The Satanist looks at society with contempt, but tries to fit in. The Satanist is polite, and moves as a wolf among sheep. He/she sceretly houses a dangerous mind.
The Satanist would not sacrafice his/her life for someone else, as 99.9% of humans are cattle. Their lives do not matter. As for the few that actually matter, they can fend for themselves.
This is the psychology of a typical serial killer.
You're forgetting that animals are social creatures.
Run with that for a bit...social interaction is VERY animal-like and doesn't contradict anything about personal growth, self-deification, or any other satanic principle that I can see.
Wouldn't sociopath be a better term. He didn't say "kill 99.9% of the population".
I view all members of the MLO as a superior breed of human, therefore I can respect them. As for my friends, I pick who my friends are. I look for people that have above average intelligence. I look for superior humans to be my friends.
This is like saying all Japanese people like the taste of fish, carry swords and use chop-sticks in order to eat steamed rice.
"A Satanist" isn't a binary absolute; he or she is not an exact clone of the archytypal. One "Satanist" can and will have many values and attributes opposite to another "Satanist". The actual word "Satanist" is less than meaningless.
"A Satanist" isn't a binary absolute; he or she is not an exact clone of the archytypal. One "Satanist" can and will have many values and attributes opposite to another "Satanist". The actual word "Satanist" is less than meaningless.
But you can make that statement about any social, ethnic or cultural grouping. While stereotypes are never helpful, how people self-identify often relates to a larger group or an ethos of some sort no?
Azerate218;320903 wrote:The misanthrope views themselves as superior to mankind. Therefore it is possible for them to love themselves.
I view all members of the MLO as a superior breed of human, therefore I can respect them. As for my friends, I pick who my friends are. I look for people that have above average intelligence. I look for superior humans to be my friends.
Interesting.
And so the misanthrope, being human, feels superior to fellow humans even though misanthropy is distrust and hatred of humankind. Because of this predisposition the misanthrope is then a loner, a recluse an isolationist. So when a misanthrope claims to have friends, as an egoist and a cynic, how does one recognize superior humans when they can only judge from their personal level of intellect!? Which is first invested in hatered of all mankind. If someone hates all of mankind and feels superior to them, in themselves, how is it they can ever find a peer!?
The Satanist looks at society with contempt, but tries to fit in. The Satanist is polite, and moves as a wolf among sheep. He/she sceretly houses a dangerous mind.
The Satanist would not sacrafice his/her life for someone else, as 99.9% of humans are cattle. Their lives do not matter. As for the few that actually matter, they can fend for themselves.
I would agree with you Centrix that the traits described are similar to those harboured in the minds of serial killers. However, barring overt acts of mass murder, it would otherwise be aptly construed as psychopathy. Which would preclude any genuine claim to Luciferianism.
i prefer hate over love myself...unless someone causes me great pain..then i will cross that line...misanthrophy seems to take way too much energie proving things that are some masterbatory exercise in ego-ism... show me the fruit of a misanthrope! seriously.. what does your "deification" benefit anyone? does it benifit your own happiness?
[QUOTE=frater luciferi;321167]i prefer hate over love myself...unless someone causes me great pain..then i will cross that line...misanthrophy seems to take way too much energie proving things that are some masterbatory exercise in ego-ism... show me the fruit of a misanthrope! seriously.. what does your "deification" benefit anyone? does it benifit your own happiness?[/QUOTE]
I think you probably meant "love over hate"--this from reading what you posted a couple of times. This is I feel quite a valid point, with which I tend to agree.
Being irascable and difficult takes up too much energy. Being angry and disagreeable, and arguing with people all the time are the hallmarks of a weak, inferior person.
(By "inferior person" I mean someone I know I can easily pwn, in case you were wondering.)
If I am polite and relatively friendly to others, I can learn more about them, and that includes finding out what their weak points are. This is always useful information.
If I allow some contentious asshole to make me angry, then HE has gained an advantage over me.
My anger and hatred have the power of magic--they are not magic in the strict sense, but they have the same force when applied in a judicious manner.
If you go around spending your hatred on every dumbass who wants to pick a fight, it's the same as walking along the street firing bullets into random objects--eventually the cops will show up and then you won't have any bullets left, you n00b.
