Original post: Amur
[QUOTE=Yog-Sothoth;373256]I too, like my ego that's mainly why i asked this, because i disagree with some magical systems saying that one should eliminate the ego.[/QUOTE]
What they mean with this is to eliminate the illusionary pieces of the ego or self-Id that are based upon cloggings and psychological hurts. When one gets rid of these ambigious feelings, meaning healing them or expressing those cloggings / hurts, they become and integrated part of the whole which is ready to be harnessed and used by the rest of the organism, which also gives one a more proper view of one's own internal Star paradigm...
Usually these cloggings / hurts tend to loop themselves in different situations until they are solved, but the problem is that many times these loopings may be totally unconscious to the experiencer who has no idea what the hell is going on.....
Anyway about the topic, I find it's quite stupid to 'try to love' or make any form of specialized concentration on the topic, feelings tend to flow quite naturally if one lets them and there's not much effort which is needed to do so.
If I hate someone, then it probably is so and I tend to not even 'try to love' those but let it be instead of trying to say that with a grimace that 'I love you' when that is not the case... Perhaps when that hate is expressed things can turn and it might take a step towards something else...
Love others more than thyself.
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Original post: Amur
[QUOTE=Venefica;374055]Putting others before one self only work in an ideal world, this is not an ideal world. If everyone cared more for those around them than for themself then you would receive so much love and care from those around you you did not need to put yourself first. Give your money to charity? No problem for when the roof on your house fails, others will fix it for you just like you have for them. However this is a dog eats dog world, and the one that only give end up with nothing, and in addition. I do not think it is a good idea to have a world where everyone just depend on the goodness of others, it give others allot of power over you. I do not see loving others more than myself as more ideal, I see it as unnatural and ideal created by Right Hand Path religions and not a natural thing in the human mind.[/QUOTE]
Quite well put really, it's crazy what the so called RHP religions are doing to people and it only seems to make them weaker and weaker from a perspective of individuality. Some of them really turns people nuts and even make them go against their own intuitional feelings, that are kind of a corner stone in a humans life....
If one really wants to be unselfish, I do recommend being 100% selfish first to get enough of power and willpower to be unselfish, it doesn't work so that one thinks that 'I should love that fellow even though I hate him' and then go against one's own feelings, which is what many so called spiritual seekers do in this day...
[QUOTE=Venefica;374055]Putting others before one self only work in an ideal world, this is not an ideal world. If everyone cared more for those around them than for themself then you would receive so much love and care from those around you you did not need to put yourself first. Give your money to charity? No problem for when the roof on your house fails, others will fix it for you just like you have for them. However this is a dog eats dog world, and the one that only give end up with nothing, and in addition. I do not think it is a good idea to have a world where everyone just depend on the goodness of others, it give others allot of power over you. I do not see loving others more than myself as more ideal, I see it as unnatural and ideal created by Right Hand Path religions and not a natural thing in the human mind.[/QUOTE]
Quite well put really, it's crazy what the so called RHP religions are doing to people and it only seems to make them weaker and weaker from a perspective of individuality. Some of them really turns people nuts and even make them go against their own intuitional feelings, that are kind of a corner stone in a humans life....
If one really wants to be unselfish, I do recommend being 100% selfish first to get enough of power and willpower to be unselfish, it doesn't work so that one thinks that 'I should love that fellow even though I hate him' and then go against one's own feelings, which is what many so called spiritual seekers do in this day...
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Original post: Venefica
I think it is far better with a balance. Caring for one self, and others, instead of going to extremes on either end of the scale.
I think it is far better with a balance. Caring for one self, and others, instead of going to extremes on either end of the scale.
No what most mean with this is that you should destroy your ego and be one with the universe and forget that there is a differance between you and others. Some go so far that they think you should have no mind at all, just a Spirit. Remember there is allot of systems that are very ego, self, material bad, love, Spirit, unity good.What they mean with this is to eliminate the illusionary pieces of the ego or self-Id that are based upon cloggings and psychological hurts.
