Original post: Dr_Doom
I am not sure where this goes, so I guess I'll put it here.
What are the qlippoth? I understand that they are "shells" of the sepheroth of the kaballah. I've read that they are basicly the opposite of the sepheroth, and therefore "evil" whatever that means. Other than that I cant really get a handle on them. Can anyone explain them to me or reccomend a good website? THX all for any responses.
What are the Qlippoth?
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What are the Qlippoth?
Original post: m1thr0s
Perhaps the term "shadow" will serve you better than the word "evil" as you have already indicated your dissatisfaction with the term and rightly so. Qliphotic literature is scant and generally unreliable stuff. The prevailing premise seems to be that the Tree of Life and all its structural "assertions" also comprise a more or less matching set of antithesis assertions classed as "shadow" variants on each and every TOL "theme". This may find its origins in the Greek notion of "Antichton", a kind of anti-matter equivalent to Earth, in particular. Qliphoth has been picked up by various Necronomicon enthusiasts to some extent who seem to mostly be attempting to root the so-called Ancient Ones (pre-Sumerian godforms etc) to these realms. There have also been attempts at linking elder Goetian entities to these same realms. Most of what you will find on this will not be especially satisfying I'm afraid but the underlying premise is compelling, what of it there actually exists...There are a few people who float through here every now and then that are more up on this stuff than myself...I am mainly responding so you don't feel totally ignored...you may find that this is a difficult area to research with almost no significant experts to be found...
Who knows...maybe you will become our resident expert in this area! In the meantime, Kenneth Grant has some of the most lucid work I've seen on this topic thus far...He seems to be mainly of the opinion that Qliphoth stems from an ancient ancestral memory now relegated to "shadow" or "nightside" consciousness, generally linked to "bestial" instincts in humankind. It might be a good place to start at least...
Post #666...hehe...
m1thr0s
Perhaps the term "shadow" will serve you better than the word "evil" as you have already indicated your dissatisfaction with the term and rightly so. Qliphotic literature is scant and generally unreliable stuff. The prevailing premise seems to be that the Tree of Life and all its structural "assertions" also comprise a more or less matching set of antithesis assertions classed as "shadow" variants on each and every TOL "theme". This may find its origins in the Greek notion of "Antichton", a kind of anti-matter equivalent to Earth, in particular. Qliphoth has been picked up by various Necronomicon enthusiasts to some extent who seem to mostly be attempting to root the so-called Ancient Ones (pre-Sumerian godforms etc) to these realms. There have also been attempts at linking elder Goetian entities to these same realms. Most of what you will find on this will not be especially satisfying I'm afraid but the underlying premise is compelling, what of it there actually exists...There are a few people who float through here every now and then that are more up on this stuff than myself...I am mainly responding so you don't feel totally ignored...you may find that this is a difficult area to research with almost no significant experts to be found...
Who knows...maybe you will become our resident expert in this area! In the meantime, Kenneth Grant has some of the most lucid work I've seen on this topic thus far...He seems to be mainly of the opinion that Qliphoth stems from an ancient ancestral memory now relegated to "shadow" or "nightside" consciousness, generally linked to "bestial" instincts in humankind. It might be a good place to start at least...
Post #666...hehe...
m1thr0s
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What are the Qlippoth?
Original post: Venus666
mithros...congratzzz ha ha ha you are now the beast
I believe the qlippoth as you mentioned is a skewed description of the gods of old that were turned into devils. If you look into thier archetypical representations you can see that it is made up of nothing more that human nature. creating the good(non-'evil') side of the qlippoth (the sepheroth?) gave us hope that we could strive to be good, even though it is against our very nature to be as such.
personally, i do not like satanists that base thier beliefs in the qlippoth mostly because about 85% of those satanists are merely following the reversal of christia ideas which does them no good at all in a spiritual way. It is the other 15% I worry about (he he he like you, mithr0s) who can see beyond it's facade and decide for yourself what it truly means.
mithros...congratzzz ha ha ha you are now the beast
I believe the qlippoth as you mentioned is a skewed description of the gods of old that were turned into devils. If you look into thier archetypical representations you can see that it is made up of nothing more that human nature. creating the good(non-'evil') side of the qlippoth (the sepheroth?) gave us hope that we could strive to be good, even though it is against our very nature to be as such.
personally, i do not like satanists that base thier beliefs in the qlippoth mostly because about 85% of those satanists are merely following the reversal of christia ideas which does them no good at all in a spiritual way. It is the other 15% I worry about (he he he like you, mithr0s) who can see beyond it's facade and decide for yourself what it truly means.