I could make more observations here but I need to get back to work. I hope this was helpful, although I'll note that this thread died months ago and the person who resurrected it is trying to pick a fight with someone who doesn't visit the site that often. But whatever. xoxo Scarlett
Scarlett_156;321218 wrote:I think you probably meant "love over hate"--this from reading what you posted a couple of times. This is I feel quite a valid point, with which I tend to agree.
Being irascable and difficult takes up too much energy. Being angry and disagreeable, and arguing with people all the time are the hallmarks of a weak, inferior person.
(By "inferior person" I mean someone I know I can easily pwn, in case you were wondering.)
If I am polite and relatively friendly to others, I can learn more about them, and that includes finding out what their weak points are. This is always useful information.
If I allow some contentious asshole to make me angry, then HE has gained an advantage over me.
My anger and hatred have the power of magic--they are not magic in the strict sense, but they have the same force when applied in a judicious manner.
If you go around spending your hatred on every dumbass who wants to pick a fight, it's the same as walking along the street firing bullets into random objects--eventually the cops will show up and then you won't have any bullets left, you n00b.
I could make more observations here but I need to get back to work. I hope this was helpful, although I'll note that this thread died months ago and the person who resurrected it is trying to pick a fight with someone who doesn't visit the site that often. But whatever. xoxo Scarlett
i think that was a freudian slip on my part as i just had a very nasty painful breakup with a wonderful woman...wierd
Probably laughing at the thought of what he'd say regarding the irony of a personality like yours contributing to any thread wherein "Civility" is included in the title.
Now if only you could forward a few PM's around to the on board clique it would be a perfect example of Freudian need indeed.
I wish you wouldn't be so spiteful. I never did anything to you. There are many here whose lack of insight and charitableness towards others make my infractions look like blind self-sacrifice, and yet no one ever seems to notice or comment.
I think what you are reacting to is gossip, not any real hard evidence that I've done anything wrong to anyone. Any elementary school student can work up the same sort of campaign and make his peers fall for it.
You and doh thought that those guys who were bothering that tiger were "asking for it" when she attacked them, after all... it seems that where "wild" animals are concerned, you still have some capacity to be able to see things for what they are. xoxo
The casual Internet is hardly a place to consider as going for or against ones own personal interests, quite honestly you never really know what kind of freak or jack- ass is on the other end of the keyboard. I judge my reality solely on my own interactions with physical people in the physical world (some of them are just as full of shit as some here on this board-including myself!) but overall this worm eaten wooden world covered with cheap flaking gold paint is but a reflection of ourselves.
[QUOTE=Hans2;261205]Most Satanists seem to equate notions of "brotherhood" (in the Christian sense of the word) with weakness. Most Satanists likewise focus (naturally) on themselves, their needs, goals, etc., but to what extent is this practical in a social setting? How do these things mesh with notions of civility in society? Is civility rooted only in spiritual concepts which Satanists eschew, or did it exist before these were developed? Is one untrue to Satanic ideals if he or she gives up a seat on a bus to a handicapped, pregnant or elderly person? Is it "non-Satanic" to be pleasant to people and to not believe that every kind human act is based on an ulterior motive? Is it against Satanic principles, for example, to risk one's life to save another?
It's a good point to bring up hans. The Temple of THEM believes that "brotherhood" is a necessary element in Satanism and have it enshrined in a term we call "In Sinister Solidarity" or ISS.
What this means, is that there is an understanding of various stages of magical growth in a person following a Satanic or even just heuristic path, i.e. finding things out for themselves using their own methods. In the early stages, a satanist is rash, eager, keen to make immediate changes and rushes in to do their bit, usually hung up on black magic, symbolism, ritual and the like, but not always, some of the more extreme forms of Satanism such as the ONA prompt a more gradual but guided and dynamic quest broken into stages that have these things as a beginning but then move on beyond them. Later, after many experiements, experiences, and a great deal of life experience; the aspirant may mature to the point where they understand that an isolated fulcrum to cause change has a double-edge. In the beginning that understanding is easily split into two very different halves - later, it is a very fine line between acting for oneself and enlisting the help of others; what some call 'manipulation' when used for personal gain, and 'aeonic or suprapersonal manipulation' when done for the good of mankind or a specific group of people. How practical either of these approaches are depends greatly on the will, experience, and understanding of each person trying to implement them. Certainly it comes about as one gets older in some people as an awareness of the conectivity of things esp people and the way in which some things can be pushed to make other things happen. And with this, generally comes a greater appreciation and Love for people - certainly a neutrality occurs in which all people are viewed as bascially blank slates, responsible for their own actions, but not always their predicaments. this is an impersonal and detached civility and compassion - yet no lack of spirit to do what must be done according to ones own personal judgements, but again as one gets older those judgements generally get humbled again and again until the satanist is less likely to be opiniated and self-serving, and watch on, only giving an indirect hand in matters.
