Original post: Albino Crow
This is inspired by the discussion going on in another thread which can be found here: Before I knew about magick... I didn't want to bring this point up for it would have gone drastically off topic, so I decided to make it here. I was at odds with myself during the decision process with where to place this as you very well may guess. Creative Spirituality would adhere to the artistic nature of occultism, and Experimental Magick, Science and Philosophy would adhere to it's scientific nature. If this would work out better in another forum, by all means please act accordingly.
So, which is it? Can your occult endeavors and practices be viewed under a scientific law, or an artistic expression? Ultimately practices and doctrines differ, so answers will primarily be subjective. I'm not a fan of duality, and I apologize for bringing another one to your screen, but I just couldn't pass this up. Many occultists were also artists in their trades, but some would say that with the exact nature of some magickal workings and processes it could be considered a science. Is it both? Is it the all-purpose shedding of the skin chameleon challenging our every whim in the desert of subjective philosophy?
Occultism: A Science or an Art?
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Occultism: A Science or an Art?
Original post: visceral/spagyrical
Well, alchemy is very artistic for me since I write, but I also have a very complex cognitive and semiotic understanding of what occurs mentally and physically while I write, so i guess you could say that my art is heavily based on science. I also spend a lot of time using alchemy to figure out how my mind works and how language (particularly analogy) works. My research in those areas revolves around some form of scientific method.
v/s
Well, alchemy is very artistic for me since I write, but I also have a very complex cognitive and semiotic understanding of what occurs mentally and physically while I write, so i guess you could say that my art is heavily based on science. I also spend a lot of time using alchemy to figure out how my mind works and how language (particularly analogy) works. My research in those areas revolves around some form of scientific method.
v/s
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Occultism: A Science or an Art?
Original post: Caradoc
Magick is the science and art...
Works for me. I don't see how magick could be one without the other.
Magic, on the other hand, is art. That's where it falls apart
Magick is the science and art...
Works for me. I don't see how magick could be one without the other.
Magic, on the other hand, is art. That's where it falls apart
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Occultism: A Science or an Art?
Original post: Spaces
Endeavors are many and they like most efforts when it comes to their definition are going to be examined for their semantic character. Of course, this would not be the case for those that see their particular endeavor as that of a 'dead leaf in the wind'. A proposition a tad on the abandonment side but to some as legitimate as any other.
The 'viewing' becomes complicated for the simple reason that the endeavor, or more accurately the one engaging the endeavor is simultaneously the prima materia endeavor itself and also an unknown at its core. That which has emerged from the hidden questions the hidden. A room full of mirrors? A mirror full of rooms.
Ultimately, practices and doctrines won't matter.
Spaces
Endeavors are many and they like most efforts when it comes to their definition are going to be examined for their semantic character. Of course, this would not be the case for those that see their particular endeavor as that of a 'dead leaf in the wind'. A proposition a tad on the abandonment side but to some as legitimate as any other.
The 'viewing' becomes complicated for the simple reason that the endeavor, or more accurately the one engaging the endeavor is simultaneously the prima materia endeavor itself and also an unknown at its core. That which has emerged from the hidden questions the hidden. A room full of mirrors? A mirror full of rooms.
Ultimately, practices and doctrines won't matter.
Spaces
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Occultism: A Science or an Art?
Original post: Ludi
For occultism to be a science (in the modern sense of the word) it would have to adhere to the scientific method and results would have to be reproducible by others. As far as I can tell from discussing it with ocultists, this is not the case.
For occultism to be a science (in the modern sense of the word) it would have to adhere to the scientific method and results would have to be reproducible by others. As far as I can tell from discussing it with ocultists, this is not the case.
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Occultism: A Science or an Art?
Original post: cpmg_101
Neither
cpmg_101
Neither
cpmg_101
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Occultism: A Science or an Art?
Original post: Albino Crow
I've come to see it under the light of being the science of art or the art of science, but that sounds too cheesy for my tastes. In short, I will say it's both through a multi-dimensional scope, for me at least. I'm very much an artist yet I have an appreciation and interest for science which reflects on my studies and endeavors.
I've come to see it under the light of being the science of art or the art of science, but that sounds too cheesy for my tastes. In short, I will say it's both through a multi-dimensional scope, for me at least. I'm very much an artist yet I have an appreciation and interest for science which reflects on my studies and endeavors.
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Occultism: A Science or an Art?
Original post: glyph
In SSOTBME the author suggests that it is a mistake to consider one of the methods of looking at the world as containing any of the others..
he suggests that the four modes of Art, Science, Religion, Magick, while having responses and relationships to each other, are four directions as on a compass
In SSOTBME the author suggests that it is a mistake to consider one of the methods of looking at the world as containing any of the others..
he suggests that the four modes of Art, Science, Religion, Magick, while having responses and relationships to each other, are four directions as on a compass
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Occultism: A Science or an Art?
Original post: Albino Crow
[QUOTE=glyph]In SSOTBME the author suggests that it is a mistake to consider one of the methods of looking at the world as containing any of the others..
he suggests that the four modes of Art, Science, Religion, Magick, while having responses and relationships to each other, are four directions as on a compass[/QUOTE]
That's a pretty monist way of looking at it, but true in it's own right. There's no doubting their quarters of distinction, but a quarter is part of a whole. The more I think about it, and what occultism encircles being art, science, religion, magick, philosophy, sometimes even technology, it's just another school of thought, a way of life. .. Having said that, I think I just reconciled this topic. Geeze, talk about full circle.
