Original post: True_Undead
I usually try not to get into heated debates at my school. Im sorry to say that i only listened as a substitute teacher and a few students discuss their beliefs on homosexuallity. The reason i am writting because of what the teacher said. The sub stated that being gay was a sin, that it is bringing the morals of our society down, and it creates twisted children (im guessing hse means adobted). She also say that she fully believes in the bible, that it doesnt contradict itself, and the 66 books were written by 33 authors...
I now realize why teachers are told not to share their opinions or preach...I am not gay but i do take offense to what she said. Just the way she said it...filled with so much hate like she wanted to kill all gay people...you could feel the hate. I also know for a fact that kids rasied by gay parents do not turn out twisted (she actully said twisted!) becausei have friends who seemed to have turned out pretty normal...and actully have better values than most kids raised by strait parents.
I really needed to rant about this...its been building all day.
so what do you think....
gay marriage
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Original post: Babalon_Reborn
unfortunately that attitude is nothing new... its moronic and imbecile, and all social data shows that the children actually do end up more apt to go through a homophobic stage between 10 & 12, but after that are more mentally balanced than most...
People like that just get at my last nerve and I let them know it... Sorry you had to deal with that. Its nothing new for many of us in the alternative lifestyle crowd...
unfortunately that attitude is nothing new... its moronic and imbecile, and all social data shows that the children actually do end up more apt to go through a homophobic stage between 10 & 12, but after that are more mentally balanced than most...
People like that just get at my last nerve and I let them know it... Sorry you had to deal with that. Its nothing new for many of us in the alternative lifestyle crowd...
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Original post: Sidhe
--- Sorry to hear the the teacher was an ass, report this person for breaking the rules on not preaching/so on... Not saying to wage a gay rights battle or any thing, but if she is reported it might get put into her file and or possible punnishment for it... If nothing else, it might make this person think again before blithering on BS to students...
--- I think it's nuts that two people of legal age and sound mind, are not alowed to join together in the legal contract called marrige...
Throw all the other details out and it's that simple...
We can make legal business partnerships that are valid, and hold all the legal crap, irreguardless of gender or orientation,Yet not get married?
It makes no sence...
--- On a more personal rant, It makes even less sence that slues of people can get married every day in say Las Vegas after only knowing one another long enough to pound down a few shots of taquila, but I can't marry the womyn that I've been with for the past 13yrs...
Or, that even though we have 2 children still in the home and one off on his own, and a granddaughter, that some people and many of the laws discount us as a family unit... But as soon as the single mom with a dozen kids all by differant men, hooks up with a guy and he moves in, people start instantly calling them a family... Dosn't matter that she's had a new man around for 3 - 4 months at a time and a new one waiting to fill his place...
again dosn't make sence...
--- church and state should not mix...
They set the damn rules down, and they need follow them without personal or religiouse oppinion in the mix...
--- I'd even be satisfied with some type of soley non-religiouse contract marrige, hell call it something else for all I care, so long as it comes with all the same rights as a marrige...
Here we can get registered partnerships/unions, but it's basicly worth nothing other than the $20.00 fee thats charge for it... It dosn't stand up in court upon illness, death, or in th event of death the persons belongings/assets, so on... Even wills/power of attourney and other such things like who the kids go to upon the person dieing or becomming severly ill, dosn't hold up in court if a parent of close reletive contests it...
Not asking for more or special treatment, or anyone to like or dislike any of it, just asking for equel treatment...
~~~SIDHE~~~
--- Sorry to hear the the teacher was an ass, report this person for breaking the rules on not preaching/so on... Not saying to wage a gay rights battle or any thing, but if she is reported it might get put into her file and or possible punnishment for it... If nothing else, it might make this person think again before blithering on BS to students...
--- I think it's nuts that two people of legal age and sound mind, are not alowed to join together in the legal contract called marrige...
Throw all the other details out and it's that simple...
We can make legal business partnerships that are valid, and hold all the legal crap, irreguardless of gender or orientation,Yet not get married?
It makes no sence...
--- On a more personal rant, It makes even less sence that slues of people can get married every day in say Las Vegas after only knowing one another long enough to pound down a few shots of taquila, but I can't marry the womyn that I've been with for the past 13yrs...
Or, that even though we have 2 children still in the home and one off on his own, and a granddaughter, that some people and many of the laws discount us as a family unit... But as soon as the single mom with a dozen kids all by differant men, hooks up with a guy and he moves in, people start instantly calling them a family... Dosn't matter that she's had a new man around for 3 - 4 months at a time and a new one waiting to fill his place...
again dosn't make sence...
--- church and state should not mix...
They set the damn rules down, and they need follow them without personal or religiouse oppinion in the mix...
--- I'd even be satisfied with some type of soley non-religiouse contract marrige, hell call it something else for all I care, so long as it comes with all the same rights as a marrige...
Here we can get registered partnerships/unions, but it's basicly worth nothing other than the $20.00 fee thats charge for it... It dosn't stand up in court upon illness, death, or in th event of death the persons belongings/assets, so on... Even wills/power of attourney and other such things like who the kids go to upon the person dieing or becomming severly ill, dosn't hold up in court if a parent of close reletive contests it...
Not asking for more or special treatment, or anyone to like or dislike any of it, just asking for equel treatment...
~~~SIDHE~~~
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Original post: BrokenIris
True Undead
Out of curiosity...do you attend a private or public school? Something similar to this happened with my daughter in a public high school, however it involved strictly religion. I have never been more proud of her in my life when I saw how she handled it. I have some insight and comments on this but would like to know if you are in a public school system, so I will wait before I post more.
