Enochian Uses?

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Original post: ArsmagnA

Hello All, pardon my intrusion but I have a simple question: is Enochian magick generally used for more mundane things like money, attraction, etc.? I mean, since it's so powerful can it be used in more folky ways?

A few years ago I did a little working, and it worked perfectly for 3 days, then the spell broke and the building where all the people involved were employed burned down. (Though I think it was an insurance job). I haven't done the slightest bit of magick since, largely because i feel unprepared, but mostly because it isn't clear to me what the gains are with Enochian.

The reason I'm interested is when i was a teen, a had an incredible dream and was "given" a word. Years later I found that word in Enochian. So I'm keenly interested in anyones thoughts.

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Original post: Solerus Silver

hmm, well enochian is known to be powerfull yes, but do tell us what was the *spell*, hmm?

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Original post: thief_and_a_liar

Angels, I do not trust them.

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Original post: ArsmagnA

[QUOTE=Solerus Silver;293295]hmm, well enochian is known to be powerfull yes, but do tell us what was the *spell*, hmm?[/QUOTE]

Well, without being confessional, I just wanted a person to be honest with theirself and others. Is it common to use Enochian in that context? It worked great, but I mischieviously broke a rule...i think I wanted to test it. The result was the return to delusion and of course, a fire.

What about "attacking"? Or is that strictly considered black?

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Original post: ArsmagnA

[QUOTE=thief_and_a_liar;293309]Angels, I do not trust them.[/QUOTE]

Who do you trust?

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Original post: Solerus Silver

Well, without being confessional, I just wanted a person to be honest with theirself and others. Is it common to use Enochian in that context? It worked great, but I mischieviously broke a rule...i think I wanted to test it. The result was the return to delusion and of course, a fire.

What about "attacking"? Or is that strictly considered black?

well you have first to be honest with your self are you asking us to teach you to attack with enochian magic?

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Original post: ArsmagnA

[QUOTE=Solerus Silver;293318]well you have first to be honest with your self are you asking us to teach you to attack with enochian magic?[/QUOTE]

You teach me? No such thing was said. I was merely asking, do people commonly suffer the ethics of pre-emptive attack and and risk blowback or karmic retribution when working with the Angles?

Cos I mean, I've seen the things, sometimes they seen me, but I don't know if Enochian is that type of system where you tell them to go do something that is beyond good and evil. You know like kill someone, or possess them.

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Original post: Solerus Silver

You teach me? No such thing was said. I was merely asking, do people commonly suffer the ethics of pre-emptive attack and and risk blowback or karmic retribution when working with the Angles?

Cos I mean, I've seen the things, sometimes they seen me, but I don't know if Enochian is that type of system where you tell them to go do something that is beyond good and evil. You know like kill someone, or possess them.

they can if it is right, angles are very selective, yes thats true and yes sometimes people suffer from their attacks probaply more than the victim anyway, and frankly not much are beyond good and evil, especially in such mundane things like killing,

and yes smetimes they can possess people and even the magician, still you must always be within the natural balance if you do something bad, you will have to fight to keep it, if it is good, the force current will keep itself in balance.

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Original post: paaa

You could use Enochian magic for just about anything. For the type of low-level magic you're referring to, I would probably use the watchtowers to get the best results.

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Original post: Cyrix_777

Paaa I would have to disagree. The enochian angels have there own agenda's and although a seriously powerful system they are not errand boys like the Goetia
And I will quote my Enochian Teacher Fr Neshamah ..