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What are the Qlippoth?
Original post: ReapeR
Anyone here worked in practice with the qlippoths and tree of death?? Crowley's Liber CCXXXI or maybe even Ford's system or something more?
Anyone here worked in practice with the qlippoths and tree of death?? Crowley's Liber CCXXXI or maybe even Ford's system or something more?
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What are the Qlippoth?
Original post: Venus666
if you can find those systms, study them...but you are really better off creating your own..oh well
if you can find those systms, study them...but you are really better off creating your own..oh well
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What are the Qlippoth?
Original post: Interstellis
http://www.shadowtarot.net/tree_of_night.asp
This site is a good reference point for Nightside studies.
http://www.shadowtarot.net/tree_of_night.asp
This site is a good reference point for Nightside studies.
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What are the Qlippoth?
Original post: m1thr0s
I wouldn't rely too much on Crowley as regarding Qliphoth...he's got a fairly parochial attitude about the whole thing really. Kenneth Grant has at least one entire book committed to this topic and seems a lot more open minded about it in general. Crowley went off a lot into his "Black Brotherhood" rants you know and so Qliphoth is not exactly his strongest suit...
m1thr0s
I wouldn't rely too much on Crowley as regarding Qliphoth...he's got a fairly parochial attitude about the whole thing really. Kenneth Grant has at least one entire book committed to this topic and seems a lot more open minded about it in general. Crowley went off a lot into his "Black Brotherhood" rants you know and so Qliphoth is not exactly his strongest suit...
m1thr0s
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What are the Qlippoth?
Original post: ReapeR
Yeah, I know Crowley's opinion about the "dark side"
. But nevertheless, his Liber CCXXXI can be usefull and it has been inspiration for excelent Linda's Shadow Tarot. Grant's books are good but are more theoretical then practical...which is a big minus. Ford also has his own luciferian system that works.
Yeah, I know Crowley's opinion about the "dark side"
. But nevertheless, his Liber CCXXXI can be usefull and it has been inspiration for excelent Linda's Shadow Tarot. Grant's books are good but are more theoretical then practical...which is a big minus. Ford also has his own luciferian system that works.-
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What are the Qlippoth?
Original post: Kerethial
I am writing grimoire based on personal experience with the Qliphoth.Book is in progress.
I am writing grimoire based on personal experience with the Qliphoth.Book is in progress.
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What are the Qlippoth?
Original post: Venus666
we would love to see this published on the net, as there arent too many reliable resources that are not anti-satanist.
we would love to see this published on the net, as there arent too many reliable resources that are not anti-satanist.
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What are the Qlippoth?
Original post: Kerethial
[QUOTE=Venus666]we would love to see this published on the net, as there arent too many reliable resources that are not anti-satanist.[/QUOTE]
I plan to make pdf and publish it on the Internet
[QUOTE=Venus666]we would love to see this published on the net, as there arent too many reliable resources that are not anti-satanist.[/QUOTE]
I plan to make pdf and publish it on the Internet
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What are the Qlippoth?
Original post: Kerethial
These chapters of the grimoire are completed at the time being:
What are the Qliphoth
Magical instruments
Qliphothic meditations and initiations
Exploring the Tree Of Death
In The Desert Of Set
Evocation of Qliphothic legions
Creation of vampiric elementals
Astral vampirism
Death magic and necromancy
Sexual black magic
Atavistic resurgence
Transformation of consciousness
These chapters of the grimoire are completed at the time being:
What are the Qliphoth
Magical instruments
Qliphothic meditations and initiations
Exploring the Tree Of Death
In The Desert Of Set
Evocation of Qliphothic legions
Creation of vampiric elementals
Astral vampirism
Death magic and necromancy
Sexual black magic
Atavistic resurgence
Transformation of consciousness
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What are the Qlippoth?
