if you want, and that it's not controlled by anything doesn't mean it doesn't have its own "order".

This, taken from Wikipedia, that you guys love to quote:

Chaos may refer to any state of confusion or disorder, it may also refer to:

Lawlessness (disambiguation), a lack of laws or law enforcement
Anarchy, lawlessness or a stateless society

Mythology, philosophy, and religion[edit]
Chaos (mythology), in Greek mythology, the primal void.
Chaos (cosmogony), the concept in classical creation myths
Chaos magic, a branch of occultism
Chaos, especially in biblical usage, a chasm or abyss

So, when we talk of Chaos here, we're talking in "phlosophical" means and there is way more to "disorder and confusion".

Again, my opinion

[WillowDarkWytch]

PS: We're deviating from the thread, don't we?

[Desecrated]

and that it's not controlled by anything doesn't mean it doesn't have its own "order".

THAT is the exact meaning of it. Chaos is the absence of order.

Order - opposite - Disorder.
Disorder - synonom - (absence of order): chaos, entropy

[Desecrated]

PS: We're deviating from the thread, don't we?

We have to do that sometimes to learn how to communicate ideas. You either believe in chaos the way it is defined, or you have your own view of chaos, or simply don't except the term.
we have our fair share of "i reject your reality and substitute my own"-people on this forum.

[WillowDarkWytch]

THAT is the exact meaning of it. Chaos is the absence of order.

Order - opposite - Disorder.
Disorder - synonom - (absence of order): chaos, entropy

Nope, your just defining the "conduct" or the perception of its manifestation. The real meaning of Chaos is "movement". Is constant and apparently without direction, but has its own order within it. This, appart from the philosophical studies, I have spoken with lots of Chaos Magician, and say MAGICIANS, not kids charging sigils with masturbation to get a laid, and we all agree in that. Chaos has order and is its own order.

You either believe in chaos the way it is defined, or you have your own view of chaos, or simply don't except the term.

Don't agree. Basicaly your telling me to accept what you say even when I'm giving you, not mine, but phylosofical and spiritual point of view. Your statement it's closer to "you eiher belive wht I SAY chaos is" more than the real difeinition. I invite you to throw away your english dictionary and to grab occult, hermetic and phylosophical books on the subject. Even mathematical texts has some pretty good explanations. You'll get a lot more inside on Chaos.

we have our fair share of "i reject your reality and substitute my own"-people on this forum.

I think you're in that group, specially when it's about my posts [wink] But you're in your right to do so, also.

[Nahemah]

First up,I've never heard this called by the Red Army Faction leaders names before, so that's new for me.

Frequency illusion, however, yes, I'm familiar with that.

This thread has drifted too far, into a two way argument over the nature of chaos. That is another topic in it's own right and discussion needs to get back to frequency illusion/ cognitive biases and relevant issues to these.

[Desecrated]

I invite you to throw away your english dictionary and to grab occult, hermetic and phylosophical books on the subject.

So you basically want me to ignore the reality I believe in and substitute it with somebodies else idea of reality?

[Desecrated]

Nope, your just defining the "conduct" or the perception of its manifestation. The real meaning of Chaos is "movement". Is constant and apparently without direction, but has its own order within it. This, appart from the philosophical studies, I have spoken with lots of Chaos Magician, and say MAGICIANS, not kids charging sigils with masturbation to get a laid, and we all agree in that. Chaos has order and is its own order.

No the real meaning of the word chaos is what I quoted. That is the accepted reality that most people have. What you're talking about are alternative views on the concept of chaos.
We are talking about two different things here.

Don't agree. Basicaly your telling me to accept what you say even when I'm giving you, not mine, but phylosofical and spiritual point of view. Your statement it's closer to "you eiher belive wht I SAY chaos is" more than the real difeinition.

I'm not telling you anything. I'm just providing information.

[Nahemah]

This is what I find interesting so far, regarding the renaming of the phenomenon and more:

http://www.mnn.com/health/fitness-well- ... where-soon

So, why Baader Meinhof?

"..How the term "Baader-Meinhof" became associated with this phenomenon is far from simple or scientific, though.