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Original post: Aurum
Treat others as you would like to be treated has a difference, I understand that, which is why I said this is what I personally believe in. I believe that in itself though, is about caring. Do you understand what I mean when I say putting someone before oneself by the act of caring? Something such as making a cup of tea for someone or being able to look after a young sibling? So giving someone bread is indeed putting someone else before you even if you didn't need the bread. This is of course natural, and doesn't have anything to do with loving oneself less.
Treat others as you would like to be treated has a difference, I understand that, which is why I said this is what I personally believe in. I believe that in itself though, is about caring. Do you understand what I mean when I say putting someone before oneself by the act of caring? Something such as making a cup of tea for someone or being able to look after a young sibling? So giving someone bread is indeed putting someone else before you even if you didn't need the bread. This is of course natural, and doesn't have anything to do with loving oneself less.
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Original post: forgivereleasesatanpure
we are not to mis up love thy neighbour with helping thy nighbour if your brother asks you for help take the thorn out of your own eye before your brothers own this is the golden rule of religion such as you seem to call the ego.
we are also not to want what our neighbour has such as keeping up with the joenses.
follow the whole it does become fulfilling
some stretch it in the olden days by having the moral of allowing their mariage partner to make their choices for them
in the stretch of things we are left with faith and trust the good and bad senario
we are not to mis up love thy neighbour with helping thy nighbour if your brother asks you for help take the thorn out of your own eye before your brothers own this is the golden rule of religion such as you seem to call the ego.
we are also not to want what our neighbour has such as keeping up with the joenses.
follow the whole it does become fulfilling
some stretch it in the olden days by having the moral of allowing their mariage partner to make their choices for them
in the stretch of things we are left with faith and trust the good and bad senario
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Original post: The Dark Necromancer
I believe Confucius once said something along the lines of one should sweep the snow off his own steps before sweeping the snow off the steps of his neighbour.
If you want to help another it is ideal you do so at the best of your own advantage rather than assisting with less than 100% of your capabilities.
I believe Confucius once said something along the lines of one should sweep the snow off his own steps before sweeping the snow off the steps of his neighbour.
If you want to help another it is ideal you do so at the best of your own advantage rather than assisting with less than 100% of your capabilities.
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Original post: forgivereleasesatanpure
then were stuch with the labeling issue in life as one quate that money can get you away with murder as in the oj simpson case or mickael jackson idea of buying the witnesses stuff like that in the law it suggests no one is above the law thus the president court case
evil tries to place a dime price tag upon reality items to gain a sence of little faith based on the spiritual gifts within society. kind of like seek life elsewhere. ifyour going to take the shirt off of your back for a homeless person and wander why its cold you only have yourself to blame.
we might be in the middle of winter with many homless some recond non profit places now how to help others best. some choose to catch taxis in life and can afford it some try to pass the buck without following the rules themselves.
as confuses said once i hear no evil i see no evil i speak no evil monkey tree cant climb
individuality equality is the answer
then were stuch with the labeling issue in life as one quate that money can get you away with murder as in the oj simpson case or mickael jackson idea of buying the witnesses stuff like that in the law it suggests no one is above the law thus the president court case
evil tries to place a dime price tag upon reality items to gain a sence of little faith based on the spiritual gifts within society. kind of like seek life elsewhere. ifyour going to take the shirt off of your back for a homeless person and wander why its cold you only have yourself to blame.
we might be in the middle of winter with many homless some recond non profit places now how to help others best. some choose to catch taxis in life and can afford it some try to pass the buck without following the rules themselves.
as confuses said once i hear no evil i see no evil i speak no evil monkey tree cant climb
individuality equality is the answer
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Original post: Amur
[QUOTE=Venefica;374279]
No what most mean with this is that you should destroy your ego and be one with the universe and forget that there is a differance between you and others. Some go so far that they think you should have no mind at all, just a Spirit. Remember there is allot of systems that are very ego, self, material bad, love, Spirit, unity good.[/QUOTE]
Well then they are completely wrong and misguided. I managed to destroy my ego and all I'm left with is the debris and some odd parts and alot of suffering to clear up with so that I could get my life back on track lol..... And yes I was unified to the whole fucking world and it was one of the most terrible things ever because of the idiocy and level of psychosity of it....