Iris
True Undead
Out of curiosity...do you attend a private or public school? Something similar to this happened with my daughter in a public high school, however it involved strictly religion. I have never been more proud of her in my life when I saw how she handled it. I have some insight and comments on this but would like to know if you are in a public school system, so I will wait before I post more.
Iris
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Original post: Lord Ruthven
If this happened in America (and your prfile says you're from Wisconsin) then wasn't that against the law? I thought religion wasn't allowed in US state schools.
If this happened in America (and your prfile says you're from Wisconsin) then wasn't that against the law? I thought religion wasn't allowed in US state schools.
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Original post: zcree
.... being Gay is Natural and Normal, very Special People >>>----> zcree 8-)
.... being Gay is Natural and Normal, very Special People >>>----> zcree 8-)
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Original post: BrokenIris
If it is a public school, then you are correct, the comments the teacher made were not allowed. When my duaghter was in high school, she was Wiccan. She refused to participate in the "Pledge" because she strongly disagreed with a few phrases in it. When she told me about it, I told her she had choices to make and I could not make them for her. There would be consequences involved, regardless of her decision. She never disrespected others as they stood and recited the Pledge, however she chose to refuse to stand and recite it. Her teacher became extremely angry and she was told she would get an "F" in conduct if she refused. She was a straight "A" student preparing to graduate with High Honors. She argued with him. She was sent to the Principle of course. The teacher was soon called to the office as well. A trip to the school board happened that week. They demanded she inform them what religion she was, as she had told them that her choice was due to religion reasons. She told them she did not have to justify her religious beliefs to them. She received her "A" in conduct and sat quietly in her seat as others stood for the Pledge. She endured ridicule and mockery from some of her fellow students the remainder of her high school years.
However....
True Undead....if this is a public school and you choose to voice your opinion on this, you must understand it will not end there. In your situation, your religious preference will be picked apart and mocked by other students (and most likely teachers as well), Your belief system will be twisted and bastardized by those who do not understand. In regards to the "gay marriage", I hate to have to put it bluntly to you dear but, gay or not, you will be called gay, assumed gay and treated as gay by other students. This will most likely carry over to your friendships and depending on how loyal they are, you may lose some from your circle of friends because they might now be strong enough to endure being mocked as the "one that hangs out with that gay person". This is sad and pathetic, but unfortunately that is how life is sometimes, especially in school. If you feel strongly about this and cannot sit by and allow this disrespectful teacher abuse the rights given to you as a student (and yes believe it or not you have rights), then stand up and speak. Tell her how you feel and don't stop there, go over her head. Stop her from doing this before she takes every generation of children who will follow you and manipulates and brainwashes them into little conservative christian clones. However....prepare yourself for what may follow, and if you choose to take that Path....understand it will not be an easy one to walk.
The choice is yours.
I would like to add that I am in no way disrespecting gays or christians with this post. I would hope the good people I talk to on this forum that are gay understand that and I think they will. I am merely stating that, if you stand up and defend the rights of someone's sexual preference and/or religion, which I have done many times in this life, you stand to endure the ridicule, mistreatment and injustices the person you are defending has to endure almost daily. In my opinion, it is worth it. I can handle it and would not lower my beliefs and compassion standards for anyone. For some, they are not strong enough to handle it, and therefore.....crash. So....I apologize if this post insulted anyone, that was not, nor will ever be, my intention on these forums.
Iris
If it is a public school, then you are correct, the comments the teacher made were not allowed. When my duaghter was in high school, she was Wiccan. She refused to participate in the "Pledge" because she strongly disagreed with a few phrases in it. When she told me about it, I told her she had choices to make and I could not make them for her. There would be consequences involved, regardless of her decision. She never disrespected others as they stood and recited the Pledge, however she chose to refuse to stand and recite it. Her teacher became extremely angry and she was told she would get an "F" in conduct if she refused. She was a straight "A" student preparing to graduate with High Honors. She argued with him. She was sent to the Principle of course. The teacher was soon called to the office as well. A trip to the school board happened that week. They demanded she inform them what religion she was, as she had told them that her choice was due to religion reasons. She told them she did not have to justify her religious beliefs to them. She received her "A" in conduct and sat quietly in her seat as others stood for the Pledge. She endured ridicule and mockery from some of her fellow students the remainder of her high school years.
However....
True Undead....if this is a public school and you choose to voice your opinion on this, you must understand it will not end there. In your situation, your religious preference will be picked apart and mocked by other students (and most likely teachers as well), Your belief system will be twisted and bastardized by those who do not understand. In regards to the "gay marriage", I hate to have to put it bluntly to you dear but, gay or not, you will be called gay, assumed gay and treated as gay by other students. This will most likely carry over to your friendships and depending on how loyal they are, you may lose some from your circle of friends because they might now be strong enough to endure being mocked as the "one that hangs out with that gay person". This is sad and pathetic, but unfortunately that is how life is sometimes, especially in school. If you feel strongly about this and cannot sit by and allow this disrespectful teacher abuse the rights given to you as a student (and yes believe it or not you have rights), then stand up and speak. Tell her how you feel and don't stop there, go over her head. Stop her from doing this before she takes every generation of children who will follow you and manipulates and brainwashes them into little conservative christian clones. However....prepare yourself for what may follow, and if you choose to take that Path....understand it will not be an easy one to walk.
The choice is yours.