There are a lot of different types of Satanism. I don't think any type can cover all statements or suit all questions. I have chosen a way that embodies politeness, civility, and good manners to those who deserve it. I believe one is untrue to Satanic ideals when one does something because one is bound by ones code to do it - I think one must want to do what one does, one must choose to act in such a way because they think it best and to hell with any code that says they must not do it because its this or that. I practice chivalry all the time, but each circumstance is a new slate, sometimes I may not feel like being chivalrous. But I may be, despite my feelings, because it is my basic code to treat humans with neutrality, because i know i'd feel bad about being a jerk afterwards and wouldnt be living up to my own expectations [and i think personal expectations of ones behaviour have a massive impact on how one practices satanism, or anything for that matter], because i don't see any reason to be rude or for others to be. When they are, then its a matter of fuck them, they'll get what I think they deserve from me.
Is it against Satanic Principles to save a life? No - Satanic Principles should be well-reasoned self choices made from the greatest amount of personal experience, thought and action and things that work in the world - or sometimes even a guess - not a naive set of laws adopted as a package to be something - because that, would make us like Christians.
I ask these questions because many Satanists seem to believe that self-deification (however perceived) goes hand in hand with being rude or uncivil, or acting whenever possible in ways that go against the "norm" in order to prove a point. This seems (to me at least) to go against our own best self interests in the long run. Am I trully empowered because I give "society" the finger, or is empowerment and self deification geared to things of substance that are more subtle in nature?[/QUOTE]
Yes they do - and in my opinion there will always be people who are just plain jerks whether they're satanic or not. But here's the rub - Satanism is all about growing, as a being, and everyone is in a different stage of that growth. Some people have no backbone to make their own decisions or lack the experience to be arrogant enough to say their peice and live their way whatever others may think and adopt a regimented set of principles and laws written by someone else to guide them. That's not satanism, that's religion. But, its a stage, like a parent watching children misbehave and fuck up, you have to let people learn for themselves. They might learn the hard way that there are consequences for being a jerk and rude, or get over themselves by themselves and grow into mature magicians. but it can't be begrudged, all experiences must be sought, even the ugly ones in creating a powerful personality aware of their obligations to work for suprapersonal aims.
I'll write this again as my last msg was mixed up with the quote line. Sorry about that.
~
It's a good point to bring up hans. The Temple of THEM believes that "brotherhood" is a necessary element in Satanism and have it enshrined in a term we call "In Sinister Solidarity" or ISS.
What this means, is that there is an understanding of various stages of magical growth in a person following a Satanic or even just heuristic path, i.e. finding things out for themselves using their own methods. In the early stages, a satanist is rash, eager, keen to make immediate changes and rushes in to do their bit, usually hung up on black magic, symbolism, ritual and the like, but not always, some of the more extreme forms of Satanism such as the ONA prompt a more gradual but guided and dynamic quest broken into stages that have these things as a beginning but then move on beyond them. Later, after many experiments, experiences, and a great deal of life experience; the aspirant may mature to the point where they understand that an isolated fulcrum to cause change has a double-edge. In the beginning that understanding is easily split into two very different halves - later, it is a very fine line between acting for oneself and enlisting the help of others; what some call 'manipulation' when used for personal gain, and 'aeonic or suprapersonal manipulation' when done for the good of mankind or a specific group of people. How practical either of these approaches are depends greatly on the will, experience, and understanding of each person trying to implement them. Certainly it comes about as one gets older in some people as an awareness of the conectivity of things esp people and the way in which some things can be pushed to make other things happen. And with this, generally comes a greater appreciation and Love for people - certainly a neutrality occurs in which all people are viewed as bascially blank slates, responsible for their own actions, but not always their predicaments. this is an impersonal and detached civility and compassion - yet no lack of spirit to do what must be done according to ones own personal judgements, but again as one gets older those judgements generally get humbled again and again until the satanist is less likely to be opiniated and self-serving, and watch on, maybe only giving an indirect hand in matters.