I think appropriate borders are a bit better that ego defines instead of being in a continual state of psychosis or schizophrenia....
[QUOTE=Venefica;374279]
No what most mean with this is that you should destroy your ego and be one with the universe and forget that there is a differance between you and others. Some go so far that they think you should have no mind at all, just a Spirit. Remember there is allot of systems that are very ego, self, material bad, love, Spirit, unity good.[/QUOTE]
Well then they are completely wrong and misguided. I managed to destroy my ego and all I'm left with is the debris and some odd parts and alot of suffering to clear up with so that I could get my life back on track lol..... And yes I was unified to the whole fucking world and it was one of the most terrible things ever because of the idiocy and level of psychosity of it....
I think appropriate borders are a bit better that ego defines instead of being in a continual state of psychosis or schizophrenia....
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Original post: forgivereleasesatanpure
i wont mark your words for i a schizophrenic would never choose to be normal perhaps closterfobia and reading difficulties are difficult to except. at the same time i would never wish my life on my worst enemy.
seems to me most of society cant handle of phanthom the realizm of the big picture of things the universe is huge how can i achieve any real purpose type debate. the big picture is quite the opposite you notice such things as how powerful the spiritual gifts and rewards really are nowing how much spiritual back up you have escapes almost any fear in life. after awhile you aceive almost everything your path set forth to you because there rewards are so great and the big picture scares the leaches from their share. when you in life have backup and you can phanthom the big picture of it nothing gets in your way positive thinking type thing.
schizophrenia is based on spiritual conversation and images of things. you can make friends favores ect in time of rightious wars. in that road your levels change and such things as the voice of evolution appears or perhaps heavens voice quite heavenly rewards as such. i move my delusional images within carma stuff on which i also maintain and battle dark forces. reinforcing buildings and such size into simple rocks. the size of spiritual power you could believe unless you took such a travel.
some in society want a baby blanket around them protecting them from the big picture of things rituals to such things as evolution never nowing their fated deals. im in tune with these things. normal spiritualists prefer the strings attached instead of facing the set deals made with witchcraft practices.
i just prefer no strings so why do you label me for it
i wont mark your words for i a schizophrenic would never choose to be normal perhaps closterfobia and reading difficulties are difficult to except. at the same time i would never wish my life on my worst enemy.
seems to me most of society cant handle of phanthom the realizm of the big picture of things the universe is huge how can i achieve any real purpose type debate. the big picture is quite the opposite you notice such things as how powerful the spiritual gifts and rewards really are nowing how much spiritual back up you have escapes almost any fear in life. after awhile you aceive almost everything your path set forth to you because there rewards are so great and the big picture scares the leaches from their share. when you in life have backup and you can phanthom the big picture of it nothing gets in your way positive thinking type thing.
schizophrenia is based on spiritual conversation and images of things. you can make friends favores ect in time of rightious wars. in that road your levels change and such things as the voice of evolution appears or perhaps heavens voice quite heavenly rewards as such. i move my delusional images within carma stuff on which i also maintain and battle dark forces. reinforcing buildings and such size into simple rocks. the size of spiritual power you could believe unless you took such a travel.
some in society want a baby blanket around them protecting them from the big picture of things rituals to such things as evolution never nowing their fated deals. im in tune with these things. normal spiritualists prefer the strings attached instead of facing the set deals made with witchcraft practices.
i just prefer no strings so why do you label me for it
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Original post: Yog-Sothoth
[QUOTE=The Dark Necromancer;374420]I believe Confucius once said something along the lines of one should sweep the snow off his own steps before sweeping the snow off the steps of his neighbour.
If you want to help another it is ideal you do so at the best of your own advantage rather than assisting with less than 100% of your capabilities.[/QUOTE]
I totally agree with that, before judging others, judge yourself first.