I would like to add that I am in no way disrespecting gays or christians with this post. I would hope the good people I talk to on this forum that are gay understand that and I think they will. I am merely stating that, if you stand up and defend the rights of someone's sexual preference and/or religion, which I have done many times in this life, you stand to endure the ridicule, mistreatment and injustices the person you are defending has to endure almost daily. In my opinion, it is worth it. I can handle it and would not lower my beliefs and compassion standards for anyone. For some, they are not strong enough to handle it, and therefore.....crash. So....I apologize if this post insulted anyone, that was not, nor will ever be, my intention on these forums.
Iris
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Original post: Sidhe
--- My best advice if your going to get involved further with this one, is to wage your war soley on the fact that religion/beliefs arn't suppose to be alowed...
And Or, a very simple base of equel rights and seperation of church and state...
---Getting in any deeper will bring much more BS your way in just about all areas of your life...
Good Luck
~~~SIDHE~~~
--- My best advice if your going to get involved further with this one, is to wage your war soley on the fact that religion/beliefs arn't suppose to be alowed...
And Or, a very simple base of equel rights and seperation of church and state...
---Getting in any deeper will bring much more BS your way in just about all areas of your life...
Good Luck
~~~SIDHE~~~
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Original post: Dunhill
Another question on this is that was the discussion somehow related to a class or was it just talking with the teacher? If the former then complain about it to the principal and that sub might find it hard to find work. If the latter than the teacher is expressing his/her views as allowed for freedom of expression. However engaging students in such a discussion could be allowed but I would deem inappropriate.
Another question on this is that was the discussion somehow related to a class or was it just talking with the teacher? If the former then complain about it to the principal and that sub might find it hard to find work. If the latter than the teacher is expressing his/her views as allowed for freedom of expression. However engaging students in such a discussion could be allowed but I would deem inappropriate.
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Original post: Jakaris
[QUOTE=BrokenIris]She endured ridicule and mockery from some of her fellow students the remainder of her high school years.[/QUOTE]
Really???? In first period today, I don't think more than 40% of the students stood for the pledge. Well, we have a leanient teacher who lets us play games on the 30 or so computers in there, so I guess that just makes for a more layed-back atmosphere, but it still seems to me like the pledge isn't taken seriously anymore, for good reason. It's a small brainwash session.... Thats good what happened with your daughter though
In my opinion, either do nothing, or wait till she's talking to those other kids, and then call her out on her BS, along with the fact she can't say that, not loudly, but just loud enough so that the whole class can hear (I'm at a VERY relaxed school lol, might not work for you)
[QUOTE=BrokenIris]She endured ridicule and mockery from some of her fellow students the remainder of her high school years.[/QUOTE]
Really???? In first period today, I don't think more than 40% of the students stood for the pledge. Well, we have a leanient teacher who lets us play games on the 30 or so computers in there, so I guess that just makes for a more layed-back atmosphere, but it still seems to me like the pledge isn't taken seriously anymore, for good reason. It's a small brainwash session.... Thats good what happened with your daughter though
In my opinion, either do nothing, or wait till she's talking to those other kids, and then call her out on her BS, along with the fact she can't say that, not loudly, but just loud enough so that the whole class can hear (I'm at a VERY relaxed school lol, might not work for you)
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Original post: Dunhill
On a similar note it was recently the pro-life/anti-choice wear an anti-abortion T-shirt day this week. As such there were a lot of kids roaming high school halls across the country with a T-shirt saying 'Abortions kill children' with a picture of a well developed fetus. At several local high schools nothing happened, but at one they were sent to the office to make them remove them. The reasoning was that they would create a disturbance (but at the time weren't) The students protested, claimes they were threated with suspension, made the news, etc. Today the faculty backed off and said that indeed they were wrong. Some serious PR backpedaling on both sides really as the student's claims of abuse seemed exaggerated as well. No harm no foul as it were.
http://www.nationalprolifetshirtday.com/ Not very good pics of the shirt in question. There is a link to the story in the local paper but the site appears down at the moment.
The true irony in this case is that it happened at the same high school that spawned the Tinker case that made it to the US Supreme Court where students were suspended for wearing black armbands protesting the Vietnam War. To paraphrase the ruling - kids don't check their opinions at the door to high school. The same applies to teachers.
With teachers however there is a fine line to sharing their opinion and entering that into the school curriculum. This line has attempted to be defined in the courts with regards to evolution/creationism and entered the public forum with regards to biased history courses. However this line will probaly continue to be blurred which I take as a good thing. Too many rules and regulations stifle discourse and make people afraid to talk about things. This is a dangerious thing - especially in our schools.
On a similar note it was recently the pro-life/anti-choice wear an anti-abortion T-shirt day this week. As such there were a lot of kids roaming high school halls across the country with a T-shirt saying 'Abortions kill children' with a picture of a well developed fetus. At several local high schools nothing happened, but at one they were sent to the office to make them remove them. The reasoning was that they would create a disturbance (but at the time weren't) The students protested, claimes they were threated with suspension, made the news, etc. Today the faculty backed off and said that indeed they were wrong. Some serious PR backpedaling on both sides really as the student's claims of abuse seemed exaggerated as well. No harm no foul as it were.
http://www.nationalprolifetshirtday.com/ Not very good pics of the shirt in question. There is a link to the story in the local paper but the site appears down at the moment.
The true irony in this case is that it happened at the same high school that spawned the Tinker case that made it to the US Supreme Court where students were suspended for wearing black armbands protesting the Vietnam War. To paraphrase the ruling - kids don't check their opinions at the door to high school. The same applies to teachers.
With teachers however there is a fine line to sharing their opinion and entering that into the school curriculum. This line has attempted to be defined in the courts with regards to evolution/creationism and entered the public forum with regards to biased history courses. However this line will probaly continue to be blurred which I take as a good thing. Too many rules and regulations stifle discourse and make people afraid to talk about things. This is a dangerious thing - especially in our schools.