Original post: Master of the Abyss
In what is it going to be different from (better than) "Mörk Magi"?
In what is it going to be different from (better than) "Mörk Magi"?
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What are the Qlippoth?
Original post: Kerethial
I have never read Mork Magi.Even I want to it is in Swedish so far as I recall.
I have never read Mork Magi.Even I want to it is in Swedish so far as I recall.
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What are the Qlippoth?
Original post: Alarum
I am very interested in this subject, Kerethial, would you please PM me when your pdf is published? Thanks. I'm planning a book on Spider Magic, but I need alot more practice and experimentation before I can write it properly!
I am very interested in this subject, Kerethial, would you please PM me when your pdf is published? Thanks. I'm planning a book on Spider Magic, but I need alot more practice and experimentation before I can write it properly!
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What are the Qlippoth?
Original post: Kerethial
[QUOTE=Alarum]I am very interested in this subject, Kerethial, would you please PM me when your pdf is published? Thanks. I'm planning a book on Spider Magic, but I need alot more practice and experimentation before I can write it properly! [/QUOTE]
I will mention it on the occult forums.
[QUOTE=Alarum]I am very interested in this subject, Kerethial, would you please PM me when your pdf is published? Thanks. I'm planning a book on Spider Magic, but I need alot more practice and experimentation before I can write it properly! [/QUOTE]
I will mention it on the occult forums.
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What are the Qlippoth?
Original post: theblackpeacock
wow, that book covers everything doesn't it?
By the way, what's spider magic?
wow, that book covers everything doesn't it?
By the way, what's spider magic?
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What are the Qlippoth?
Original post: Kerethial
Yes the grimoire covers many things although it is not for beginners nor for the white lighters.
Yes the grimoire covers many things although it is not for beginners nor for the white lighters.
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What are the Qlippoth?
Original post: Venus666
spider magic
Ive never heard of this but it actually makes sense. A spider carefully and knowlegably weaves her web in a strategic place and is able to seduce(capture) her pray in the web. Then she takes the insects energies from the inside out.
ha ha ha some spiders like tbe black widow also kill the male of the species after they mate
ha ha ha
spider magic
Ive never heard of this but it actually makes sense. A spider carefully and knowlegably weaves her web in a strategic place and is able to seduce(capture) her pray in the web. Then she takes the insects energies from the inside out.
ha ha ha some spiders like tbe black widow also kill the male of the species after they mate
ha ha ha
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What are the Qlippoth?
Original post: KCh
The qlippoth, according to my understanding, are the gross materials of our everyday. That is, all the things which compose our physical conciousness. Without the Spirit these forms are mere shells of decay, hence all the bad language associated with it.
The qlippoth, according to my understanding, are the gross materials of our everyday. That is, all the things which compose our physical conciousness. Without the Spirit these forms are mere shells of decay, hence all the bad language associated with it.
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What are the Qlippoth?
Original post: m1thr0s
I don't know...good vs bad, spirit vs mind, this vs that...it's all a bunch of diadic bs so far as I can tell...if we assume for the sake of argument that spirit is omnipresent, then there really is no difference between any one thing and any other. In the west we have had a tendency to villify decay despite the fact that we know that nature would stop dead in its tracks without it. This has not been the tendency in the east so much where the cycles of creation and destruction have long been viewed as balanced equals in life as a whole. In any case, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for anyone to demonstrate just exactly where spirit begins or ends...it'll never happen.
m1thr0s
I don't know...good vs bad, spirit vs mind, this vs that...it's all a bunch of diadic bs so far as I can tell...if we assume for the sake of argument that spirit is omnipresent, then there really is no difference between any one thing and any other. In the west we have had a tendency to villify decay despite the fact that we know that nature would stop dead in its tracks without it. This has not been the tendency in the east so much where the cycles of creation and destruction have long been viewed as balanced equals in life as a whole. In any case, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for anyone to demonstrate just exactly where spirit begins or ends...it'll never happen.
m1thr0s
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What are the Qlippoth?