[QUOTE=The Dark Necromancer;374420]I believe Confucius once said something along the lines of one should sweep the snow off his own steps before sweeping the snow off the steps of his neighbour.
If you want to help another it is ideal you do so at the best of your own advantage rather than assisting with less than 100% of your capabilities.[/QUOTE]
I totally agree with that, before judging others, judge yourself first.
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Original post: Levite
Not that I want to go all Christian here, but I can't help but note that Jesus actually mentions that himself. Round about the beginning of the 7th chapter of Matthew, as I recall.Yog-Sothoth;375162 wrote:I totally agree with that, before judging others, judge yourself first.
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Original post: Master 27
^ Buddha said it first.
^ Buddha said it first.
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Original post: Cascara
In order to love, you need to be able to care.
To be able to care, you need to be able to take responsibility and this is something many people find difficult to do.
It is the insecure that seek for love in others, instead of seeking for it within themselves. This results in an expectation that nobody can live up to and in turn results in dissappoinment. This makes the seeker for love even more insecure.
When you find love within yourself, and you can accomplish to love yourself including your own weaknesses, it will help you to accept other's weaknesses as well and if you wish, can help others to overcome theirs.
When you have learned to 'love' yourself and an other remarks upon one of your weaknesses, it won't hurt, you will have come to understand that you are merely learning to overcome them like the person who has made the remark most likely has not been able to do him or herself...
In order to love, you need to be able to care.
To be able to care, you need to be able to take responsibility and this is something many people find difficult to do.
It is the insecure that seek for love in others, instead of seeking for it within themselves. This results in an expectation that nobody can live up to and in turn results in dissappoinment. This makes the seeker for love even more insecure.
When you find love within yourself, and you can accomplish to love yourself including your own weaknesses, it will help you to accept other's weaknesses as well and if you wish, can help others to overcome theirs.
When you have learned to 'love' yourself and an other remarks upon one of your weaknesses, it won't hurt, you will have come to understand that you are merely learning to overcome them like the person who has made the remark most likely has not been able to do him or herself...
Love others more than thyself.
selfishness doesn't tend to breed contentment, as you imply.Occultforums.com Archive wrote:Original post: Amur
Quite well put really, it's crazy what the so called RHP religions are doing to people and it only seems to make them weaker and weaker from a perspective of individuality. Some of them really turns people nuts and even make them go against their own intuitional feelings, that are kind of a corner stone in a humans life....Venefica;374055 wrote:Putting others before one self only work in an ideal world, this is not an ideal world. If everyone cared more for those around them than for themself then you would receive so much love and care from those around you you did not need to put yourself first. Give your money to charity? No problem for when the roof on your house fails, others will fix it for you just like you have for them. However this is a dog eats dog world, and the one that only give end up with nothing, and in addition. I do not think it is a good idea to have a world where everyone just depend on the goodness of others, it give others allot of power over you. I do not see loving others more than myself as more ideal, I see it as unnatural and ideal created by Right Hand Path religions and not a natural thing in the human mind.
If one really wants to be unselfish, I do recommend being 100% selfish first to get enough of power and willpower to be unselfish, it doesn't work so that one thinks that 'I should love that fellow even though I hate him' and then go against one's own feelings, which is what many so called spiritual seekers do in this day...
I would agree though, that I personally see more misguided ideas flying under the banner of RHP than LHP. Which is to say, that elitism, ego, & lack of self direction or thought, seem to be more of a problem in what we typically call right hand paths in our current culture. The RHP, as it is understood in the west, has always attracted a large number of people operating at Kohlberg's moral development levels 3 and 4, and in turn tends to operate strictly at those levels. Which I think does little to further enlightenment.
If you destroyed your ego, then how is it that you experience suffering?Well then they are completely wrong and misguided. I managed to destroy my ego and all I'm left with is the debris and some odd parts and alot of suffering to clear up with so that I could get my life back on track lol..... And yes I was unified to the whole fucking world and it was one of the most terrible things ever because of the idiocy and level of psychosity of it....