[INDENT]Enochian Magick is any attempt to communicate with the Enochian Angels in order to a. gain knowledge; b. perform some action (such as finding treasure - a goetic favorite); c. gain power (over others, etc.). The first one is acceptable to the Angels, and they will readily help you discover all kinds of 'hidden truths,' about yourself, and about the world. The second point is less apt to get a positive response since these particular beings aren't too keen on becoming 'errand boys' for anyone. Remember, THEY HAVE AN AGENDA, and they are as interested in using you for their agenda as you are interested in using them for yours. The last point is almost a non-issue since they will not help you gain power over others (and if you find an entity that will, it isn't an Enochian Angel).[/INDENT]

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Original post: paaa

Paaa I would have to disagree. The enochian angels have there own agenda's and although a seriously powerful system they are not errand boys like the Goetia

Let me quote another source for you, the angel Ave (from the Cotton appendix):

If it be an incurable disease (in the judgement of man) then adde the letter that standeth against the name, and make him up five: then he cureth miraculously. But if thou wilt send sicknesse, then take two of the letters, and adde the letter of the Crose [[delta] the black crosse] to that, as in the second, a To. [[delta] . This a, is of the crosse of union, or the black crosse.] ...... Then he is a wicked power, and bringeth in disease:

Ave. ...... These can give money coined, in Gold or Silver. [delta] . Which these? [delta] . These wicked ones mean you? ...... I. The other give no money coined, but the metal. -notes- G1 Wicked Angels whose names are of 3 letters 4. Angels above every of the lesser crosses. Erg', 16 such in every of the 4 principal quarters.

I have myself worked with the servient angels and they can most certainly do very mundane things. However it should be noted that all angels have agendas, just as people do. The will do things for you, but they will also do things to you. Also, karma is a bitch when dealing with Enochian forces and some actions will hit you hard!

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Original post: Cyrix_777

Ok Point Taken but I was referring more to calling up the Seniors etc to get laid or kill your mother in law .. Not a good idea In my experience the Enochian Angels they don't suffer fools lightly ..

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Original post: Vooan

For material things use the angels and cacodemons of the Table of Earth, whose functions are, according to Ave:
All human knowledge
Medicine
Knowledge and use of elemental creatures
Knowledge of, and the locations and virtues of metals and stones
The joining together and destruction of natures
Moving from place to place
Knowledge of mechanical crafts
Transformation (of form not essence)
Secrets of men

How these are used in practice is a matter of interpretation. For example, you mention honesty which might fall under the category of 'secrets of men' in the sense of revealing what is hidden. For love, I suppose the angels of the joining together of natures might be used, or if one simply wished to increase attractiveness then the angels of transformation might be beneficial. The cacodemons are typically used for negative purposes: for example, those of medicine may be used to cause, rather than heal, sickness.

I think it's important to recognise that what is described as 'Enochian magic' is effectively a set of techniques that may be more, or less, suited to a given situation. If I wanted to improve my luck I'm more likely to consecrate a Jupiter talisman than consider an Enochian working. Similarly if I wanted to attract love then I'd invoke Aphrodite. Think about what's best suited for your purposes.

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Original post: paaa

Ok Point Taken but I was referring more to calling up the Seniors etc to get laid or kill your mother in law .. Not a good idea In my experience the Enochian Angels they don't suffer fools lightly ..

I agree, the kings and the seniors are not really part of the hierachy anyway. They distribute energy throughout the tables and charge their subjects to perform duties. However, they are useful in larger workings when you just need the raw energy of the tables, instead of working with a specific deity.

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Original post: ArsmagnA

The excerpts cited are exactly what google would not find me.

Cryix_777 & Paaa thank you soo much. I long to commiserate over these things, and have never been able to talk with knowledgeable people.

So the question is now:

If the Angels have an agenda, what the hell is it

?

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Original post: Cyrix_777

Arsmagna .. I really don't want to get into it on this forum as the last time I did it turned into a Riot As everyone has a very different opinion on what the agenda is specifically .. here is a book that looks at this debate and is a really good read and a good overview of the system ..

The book is called "The Keys to the Abyss" by Anthony testa .. Give it a read and lets discuss the Ebook is free ..

http://www.lulu.com/browse/book_view.ph ... fBuyItem=5

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Original post: paaa

The excerpts cited are exactly what google would not find me.