The Baader-Meinhof Group, or Baader-Meinhof Gang, was a leftist West German militant group from the 1970s also known as the Red Army Faction. The RAF was a terrorist organization, according to the German government, which carried out bombings throughout the nation.

One report says the name of the terrorist group first was linked to the psychological concept in, of all places, the comments section of an online article.

If that’s true, the common name for this particular mind-bending occurrence — a name that has become so well-accepted that it appears in the Urban Dictionary — probably came about because someone, somewhere had no idea what Baader-Meinhof was.

One day, this person first heard about the left-wing radical group. Then it was everywhere. The person dubbed it a "Baader-Meinhof" experience. Somehow, it stuck."

What is frequency illusion?

"The Frequency Illusion is a result of two well-known psychological processes, selective attention (noticing things that are salient to us, disregarding the rest) and confirmation bias (looking for things that support our hypotheses, disregarding potential counter evidence)..."

And how common is this, do we all experience it?

"A whole list of cognitive biases is now recognized, and one, specifically, is in play with what we now call (in the non-scientific world) the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon. This cognitive bias is called "frequency illusion. Arnold Zwicky, a Stanford linguist, is credited with coining that term, said that, "people who are reflective about language — professional linguists, people who set themselves up as authorities on language, and ordinary people who are simply interested in language — are especially prone to the Frequency Illusion."

Another source:

http://www.damninteresting.com/the-baad ... henomenon/

How does one get around this, is it possible?

I think it's quite intriguing that we are discussing a term associated with terrorism in the 70s, given the current situation in Europe. Timely.

Also, confirmation biases and the frequency illusion are all over our mainstream press here, seems they can be useful tools when you know how to set them up for others.

Thoughts on this?

[Desecrated]

and that it's not controlled by anything doesn't mean it doesn't have its own "order".

THAT is the exact meaning of it. Chaos is the absence of order.

Order - opposite - Disorder.
Disorder - synonom - (absence of order): chaos, entropy

This is were I went wrong in this discussion. Let me rephrase it. Because if I just read that statement, it does sound like I'm talking in absolutes.

THAT (chaos without order)is the textbook meaning of it. The accepted use of the word as definied by the majority and quoted from a reputational source.
Chaos is usually defined as the absence of ALL order. And I actually believe or prefer that definition myself.

[Desecrated]

What is frequency illusion?

"The Frequency Illusion is a result of two well-known psychological processes, selective attention (noticing things that are salient to us, disregarding the rest) and confirmation bias (looking for things that support our hypotheses, disregarding potential counter evidence)..."

And how common is this, do we all experience it?

It is believed in modern psychology that this influences everybody in some way or form.
It is believed to be beneficial to survival.
If my friend gets bit by a snake and dies, it's natural for me to assume that all snakes are deadly. Now, we know that this isn't true. But until I receive that information, it is beneficial for me to rely on my previous experience.

BUT what confirmation bias does negatively is that it sometimes prevents us from taking on new information. If I truly believe that ALL snakes are bad, it doesn't mater how many people tell me that some are not bad, I will simply adjust it into: MOST snakes are bad. And when I go and read up on snakes, I will miss the information of how many non-venomous snakes there are and concentrate on how many more threats there are.

Now. The really weird thing about this phenomenon; is that it subscribes a situation that I've not experienced, but something I've only heard or read about.
An extreme example are people who are afraid of Muslims, but have never been a target of Muslims themselves. But because their first introduction to the subject is negative they continue to see all information about Muslims as negative.

How does one get around this, is it possible?

By being aware of it.
By recognizing that we sometimes make mistake and that we sometimes need to re-evaluate our own opinion. AND that our perceived reality is just our perception of it.

Also, confirmation biases and the frequency illusion are all over our mainstream press here, seems they can be useful tools when you know how to set them up for others.

Thoughts on this?

[/quote][/quote]

Absolutely. You can use this to flame the fire. We can pick and choose from reality to create a false reality and then present that as fact. This is what every sect and cult does. And so does companies and media.

We have to realize that what we read in the newspapper is someones perceived reality of what happened (eye-witness), interpreted by someones else bias (the newsreporter), Edited with bias and then we read it with more bias.