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Original post: Calintz
you can't blame people for their beleifs, you can however blame society and parents. Rofl. o-o; Anyway, i ain't down on gay marriage if your a christian because it states in the bible 'sodomys a nono' among other things...however most so called 'christians' would be priests if they had any common sense for fear of doing such awful things in their life, and for fear of hell. Nonetheless...If you are a christian an support Gay marriage, (which is defined as union between man an woman under God) Then...your not christian, your something else?
This seems like im being cruel or nazi'ish or whatever, im not. I'm merely picking out plot holes in christian dogma, so chill. I don't beleive in Gay marriage because...Hmm, i like to make things difficult for people
you can't blame people for their beleifs, you can however blame society and parents. Rofl. o-o; Anyway, i ain't down on gay marriage if your a christian because it states in the bible 'sodomys a nono' among other things...however most so called 'christians' would be priests if they had any common sense for fear of doing such awful things in their life, and for fear of hell. Nonetheless...If you are a christian an support Gay marriage, (which is defined as union between man an woman under God) Then...your not christian, your something else?
This seems like im being cruel or nazi'ish or whatever, im not. I'm merely picking out plot holes in christian dogma, so chill. I don't beleive in Gay marriage because...Hmm, i like to make things difficult for people
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Original post: BrokenIris
I firmly believe in the right for gay couples to get married is they choose to do so. I have 2 gay friends from Mass. here is USA. They have been together longer than I have been with anyone....15 years! It was sickening when Joe got sick and Mikey called me crying because they would not let him go the the ICU to see him after surgery. Joe has a great job with wonderful benefits, but cannot put Mikey on his family plan, but others are allowed to put stepchildren on it? When I think of how Sidhe and Storym have been treated it breaks my heart. I have known them for years, heard their struggles and joys both in raising their children, but not even the neighbors will consider them a "family"....I think that is ridiculous.
Love is not caged and labeled. It is not confined to certain members of society. And all rights given to those who are lucky enough to find real love...should be extended to everyone....every HUMAN.....every PERSON....on this Earth. A woman cannot go sit in a hospital and hold the hand and comfort her lifelong love during the pain of dying......simply because that love happens to be another woman? If not marriage....then I agree with Sidhe....call it what you want....but give them the rights as human beings they deserve.
We give men praise, awards, honors, recognition for going to war and killing another man.....but we condemn him for loving one?
I am not taking away the respect due to the soldiers who have fought. I am merely making a point of how conflicting of a message society gives sometimes.
What I have said is my opinion and I don't wish or desire to offend anyone with it. I respect that others may and do not feel and think as I do. I am glad we are all free to voice in words how we feel. On this topic....this post is some of how "I" feel about it.
With respect
Iris
I firmly believe in the right for gay couples to get married is they choose to do so. I have 2 gay friends from Mass. here is USA. They have been together longer than I have been with anyone....15 years! It was sickening when Joe got sick and Mikey called me crying because they would not let him go the the ICU to see him after surgery. Joe has a great job with wonderful benefits, but cannot put Mikey on his family plan, but others are allowed to put stepchildren on it? When I think of how Sidhe and Storym have been treated it breaks my heart. I have known them for years, heard their struggles and joys both in raising their children, but not even the neighbors will consider them a "family"....I think that is ridiculous.
Love is not caged and labeled. It is not confined to certain members of society. And all rights given to those who are lucky enough to find real love...should be extended to everyone....every HUMAN.....every PERSON....on this Earth. A woman cannot go sit in a hospital and hold the hand and comfort her lifelong love during the pain of dying......simply because that love happens to be another woman? If not marriage....then I agree with Sidhe....call it what you want....but give them the rights as human beings they deserve.
We give men praise, awards, honors, recognition for going to war and killing another man.....but we condemn him for loving one?
I am not taking away the respect due to the soldiers who have fought. I am merely making a point of how conflicting of a message society gives sometimes.
What I have said is my opinion and I don't wish or desire to offend anyone with it. I respect that others may and do not feel and think as I do. I am glad we are all free to voice in words how we feel. On this topic....this post is some of how "I" feel about it.
With respect
Iris
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Original post: Jade_Phoenix
Wow, fun fun.
Hey, here's a link to what I've been discussing with people in the Soul Calibur forums. http://www.soulcalibur.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25712 It started off with the initiation of the new Pope and as I, the general newsbringer of the forum, have posted a thread about it, being a NEUTRAL person. Most of the arguments start on page two; however, homosexuality is like on pages two and three. Abortion is discussed mainly--last few pages.
Keep in mind that some of these people are Republican (omg, the worst insult e-var) and don't share the same views that we do. PLEASE, for the love of whatever you hold holy, do NOT go there and post "you retards! blah blah freedom of whatever, blah blah knights who say NI" or some such thing telling them they are wrong. You will SO get me banned and that's my second favvie forum (this one being the first).
Also, some things people say may piss you (as a whole) off, particularly me (same moniker). I am not one for political correctness, but as of last month, I was not really paying attention to what I was saying. If I said anything in there to piss people off, my bad, political correctness does not exist, sorry, but I am not changing my statements or viewpoints.
My viewpoint? Homosexuality is NOT my business, as I am straight as a ruler. I don't care provided that it's CONSENSUAL.
Wow, fun fun.
Hey, here's a link to what I've been discussing with people in the Soul Calibur forums. http://www.soulcalibur.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25712 It started off with the initiation of the new Pope and as I, the general newsbringer of the forum, have posted a thread about it, being a NEUTRAL person. Most of the arguments start on page two; however, homosexuality is like on pages two and three. Abortion is discussed mainly--last few pages.