There are a lot of different types of Satanism. I don't think any type can cover all statements or suit all questions. I have chosen a way that embodies politeness, civility, and good manners to those who deserve it. I believe one is untrue to Satanic ideals when one does something because one is bound by ones code to do it - I think one must want to do what one does, one must choose to act in such a way because they think it best and to hell with any code that says they must not do it because its this or that. I practice chivalry all the time, but each circumstance is a new slate, sometimes I may not feel like being chivalrous. But I may be, despite my feelings, because it is my basic code to treat humans with neutrality, because i know i'd feel bad about being a jerk afterwards and wouldnt be living up to my own expectations [and i think personal expectations of ones behaviour have a massive impact on how one practices satanism, or anything for that matter], because i don't see any reason to be rude or for others to be. When they are, then its a matter of fuck them, they'll get what I think they deserve from me.
Is it against Satanic Principles to save a life? No - Satanic Principles should be well-reasoned self choices made from the greatest amount of personal experience, thought and action and things that work in the world - or sometimes even a guess - not a naive set of laws adopted as a package to be something - because that, would make us like Christians.
Yes they do - and in my opinion there will always be people who are just plain jerks whether they're satanic or not. But here's the rub - Satanism is all about growing, as a being, and everyone is in a different stage of that growth. Some people have no backbone to make their own decisions or lack the experience to be arrogant enough to say their peice and live their way whatever others may think and adopt a regimented set of principles and laws written by someone else to guide them. That's not satanism, that's religion. But, its a stage, like a parent watching children misbehave and fuck up, you have to let people learn for themselves. They might learn the hard way that there are consequences for being a jerk and rude, or get over themselves by themselves and grow into mature magicians. but it can't be begrudged, all experiences must be sought, even the ugly ones in creating a powerful personality aware of their obligations to work for suprapersonal aims.
PS - that doesn't mean endless tolerance for people who show no desire to change to correct their beahviour - and then it comes down to whether the Satanist has the strength and conviction to believe themselves better than those they have judged and the will to play judge jury and possibly executioner. I.e. it pre-supposes the satanist can believe their judgements to be objective and carry out their will for things to be the way they want them. [despite, there being no such thing as objectivity].
[QUOTE=1911;321435]Blah, Blah, Blah- in the end, whatever you typed doesn't matter.[/QUOTE]
Where logic and intellect fail to achieve results, I agree. It is from some points of view a waste of time talking, at all. If however, it fails to be useful, then Will must be achieved by brute force and physical violence. I don't expect you or anyone else to quit being a 'rude jackass' as doh puts it - esp. online, as one is cushioned from taking responsibility for being so and recieving, for instance, a well deserved punch in the solar plexus or having their jaw broken for being a mouthy cunt.
[QUOTE=Hans2;261205]Most Satanists seem to equate notions of "brotherhood" (in the Christian sense of the word) with weakness. Most Satanists likewise focus (naturally) on themselves, their needs, goals, etc., but to what extent is this practical in a social setting? How do these things mesh with notions of civility in society? Is civility rooted only in spiritual concepts which Satanists eschew, or did it exist before these were developed? Is one untrue to Satanic ideals if he or she gives up a seat on a bus to a handicapped, pregnant or elderly person? Is it "non-Satanic" to be pleasant to people and to not believe that every kind human act is based on an ulterior motive? Is it against Satanic principles, for example, to risk one's life to save another?
I ask these questions because many Satanists seem to believe that self-deification (however perceived) goes hand in hand with being rude or uncivil, or acting whenever possible in ways that go against the "norm" in order to prove a point. This seems (to me at least) to go against our own best self interests in the long run. Am I trully empowered because I give "society" the finger, or is empowerment and self deification geared to things of substance that are more subtle in nature?[/QUOTE]
Perhaps I am darkly blessed,but all but the metalhead,cat skinner wanna be's have been the epitomie of civility and kindness in my experiences.
Being kind to a person is not "un-Satanic".I would give up a bus seat to a pregnant woman.As a Satanist,I would not kill a pregnant woman like Sharon Tate.As a Satanist,I would not go on a killing spree like Richard Ramirez.Satanism has had its name smeared from the beginning.Satanism doesn't mean being rude,mean ,and rebelling against anything society does.Satanism isn't pure anarchy either.Satanism is a kingdom,with Satan as king.The best way to serve a king is to be loyal and speak correctly of him.How is always wearing a frown,always being an egoist going to help Satan? Self-deification? What? Satan is my deity.