I think appropriate borders are a bit better that ego defines instead of being in a continual state of psychosis or schizophrenia....
I think you're confusing schizophrenia with enlightenment. Though I am sure schizophrenia can have a profound impact on a person, it's not quite the same thing.
‘????????? -
?? ????Audaces fortuna iuvat
?Love others more than thyself.
Yes why only love oneself? Let's take loving say a garden of wildflowers for example or a garden filled with a variety of vegetables. What would happen if you neglected and never watered or tended to that garden, and only spent your days doing another activity instead? That garden would simply die off. We need to not only love and respect our self, we need to do this to others including other forms of life here, or we may all perish. Tending to the garden by picking the weeds and making sure it's being watered every day is our part in helping the garden thrive. We all need each other. We need doctors to help tend to our wounds because we might not know how to our self. We need mathematicians because without them, people would be unable to have things such as the internet and coding for it to work. Artists, singers, writers, entertainers, police and many more are needed too. Everyone and everything upon the Earth are important, no matter who we are or what life form we might be!
I'll be quiet now LOL
jwoman
I'll be quiet now LOL
jwoman
Re: Love others more than thyself.
As a generality,this is wrong.By logic,if everyone followed this practice,we would all die.Children should be raised,the elderly praised for their wisdom---aside from this,everyone is responsible for their own life and actions.
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Re: Love others more than thyself.
First off its quite nice to see a discussion about a topic such as this being discussed quite maturely. Im not used to this so that was quite striking.
I Myself am not the most social person for various reasons. However i do see the benefit of being "good" to each other. We are a species that is Social. People evolved to be around each other.We need each other. Everybody throughout life fullfills roles that never only benefit oneself. And if there is such a element our natural instinct seek to drive this element out (criminal).
In older times that was more obvious then today. There where man who go hunt, some who stayed at home and guard the cave some others who collect various items the list goes on. But the fact is that throughout the millions of years of our evolution being compassionate was necessary for survival. There was just no way around it, and if someone found a way around it this one would not reproduce in numbers that equal the "good" people out and would go extinct.
Today its all very complex, people who work in a factory producing fartpillows or dogtoys feel worse then lets say a doctor. Thats because we want to play our part, because we know if we dont we wont get to reproduce.
Or lets take youths. Like many of u know many youth love to accumulate on entry places, such as doorways or schoolyards. Thats they instincts telling them "Hey i need to guard the cave because i am not strong enough yet (got a degree) to hunt (work). Males are quite simple so i choose them as an example.
Obviously religions picked up this Hardwired information. And give it to us in a more simpler fashion so everybody understands.
BE GOOD and good will come to YOU!
That that isnt true anymore doesnt really matter. Our society became in the last couple of thousend years so large and so complex that our instincts are somewhat overwhelemed and we dont often know "What is the right thing todo?"
Its kinda like our Gut flora.
You need the bacterias and viruses inside, u need loads of them actually to live a normal life. We could not really live without them but still we put antibiotics into our chickens and cattle for the sake of profit. Which then in turn creates "superbugs" who then infect us, who then get treated by a Superdose of antibiotics who then kill off a majority of our gut flora what then causes more problems.
What i want to say is that Our "Goodness" isnt made for our smarts. We can be incredibly smart on one thing (shoot missiles to mars) but unimaginably stupid on other (endangering humanitys Continuance as a whole) We are too complicated now our technological and sociological advances where too fast for our instincts to follow.
So we have religion, as a way to balance this out.
So my take on this is, If you love yourself you must love (help) others.
PS gosh...my post is all cluttered up, grammer nazis....enjoy ur feast ^_^
I Myself am not the most social person for various reasons. However i do see the benefit of being "good" to each other. We are a species that is Social. People evolved to be around each other.We need each other. Everybody throughout life fullfills roles that never only benefit oneself. And if there is such a element our natural instinct seek to drive this element out (criminal).
In older times that was more obvious then today. There where man who go hunt, some who stayed at home and guard the cave some others who collect various items the list goes on. But the fact is that throughout the millions of years of our evolution being compassionate was necessary for survival. There was just no way around it, and if someone found a way around it this one would not reproduce in numbers that equal the "good" people out and would go extinct.