Keep in mind that some of these people are Republican (omg, the worst insult e-var) and don't share the same views that we do. PLEASE, for the love of whatever you hold holy, do NOT go there and post "you retards! blah blah freedom of whatever, blah blah knights who say NI" or some such thing telling them they are wrong. You will SO get me banned and that's my second favvie forum (this one being the first).
Also, some things people say may piss you (as a whole) off, particularly me (same moniker). I am not one for political correctness, but as of last month, I was not really paying attention to what I was saying. If I said anything in there to piss people off, my bad, political correctness does not exist, sorry, but I am not changing my statements or viewpoints.
My viewpoint? Homosexuality is NOT my business, as I am straight as a ruler. I don't care provided that it's CONSENSUAL.
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Original post: Uncle Fritz
True_Undead, I feel for you. I grew up in W. Montana, and the Jesus freaks were unbearable. Luckily, I was Catholic (at the time), and along with the Mormons in our town, we pretty much balanced out the Holy Rollers. I can remember a few times that some fundie would try to slip into full-on preacher mode. I wouldn't have any of it. It is easier to do if your fellows don't know that you aren't some flavor of Xtian. They didn't know that I was gay, or that I was beginning to hear Heimdall's horn in the distance! (I got sent home from school because I wore a t-shirt that had the word "Hell" on it! My mom was livid!)
Lord Ruthven, in rural parts of the US, church & state are barely separate. At my HS graduation, the local Assembly of God minister (a bible thumpin' fire & brimstone creep) gave a benediction prayer. So during the graduation speech I gave, I pretended to be a fundie preacher - "You are saved thru the healing power of graduation!" The preacher wouldn't shake my hand afterwards, but my family & friends thought it was hysterical.
If they start to quote from the Old Testament (particularily Leviticus) ask them if they keep a kosher kitchen. Ask them if they wear cotton/polyester blends (something that if they shop at WalMart, and you know that they do, is unavoidable). Ask them if they eat shellfish. All of these are verbotten in the OT. Tell them that Paul in his letter to the Romans, chapter 10 claims that Xtians don't have to follow the old Jewish laws (because the Christ established a "new covenant" between man & JHVH). That seems to get them everytime. Unless they have been prepared for that, it usually flusters them.
As I told a Xtian friend (one who didn't have a problem with having sex outside of a relationship, but she was str8 so that made it okay, apparently)when she got all conservative Xtian all of a sudden over the gay marriage thing, I don't care if the various flavors of xtianity ever approve of my relationships. But the states & the feds need to either give me the same advantages that other people have or they need to get out of the marriage business all together. I am a citizen. I pay taxes. I should have all of the benefits (and drawbacks) that every other citizen has. No more and no less. I'm not actually a big fan of marriage, but I don't like the fact that it is denied to me.
Further, while Paul is not pro-gay (or pro-anything apparently), the Christ never said anything one way or the other about gays or homosexuality. Xtians need to worry less about gay marriage, and more about the stuff the Christ was saying about "love one another" or "turn the other cheek" (LOL, as if) or turning the moneychangers out of the temple (I'm talking to you, Jerry Falwell!).
True_Undead, I feel for you. I grew up in W. Montana, and the Jesus freaks were unbearable. Luckily, I was Catholic (at the time), and along with the Mormons in our town, we pretty much balanced out the Holy Rollers. I can remember a few times that some fundie would try to slip into full-on preacher mode. I wouldn't have any of it. It is easier to do if your fellows don't know that you aren't some flavor of Xtian. They didn't know that I was gay, or that I was beginning to hear Heimdall's horn in the distance! (I got sent home from school because I wore a t-shirt that had the word "Hell" on it! My mom was livid!)
Lord Ruthven, in rural parts of the US, church & state are barely separate. At my HS graduation, the local Assembly of God minister (a bible thumpin' fire & brimstone creep) gave a benediction prayer. So during the graduation speech I gave, I pretended to be a fundie preacher - "You are saved thru the healing power of graduation!" The preacher wouldn't shake my hand afterwards, but my family & friends thought it was hysterical.
If they start to quote from the Old Testament (particularily Leviticus) ask them if they keep a kosher kitchen. Ask them if they wear cotton/polyester blends (something that if they shop at WalMart, and you know that they do, is unavoidable). Ask them if they eat shellfish. All of these are verbotten in the OT. Tell them that Paul in his letter to the Romans, chapter 10 claims that Xtians don't have to follow the old Jewish laws (because the Christ established a "new covenant" between man & JHVH). That seems to get them everytime. Unless they have been prepared for that, it usually flusters them.
As I told a Xtian friend (one who didn't have a problem with having sex outside of a relationship, but she was str8 so that made it okay, apparently)when she got all conservative Xtian all of a sudden over the gay marriage thing, I don't care if the various flavors of xtianity ever approve of my relationships. But the states & the feds need to either give me the same advantages that other people have or they need to get out of the marriage business all together. I am a citizen. I pay taxes. I should have all of the benefits (and drawbacks) that every other citizen has. No more and no less. I'm not actually a big fan of marriage, but I don't like the fact that it is denied to me.
Further, while Paul is not pro-gay (or pro-anything apparently), the Christ never said anything one way or the other about gays or homosexuality. Xtians need to worry less about gay marriage, and more about the stuff the Christ was saying about "love one another" or "turn the other cheek" (LOL, as if) or turning the moneychangers out of the temple (I'm talking to you, Jerry Falwell!).