Original post: pmcv
This is SO interesting to me.
Please let me restate that I am not a "Satanist" in any way, and I know I don't belong here, but since I started here on the thread dealing with Gnosticism I have a growing curiousity. I am unsure how to ballance my appoligies for intruding, with my interest to continue to do so :oops: I hope I don't seem intrusive, but I also hope to not seem overly conciliatory
I am absolutely confused by how the Qlippoth have entered into Satanist thought. While I hope I have contributed something dealing with terms like "Abraxas" and "Baphomet" etc., to me this term from post Lurianic Kabbalah has nothing to do with Satanism. We are talking about the "Breaking of the vessels", right? Can some one tell me what this has to do with Satanism?
I was looking at M1thr0s' answer and thinking, "that is Gnostic, there is no good vs evil, blah blah blah"... until he said the part about nature.... because Gnostics could give a crap about "nature". While I feel that I have some concept of where spirit begins and ends (and think I can demonstrate it on a logical level.... off topic), I think I really empathize whith what M1thr0s is saying.
I have a question; Is there an academic study of the origins and beliefs of the various movements of "Satanism"? I have not read any, but I would be interested to do so.
And, if not, would anyone be interested in attempting such a topic? I think such a publication could be very interesting. I would be very willing to do something in partnership with somebody who is also interested in the subject. Just a thought.
PMCV
This is SO interesting to me.
Please let me restate that I am not a "Satanist" in any way, and I know I don't belong here, but since I started here on the thread dealing with Gnosticism I have a growing curiousity. I am unsure how to ballance my appoligies for intruding, with my interest to continue to do so :oops: I hope I don't seem intrusive, but I also hope to not seem overly conciliatory
I am absolutely confused by how the Qlippoth have entered into Satanist thought. While I hope I have contributed something dealing with terms like "Abraxas" and "Baphomet" etc., to me this term from post Lurianic Kabbalah has nothing to do with Satanism. We are talking about the "Breaking of the vessels", right? Can some one tell me what this has to do with Satanism?
I was looking at M1thr0s' answer and thinking, "that is Gnostic, there is no good vs evil, blah blah blah"... until he said the part about nature.... because Gnostics could give a crap about "nature". While I feel that I have some concept of where spirit begins and ends (and think I can demonstrate it on a logical level.... off topic), I think I really empathize whith what M1thr0s is saying.
I have a question; Is there an academic study of the origins and beliefs of the various movements of "Satanism"? I have not read any, but I would be interested to do so.
And, if not, would anyone be interested in attempting such a topic? I think such a publication could be very interesting. I would be very willing to do something in partnership with somebody who is also interested in the subject. Just a thought.
PMCV
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What are the Qlippoth?
Original post: Kerethial
It is logical that satanists are interested in Qliphoth.Casting aside LaVeyan satanists who have little to do with real magic-other satanists of diabolical inclination are very interested to work with the Qliphoth simply because Qliphoth is destruction and darkness and that is somewhat favourable among diabolical satanists And Qliphoth are after all demons and that is something common in satanism But it is not only that Qliphoth have even deep magical value which is proven in works of Kenneth Grant,Michael Bertiaux and Kabbalists like Luria.Even Austin Osman Spare has worked with the Qliphoth there is his drawing which is entitled "Threshold to the Qliphoth drawn for magical conation"
It is logical that satanists are interested in Qliphoth.Casting aside LaVeyan satanists who have little to do with real magic-other satanists of diabolical inclination are very interested to work with the Qliphoth simply because Qliphoth is destruction and darkness and that is somewhat favourable among diabolical satanists
And Qliphoth are after all demons and that is something common in satanism But it is not only that Qliphoth have even deep magical value which is proven in works of Kenneth Grant,Michael Bertiaux and Kabbalists like Luria.Even Austin Osman Spare has worked with the Qliphoth there is his drawing which is entitled "Threshold to the Qliphoth drawn for magical conation"