Cryix_777 & Paaa thank you soo much. I long to commiserate over these things, and have never been able to talk with knowledgeable people.

So the question is now:

If the Angels have an agenda, what the hell is it

?

Well, there are some magicians with various speculations out there. Donald Tyson suggests that they are here to bring about the apocalypse, a notion that does not sit well in the general Enochian community. Although his points are not without total merit. The Enochian system is apocalyptic in nature and many things in it are taken staright out of Revelation, however Tyson is one of those end-of-the-world type of guys that start seeing omens everywhere.

Personally I think they are here to teach us the true nature of the universe and especially our own little back yard of it. The material is very revelatory in nature and the deeper one goes the more structure you get. Ultimately I think they want us to evolve to our full potential and rejoin the rest of the universe with a clear understanding of who and what we really are. This would probably involve some sort of apocalypse, but hardly in the rivers-turning-to-blood-way.

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Original post: Cyrix_777

Paaa I have always held that belief that the Enochian Apocalypse Agenda is probably the destruction of mans materialistic nature, and to bring about a drastic change in mans perceptions ..

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Original post: paaa

Paaa I have always held that belief that the Enochian Apocalypse Agenda is probably the destruction of mans materialistic nature, and to bring about a drastic change in mans perceptions ..

I tend to view it as the destruction of the ego, which stops us from connecting to our inner spirit.

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Original post: ArsmagnA

[QUOTE=Cyrix_777;293445]Arsmagna .. I really don't want to get into it on this forum as the last time I did it turned into a Riot As everyone has a very different opinion on what the agenda is specifically .. here is a book that looks at this debate and is a really good read and a good overview of the system ..

The book is called "The Keys to the Abyss" by Anthony testa .. Give it a read and lets discuss the Ebook is free ..

http://www.lulu.com/browse/book_view.ph ... fBuyItem=5[/QUOTE]

Thanks and will do!

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Original post: ArsmagnA

[QUOTE=paaa;293446]Well, there are some magicians with various speculations out there. Donald Tyson suggests that they are here to bring about the apocalypse, a notion that does not sit well in the general Enochian community. Although his points are not without total merit. The Enochian system is apocalyptic in nature and many things in it are taken staright out of Revelation, however Tyson is one of those end-of-the-world type of guys that start seeing omens everywhere.

Personally I think they are here to teach us the true nature of the universe and especially our own little back yard of it. The material is very revelatory in nature and the deeper one goes the more structure you get. Ultimately I think they want us to evolve to our full potential and rejoin the rest of the universe with a clear understanding of who and what we really are. This would probably involve some sort of apocalypse, but hardly in the rivers-turning-to-blood-way.[/QUOTE]

So this Tyson, he proposes that they are actually catalyzing agents? I can groove with your take on it, but I don't think apocalypse happens without a few bloody rivers--at least not with the present state of collective human imagination!

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Original post: ArsmagnA

[QUOTE=paaa;293451]I tend to view it as the destruction of the ego, which stops us from connecting to our inner spirit.[/QUOTE]

Does anyone think they are just trying to warn us of something?

And is it common to scrye using water?

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Original post: Cyrix_777

Water , Crystals , Dark Mirror , Eyelids ? Whatever works for you

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Original post: paaa

So this Tyson, he proposes that they are actually catalyzing agents? I can groove with your take on it, but I don't think apocalypse happens without a few bloody rivers--at least not with the present state of collective human imagination!

Well, Tyson seems really into the idea of angels killing people, rivers running red with blood and all that. I tend to see the apocalypse more from a spiritual view, especially since Enochian is revelatory in nature.

What do you think is the most probable scenario if God reveals himself to the world and the whole world becomes aware of the presese of the spiritual world over night?

1 - Huge dudes with wings come to slaughter the sinners?

2 - Mankind becomes shocked and there are a massive death toll due to it.

I propose door number two

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Original post: Cyrix_777

I am for the Winged dudes issuing one way tickets to hell !