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gay marriage
Original post: Baphmetis
The ironic thing about this is, that the early Church in Europe, hundreds ofyears ago, did actually marry men together. My memory on this is a bit hazy, I cannot remember where I saw this site the country it referred to. It was either England, Ireland or across Europe. But I'll search for the information so you can take it to school and shove it in teachers face.
EDIT: Found something. It's not much, but it'll do for now until I find something else: http://www.libchrist.com/other/homosexual/gaymarriagerite.html
The ironic thing about this is, that the early Church in Europe, hundreds ofyears ago, did actually marry men together. My memory on this is a bit hazy, I cannot remember where I saw this site the country it referred to. It was either England, Ireland or across Europe. But I'll search for the information so you can take it to school and shove it in teachers face.
EDIT: Found something. It's not much, but it'll do for now until I find something else: http://www.libchrist.com/other/homosexual/gaymarriagerite.html
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gay marriage
Original post: SethianNate
I have never stood for the pledge, national anthem, bowed my head in prayer, and et cetera in my life. Though I've had people TRY to beat the hell out of me for it and I've been punished several times and yelled at.
Anyway, get used to those comments. I hear them all the time and I think they make a good comedy, and I'm a homosexual. I just sit back and laugh, considering their god is a child molester, a child killer, and a hypocritical asshole.
Anyway, I'm surrounded by homophobic conservatives and Christians, in a school that gets away with discrimination and punishing people for being a homosexual and wearing anything that doesn't have Jesus or a Christian cross on it.
But it doesn't matter, I'm sexy as hell and built like a rock, 100% more masculine than any heterosexual. As for me being a twisted sinner as they'd call me, I'll drink to that. Calling me a "Devil-worshipper", I'll drink to that to. Although I do believe in the deity Set (Sutekh, Seth, Typon, Loki, Tezcatlipoca, Baal), and many other deities like Horus, Osiris, and on and on forever, I do not worship any. I do follow Set as my guidance to divinity however. And since he is the God Christianity perversed into Satan, via Set-Hen, I'll let them call me a "Devil-worshipper", agreeing with them makes them shut their mouths after all.
By the way, they've never been able to beat my ass because I'm trained in martial arts. Instead I've beat the Hell out of about thirty Christians in self-defense.
I have never stood for the pledge, national anthem, bowed my head in prayer, and et cetera in my life. Though I've had people TRY to beat the hell out of me for it and I've been punished several times and yelled at.
Anyway, get used to those comments. I hear them all the time and I think they make a good comedy, and I'm a homosexual. I just sit back and laugh, considering their god is a child molester, a child killer, and a hypocritical asshole.
Anyway, I'm surrounded by homophobic conservatives and Christians, in a school that gets away with discrimination and punishing people for being a homosexual and wearing anything that doesn't have Jesus or a Christian cross on it.
But it doesn't matter, I'm sexy as hell and built like a rock, 100% more masculine than any heterosexual. As for me being a twisted sinner as they'd call me, I'll drink to that. Calling me a "Devil-worshipper", I'll drink to that to. Although I do believe in the deity Set (Sutekh, Seth, Typon, Loki, Tezcatlipoca, Baal), and many other deities like Horus, Osiris, and on and on forever, I do not worship any. I do follow Set as my guidance to divinity however. And since he is the God Christianity perversed into Satan, via Set-Hen, I'll let them call me a "Devil-worshipper", agreeing with them makes them shut their mouths after all.
By the way, they've never been able to beat my ass because I'm trained in martial arts. Instead I've beat the Hell out of about thirty Christians in self-defense.
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gay marriage
Original post: lord_dragool
just as a point ive stayed outta this topic as its very close to home for me and i wouldnt like to have to give myself a warning...
but i will say please keep the christian bashing outta these forums as we do have a lot of christians some of whom i call freinds.
and the rules state respect and generalising is really bad as not all christians are hypocrites or assholes
if i see this happening anymore i will be forced to issue official warnings.
thanks
LD
just as a point ive stayed outta this topic as its very close to home for me and i wouldnt like to have to give myself a warning...
but i will say please keep the christian bashing outta these forums as we do have a lot of christians some of whom i call freinds.
and the rules state respect and generalising is really bad as not all christians are hypocrites or assholes
if i see this happening anymore i will be forced to issue official warnings.
thanks
LD
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gay marriage
Original post: OndeAander
The legal issue with homosexual marriage doesn't really hit a wall when it comes to equality or personal freedoms. It is a monetary issue primarily; Insurance policies, inheritance etc. Allowing any two people at all enter such a legal contract and to receive mutual monetary benefits puts out some juicy bait and opens a wide door for abuse. Not to say that there isn't a wide abuse of marriage by heterosexuals as well. But that's a bigger problem across the board.. And to many married people who believe in the original, generally christian definition of marriage, it's a perversion of something they hold sacred, "the unity between one man and one woman"... Personally, it doesn't make a difference to me. Though I believe there's a certain amount of sacrifice one must take upon himself when entering an "alternative lifestyle" as many know simply from being nonchristian. Contrary to what you may be told, the world isn't fair. There is honour in trying to change things, but at the core you have to be willing to accept the consequences of what you stand for (herein lies the question, what is choice?). Relying on your government to do the work for you "in the name of freedom" seems somehow so ironic.. You can make a vow just as meaningful as that of a legal marriage without it being acknowledged by the government; you can follow a religion without it being acknowledged by your government. See why I say it comes down to money?