Today its all very complex, people who work in a factory producing fartpillows or dogtoys feel worse then lets say a doctor. Thats because we want to play our part, because we know if we dont we wont get to reproduce.
Or lets take youths. Like many of u know many youth love to accumulate on entry places, such as doorways or schoolyards. Thats they instincts telling them "Hey i need to guard the cave because i am not strong enough yet (got a degree) to hunt (work). Males are quite simple so i choose them as an example.
Obviously religions picked up this Hardwired information. And give it to us in a more simpler fashion so everybody understands.
BE GOOD and good will come to YOU!
That that isnt true anymore doesnt really matter. Our society became in the last couple of thousend years so large and so complex that our instincts are somewhat overwhelemed and we dont often know "What is the right thing todo?"
Its kinda like our Gut flora.
You need the bacterias and viruses inside, u need loads of them actually to live a normal life. We could not really live without them but still we put antibiotics into our chickens and cattle for the sake of profit. Which then in turn creates "superbugs" who then infect us, who then get treated by a Superdose of antibiotics who then kill off a majority of our gut flora what then causes more problems.
What i want to say is that Our "Goodness" isnt made for our smarts. We can be incredibly smart on one thing (shoot missiles to mars) but unimaginably stupid on other (endangering humanitys Continuance as a whole) We are too complicated now our technological and sociological advances where too fast for our instincts to follow.
So we have religion, as a way to balance this out.
So my take on this is, If you love yourself you must love (help) others.
PS gosh...my post is all cluttered up, grammer nazis....enjoy ur feast ^_^
Re: Love others more than thyself.
You made some great points, I really enjoyed reading your post, for the most part I agree with you. IMHO Religion for the masses, seems counter-productive for a person that is searching inside his/herself for his/her own path. But , I'm sure there are many that do benefit from it.
Helping people really is a source of happiness, Conflict wastes our energy. The question is at what point is it reasonable to produce conflict? Tough question, maybe there really are no answers.
Helping people really is a source of happiness, Conflict wastes our energy. The question is at what point is it reasonable to produce conflict? Tough question, maybe there really are no answers.
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Re: Love others more than thyself.
Think it just means love every human being with all your heart empirically at the very least. Not sure if there is some point when a person shouldnt be loved (hard to love some selfish people personally), at least show pitty that a soul got corrupted and potentially morn it, and that you cannot judge peoples spiritual success only a superior being would be able to.
Re: Love others more than thyself.
I have always gone with the thought that in order to fully love others, you first have to love yourself. Though there seems to be a contrast with what people think is to hold true and what they are actually doing in reality.
But in most options, they are just as available as everything can be, from what is going to happen and what is bound to happen.
You just have to go with it, whatever purpose is going out.
But in most options, they are just as available as everything can be, from what is going to happen and what is bound to happen.
You just have to go with it, whatever purpose is going out.
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Re: Love others more than thyself.
Certainly something I've been itching at the last year-ish.
Self is an illusion from perception. The 'i' only manifests after the knowledge transcoded from senses forces us to define our spatial area as something separate from the whole. Ergo, really others are an illusion too(no one truly exists outside of their own mind, they instead become a relative/incomplete idea that now exists in another observing mind). I guess it doesn't really matter if you are more egocentric than not, but one's influence on the world may exponentially increase when the mind views itself as more than just 1 body, 1 life, 1 name etc
Self is an illusion from perception. The 'i' only manifests after the knowledge transcoded from senses forces us to define our spatial area as something separate from the whole. Ergo, really others are an illusion too(no one truly exists outside of their own mind, they instead become a relative/incomplete idea that now exists in another observing mind). I guess it doesn't really matter if you are more egocentric than not, but one's influence on the world may exponentially increase when the mind views itself as more than just 1 body, 1 life, 1 name etc
Re: Love others more than thyself.
Not in my world, not anymore. Agapē indeed, but love myself first.