[QUOTE=glyph]In SSOTBME the author suggests that it is a mistake to consider one of the methods of looking at the world as containing any of the others..
he suggests that the four modes of Art, Science, Religion, Magick, while having responses and relationships to each other, are four directions as on a compass[/QUOTE]
That's a pretty monist way of looking at it, but true in it's own right. There's no doubting their quarters of distinction, but a quarter is part of a whole. The more I think about it, and what occultism encircles being art, science, religion, magick, philosophy, sometimes even technology, it's just another school of thought, a way of life. .. Having said that, I think I just reconciled this topic. Geeze, talk about full circle.
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Occultism: A Science or an Art?
Original post: SatsUrn
[QUOTE=Albino Crow]This is inspired by the discussion going on in another thread which can be found here: Before I knew about magick... I didn't want to bring this point up for it would have gone drastically off topic, so I decided to make it here. I was at odds with myself during the decision process with where to place this as you very well may guess. Creative Spirituality would adhere to the artistic nature of occultism, and Experimental Magick, Science and Philosophy would adhere to it's scientific nature. If this would work out better in another forum, by all means please act accordingly.
So, which is it? Can your occult endeavors and practices be viewed under a scientific law, or an artistic expression? Ultimately practices and doctrines differ, so answers will primarily be subjective. I'm not a fan of duality, and I apologize for bringing another one to your screen, but I just couldn't pass this up. Many occultists were also artists in their trades, but some would say that with the exact nature of some magickal workings and processes it could be considered a science. Is it both? Is it the all-purpose shedding of the skin chameleon challenging our every whim in the desert of subjective philosophy?
[/QUOTE]
I see no conflict here, my occult practices are both Scientific and Artful. The originals of Magick are Enki/Ea and Ninhurzag/H'Athor whom were both Scientists. In fact the word Sci-Ence comes from 23rd Trident = Sci/psi and of Fact = Ence/Enki.
[QUOTE=Albino Crow]This is inspired by the discussion going on in another thread which can be found here: Before I knew about magick... I didn't want to bring this point up for it would have gone drastically off topic, so I decided to make it here. I was at odds with myself during the decision process with where to place this as you very well may guess. Creative Spirituality would adhere to the artistic nature of occultism, and Experimental Magick, Science and Philosophy would adhere to it's scientific nature. If this would work out better in another forum, by all means please act accordingly.
So, which is it? Can your occult endeavors and practices be viewed under a scientific law, or an artistic expression? Ultimately practices and doctrines differ, so answers will primarily be subjective. I'm not a fan of duality, and I apologize for bringing another one to your screen, but I just couldn't pass this up. Many occultists were also artists in their trades, but some would say that with the exact nature of some magickal workings and processes it could be considered a science. Is it both? Is it the all-purpose shedding of the skin chameleon challenging our every whim in the desert of subjective philosophy?
[/QUOTE]
I see no conflict here, my occult practices are both Scientific and Artful. The originals of Magick are Enki/Ea and Ninhurzag/H'Athor whom were both Scientists. In fact the word Sci-Ence comes from 23rd Trident = Sci/psi and of Fact = Ence/Enki.
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Occultism: A Science or an Art?
Original post: visceral/spagyrical
If anyone's wondering where the latter half of this thread went, it's in the archives. I did this because it was nothing more than an argument about the origins of the word "science." The only reason I kept SatsUrn's post is because of the first sentence: "...both Scientific and Artful."
If you want to discuss the origins of the word science start a new thread.
If you have a problem with this decision, send me a PM.
If you want to post one-liners, go somewhere else.
v/s
If anyone's wondering where the latter half of this thread went, it's in the archives. I did this because it was nothing more than an argument about the origins of the word "science." The only reason I kept SatsUrn's post is because of the first sentence: "...both Scientific and Artful."
If you want to discuss the origins of the word science start a new thread.
If you have a problem with this decision, send me a PM.
If you want to post one-liners, go somewhere else.
v/s
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Occultism: A Science or an Art?
Original post: Caradoc
[QUOTE=visceral/spagyrical]If you want to discuss the origins of the word science start a new thread. [/QUOTE]
Oops... sorry v/s I must have been posting as you were.
Ho-hum... can I ask glyph what SSOTBME is?
[QUOTE=visceral/spagyrical]If you want to discuss the origins of the word science start a new thread. [/QUOTE]
Oops... sorry v/s I must have been posting as you were.
Ho-hum... can I ask glyph what SSOTBME is?
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Occultism: A Science or an Art?
Original post: KCh
The method of science, the aim of religion.
The method of science, the aim of religion.
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Occultism: A Science or an Art?
Original post: cpmg_101
Does the occult have to be described as an art or science?
cpmg_101
Does the occult have to be described as an art or science?
cpmg_101
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Occultism: A Science or an Art?
Original post: glyph
Caradoc: Sex Secrets of the Black Magicians Exposed - by an anonymous author originally - but Ramsey Dukes is he - and a fine and jolly philosophical discussion it is
Caradoc: Sex Secrets of the Black Magicians Exposed - by an anonymous author originally - but Ramsey Dukes is he - and a fine and jolly philosophical discussion it is