The legal issue with homosexual marriage doesn't really hit a wall when it comes to equality or personal freedoms. It is a monetary issue primarily; Insurance policies, inheritance etc. Allowing any two people at all enter such a legal contract and to receive mutual monetary benefits puts out some juicy bait and opens a wide door for abuse. Not to say that there isn't a wide abuse of marriage by heterosexuals as well. But that's a bigger problem across the board.. And to many married people who believe in the original, generally christian definition of marriage, it's a perversion of something they hold sacred, "the unity between one man and one woman"... Personally, it doesn't make a difference to me. Though I believe there's a certain amount of sacrifice one must take upon himself when entering an "alternative lifestyle" as many know simply from being nonchristian. Contrary to what you may be told, the world isn't fair. There is honour in trying to change things, but at the core you have to be willing to accept the consequences of what you stand for (herein lies the question, what is choice?). Relying on your government to do the work for you "in the name of freedom" seems somehow so ironic.. You can make a vow just as meaningful as that of a legal marriage without it being acknowledged by the government; you can follow a religion without it being acknowledged by your government. See why I say it comes down to money?
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gay marriage
Original post: SethianNate
Don't look at me. I didn't bash Christians in no way. Unless your thinking they are the person named "God".
Don't look at me. I didn't bash Christians in no way. Unless your thinking they are the person named "God".
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gay marriage
Original post: True_Undead
this is a little off topic but your signature in really big
this is a little off topic but your signature in really big
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gay marriage
Original post: whimsy
so i'd been given the task of researching the Catholic viewpoint on same-sex marriages, and also the Church's viewpoint on homosexual children. it's a project for a Catholic College. therefore, that said, the following does not in any way, shape, or form express my own views on the issues. it wouldn't be as long, for one thing.
. but just so's we're all clear on just what the Catholic Church is opposing and why, FROM A CATHOLIC VIEWPOINT....i do have the sources somewheres if you want em.
The Catholic Church is opposed to equating same-sex unions to marriage. The church does not oppose the unions out of discrimination, but by the definition of marriage, alone. Marriage was not formed by the church nor by civil law, but by God, and is established in Godâ??s plan of Creation. The church views marriage as a union of man and woman, coming together in the sacrament of marriage to become one. The man and woman, as equals, are joined together in holy matrimony. By giving themselves completely to one another, in perfect love and perfect trust, through sex, a married couple participates and cooperates with Godâ??s plan, and creates children. A same-sex couple cannot identify with all the dynamics of marriage, as a same-sex couple is incapable of producing children. Therefore, a same-sex couple cannot be joined in any union equal to marriage.
Marriage is a social institution, recognized in civil laws, with benefits for family living. The family is the fundamental component of society. Marriage, as the union of a man and woman, provides a balanced model for family living, highlighting the differences between a man and woman, and how those differences compliment each other. The Catholic Church believes that establishing same-sex unions as marriages works against the common good. Elevating same-sex unions to the status of marriage publicly denounces the definition of marriage. To make same-sex unions equal to marriage is to raise civil law above God.
Marriage is not a lifestyle choice. Marriage takes the private lives of a man and woman and joins them, publicly, for the societal good. The conjugal bond provides stability for the propagation of children. It raises up the love between a man and a woman and sanctifies that love with Godâ??s love, as the natural order of living things, as God intended. Same-sex relationships are condemned in Scripture. When a homosexual relationship is kept behind closed doors, a Christian is not faced with the moral dilemma of rebuking that "evil", and being tolerant and forgiving of a fellow human - all at the same time. By establishing same-sex unions as legally binding marital institutions, that moral dilemma is forced upon the Christian public. It is a conflicting, confusing situation for a child raised in a Christian faith. Legal same-sex unions would blur the moral structures outlined in the Catholic faith, being at odds with reality.
When anything has been granted legal approval, it becomes acceptable. If same-sex unions should become legally acceptable by society, Church and state will once again be opposed, causing disorder in society. Our freedoms allow us to live as we choose to live, by whatever choices we make that are best for us, but our freedoms also allow us to make our world, our living space, what we want it to be. Elevating same-sex unions to the level of legally binding marriage deprecates the sanctity of marriage, not only by definition, but by living. It would be akin to society publicly thumbing its nose at the Church.
so i'd been given the task of researching the Catholic viewpoint on same-sex marriages, and also the Church's viewpoint on homosexual children. it's a project for a Catholic College. therefore, that said, the following does not in any way, shape, or form express my own views on the issues. it wouldn't be as long, for one thing.
. but just so's we're all clear on just what the Catholic Church is opposing and why, FROM A CATHOLIC VIEWPOINT....i do have the sources somewheres if you want em. The Catholic Church is opposed to equating same-sex unions to marriage. The church does not oppose the unions out of discrimination, but by the definition of marriage, alone. Marriage was not formed by the church nor by civil law, but by God, and is established in Godâ??s plan of Creation. The church views marriage as a union of man and woman, coming together in the sacrament of marriage to become one. The man and woman, as equals, are joined together in holy matrimony. By giving themselves completely to one another, in perfect love and perfect trust, through sex, a married couple participates and cooperates with Godâ??s plan, and creates children. A same-sex couple cannot identify with all the dynamics of marriage, as a same-sex couple is incapable of producing children. Therefore, a same-sex couple cannot be joined in any union equal to marriage.
Marriage is a social institution, recognized in civil laws, with benefits for family living. The family is the fundamental component of society. Marriage, as the union of a man and woman, provides a balanced model for family living, highlighting the differences between a man and woman, and how those differences compliment each other. The Catholic Church believes that establishing same-sex unions as marriages works against the common good. Elevating same-sex unions to the status of marriage publicly denounces the definition of marriage. To make same-sex unions equal to marriage is to raise civil law above God.
Marriage is not a lifestyle choice. Marriage takes the private lives of a man and woman and joins them, publicly, for the societal good. The conjugal bond provides stability for the propagation of children. It raises up the love between a man and a woman and sanctifies that love with Godâ??s love, as the natural order of living things, as God intended. Same-sex relationships are condemned in Scripture. When a homosexual relationship is kept behind closed doors, a Christian is not faced with the moral dilemma of rebuking that "evil", and being tolerant and forgiving of a fellow human - all at the same time. By establishing same-sex unions as legally binding marital institutions, that moral dilemma is forced upon the Christian public. It is a conflicting, confusing situation for a child raised in a Christian faith. Legal same-sex unions would blur the moral structures outlined in the Catholic faith, being at odds with reality.
When anything has been granted legal approval, it becomes acceptable. If same-sex unions should become legally acceptable by society, Church and state will once again be opposed, causing disorder in society. Our freedoms allow us to live as we choose to live, by whatever choices we make that are best for us, but our freedoms also allow us to make our world, our living space, what we want it to be. Elevating same-sex unions to the level of legally binding marriage deprecates the sanctity of marriage, not only by definition, but by living. It would be akin to society publicly thumbing its nose at the Church.
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gay marriage
Original post: whimsy
that being said, the Church has also released it's ...um, advice?...on how to handle when your child is showing homosexual affinities or comes out to you. it is for the christian family raising a catholic child. consider this a summary. like the above, it neither expresses mine own views, nor would mine take as long to express. enjoy.
btw, my current signature sums up the church's answer to homosexual love. i giggled for about a day over it.
The Catholic Church has been hard pressed to address the issue of adolescent homosexuality, and has released a message for Catholic parents learning how to handle the discovery of homosexuality in their children. These parents are often torn between loving their child, and not wanting to support behaviors unsanctioned by the Church. The message calls for acceptance and human love.
The Church identifies with the feelings parents may have as they endeavor to understand and come to terms with the possibility of a homosexual child. Parents may feel angry for not recognizing signs of homosexuality in their child. They may feel angry at others for discriminating against the child; or feel angry at those who would support a homosexual lifestyle. Some parents may even be angry with God for the predicament.
Parents may also fear for their childâ??s welfare. Homosexuals are easy targets for prejudice and discrimination. Sexually transmitted diseases, like HIV/AIDS, are also a real concern. Some children get depressed and feel isolated in some situations, and may attempt suicide.
It is natural for parents to feel some sort of loss, realizing that they may never have grandchildren. It is also natural for parents to feel some degree of guilt or shame, wondering if there was some way the child could have been steered away from a homosexual lifestyle. Parents must realize that they are responsible for only themselves, as individuals, as are their children.
The Church counsels clear channels of communication. Parents should listen to the child, but also share their feelings openly and honestly. The child is still the same person, regardless of sexual orientation. Open communication will allow the family as a unit to become more candid, respectful and compassionate . It may also be beneficial to seek professional counseling from one who has an â??appreciation of religious values and who understands the complex nature of sexuality.â?Â
that being said, the Church has also released it's ...um, advice?...on how to handle when your child is showing homosexual affinities or comes out to you. it is for the christian family raising a catholic child. consider this a summary. like the above, it neither expresses mine own views, nor would mine take as long to express. enjoy.
btw, my current signature sums up the church's answer to homosexual love. i giggled for about a day over it.
The Catholic Church has been hard pressed to address the issue of adolescent homosexuality, and has released a message for Catholic parents learning how to handle the discovery of homosexuality in their children. These parents are often torn between loving their child, and not wanting to support behaviors unsanctioned by the Church. The message calls for acceptance and human love.
The Church identifies with the feelings parents may have as they endeavor to understand and come to terms with the possibility of a homosexual child. Parents may feel angry for not recognizing signs of homosexuality in their child. They may feel angry at others for discriminating against the child; or feel angry at those who would support a homosexual lifestyle. Some parents may even be angry with God for the predicament.
Parents may also fear for their childâ??s welfare. Homosexuals are easy targets for prejudice and discrimination. Sexually transmitted diseases, like HIV/AIDS, are also a real concern. Some children get depressed and feel isolated in some situations, and may attempt suicide.
It is natural for parents to feel some sort of loss, realizing that they may never have grandchildren. It is also natural for parents to feel some degree of guilt or shame, wondering if there was some way the child could have been steered away from a homosexual lifestyle. Parents must realize that they are responsible for only themselves, as individuals, as are their children.
The Church counsels clear channels of communication. Parents should listen to the child, but also share their feelings openly and honestly. The child is still the same person, regardless of sexual orientation. Open communication will allow the family as a unit to become more candid, respectful and compassionate . It may also be beneficial to seek professional counseling from one who has an â??appreciation of religious values and who understands the complex nature of sexuality.â?Â
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Original post: durki
Fulfil all your desires & fantasies and whims & fancies while on earth otherwise they will get carried over, as tendecies, to astral spheres after your death. Confess your perversion and pray for all perverts.
Fulfil all your desires & fantasies and whims & fancies while on earth otherwise they will get carried over, as tendecies, to astral spheres after your death. Confess your perversion and pray for all perverts.
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Original post: WindigoXXVIII
gay marriages here in canada allows the government to cash in on more income tax. thats a lot of money they would miss out on otherwise. so its just not really all about equal rights, its profitable equal rights
gay marriages here in canada allows the government to cash in on more income tax. thats a lot of money they would miss out on otherwise. so its just not really all about equal rights, its profitable equal rights