Original post: m1thr0s
Understood - and it's worth complaining about every now and then for whatever good it may do...there's certainly way too much "boredom" at the bottom of too many posts for my money at least...
m1thr0s
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Original post: ChaosTech
Blasphemy is a tool for seperation, usually from religious concepts.
Take for instance, in a RHP religion, a child grows up and is constantly told that if he/she kills an animal that some super entity called a god will punish them. Because of this the child constantly strives to not harm any animal and in the process is the victim of alot of fear which is limiting in certain situations, in this case.
For instance, a few years later the child is on an airplane and crashes out in the middle of nowhere. Everyone dies save for a few other which are all wounded. They have no food and it's up to the kid to find something to eat in order for everyone to stay alive. It's winter so plants are out of the question so the kid make a spear out of a tree branch and goes looking for an animal. When he find one, he has one of two choices to make. Defy everything he has been taught and SURVIVE, or because of his religious conditioning and the fear it has on him, instead DIE, along with everyone else as well.
In this case the Blasphemy if the child choose to do so, would keep everyone alive, including himself, but would effect the child in one of two ways. He either would feel guilt for his killing, and so revert back to his conditioning, which would lead to numerious psychological problems, weither he felt forgiven or not, and so be limiting, or realize the whole concept is bullshit, and strenghen the childs sense of self and confidece, thus expanding his self, not to mention giving courage for further acts of Blasphemy.
Now imagine if the entire human race was conditioned with such a belief and it came down to human survival as a species by either blasphemizing the belief or becoming extinct.
Blasphemy in the LHP is about expanding one's consciousness by using it as a tool for liberation from conditioned beliefs that reduce a human being status to a mere slave to a higher or higher powers.
But just like it's opposite, Devotion, it can limit one's consciousness as well as expand it, depending on the circumstances. The keyword with either is caution, as the line between courage and stupidity, faith and fanaticism, (dis)belief and dellusion, is a fine one.
Blasphemy is a tool for seperation, usually from religious concepts.
Take for instance, in a RHP religion, a child grows up and is constantly told that if he/she kills an animal that some super entity called a god will punish them. Because of this the child constantly strives to not harm any animal and in the process is the victim of alot of fear which is limiting in certain situations, in this case.
For instance, a few years later the child is on an airplane and crashes out in the middle of nowhere. Everyone dies save for a few other which are all wounded. They have no food and it's up to the kid to find something to eat in order for everyone to stay alive. It's winter so plants are out of the question so the kid make a spear out of a tree branch and goes looking for an animal. When he find one, he has one of two choices to make. Defy everything he has been taught and SURVIVE, or because of his religious conditioning and the fear it has on him, instead DIE, along with everyone else as well.
In this case the Blasphemy if the child choose to do so, would keep everyone alive, including himself, but would effect the child in one of two ways. He either would feel guilt for his killing, and so revert back to his conditioning, which would lead to numerious psychological problems, weither he felt forgiven or not, and so be limiting, or realize the whole concept is bullshit, and strenghen the childs sense of self and confidece, thus expanding his self, not to mention giving courage for further acts of Blasphemy.
Now imagine if the entire human race was conditioned with such a belief and it came down to human survival as a species by either blasphemizing the belief or becoming extinct.
Blasphemy in the LHP is about expanding one's consciousness by using it as a tool for liberation from conditioned beliefs that reduce a human being status to a mere slave to a higher or higher powers.
But just like it's opposite, Devotion, it can limit one's consciousness as well as expand it, depending on the circumstances. The keyword with either is caution, as the line between courage and stupidity, faith and fanaticism, (dis)belief and dellusion, is a fine one.
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Original post: m1thr0s
One of the distinctions I see being outlined in your definition ChaosTech is that of a specific task-orientation in itself. There are different kinds and calibers of Blasphemy as a strategy. At the highest levels are those kinds of Blasphemy which have a focused agenda of some kind - usually survival itself as in your example. At the bottom end of the spectrum there is that which can only really be compared to a kind of whining...sort of a temper tantrum staged against this or that intended target, lacking anything other than a short-term gratification of some kind...not unlike the more artless grades of graffiti and vandalism we find indicative of petty, self-absorbed malcontents among us...
Creative Blasphemy is targeted blasphemy that has the preservation of life or truth at its core on one level or another...where blasphemy can be seen as the only viable solution to Restriction itself in some way. That kind of blasphemy takes real courage...courage to stand alone against the herd...courage to persevere against the odds etc...
The other is what it is...and while it may be a danger as you say, I have never really seen it to very much threaten those for whom the former is their chosen path...they are generally too preoccupied with the accomplishment of some important task or another to succumb to the mental-midgetry of the latter...
m1thr0s
One of the distinctions I see being outlined in your definition ChaosTech is that of a specific task-orientation in itself. There are different kinds and calibers of Blasphemy as a strategy. At the highest levels are those kinds of Blasphemy which have a focused agenda of some kind - usually survival itself as in your example. At the bottom end of the spectrum there is that which can only really be compared to a kind of whining...sort of a temper tantrum staged against this or that intended target, lacking anything other than a short-term gratification of some kind...not unlike the more artless grades of graffiti and vandalism we find indicative of petty, self-absorbed malcontents among us...
Creative Blasphemy is targeted blasphemy that has the preservation of life or truth at its core on one level or another...where blasphemy can be seen as the only viable solution to Restriction itself in some way. That kind of blasphemy takes real courage...courage to stand alone against the herd...courage to persevere against the odds etc...
The other is what it is...and while it may be a danger as you say, I have never really seen it to very much threaten those for whom the former is their chosen path...they are generally too preoccupied with the accomplishment of some important task or another to succumb to the mental-midgetry of the latter...
m1thr0s
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Original post: Horus
[QUOTE=ChaosTech]Take for instance, in a RHP religion, a child grows up and is constantly told that if he/she kills an animal that some super entity called a god will punish them.[/QUOTE]surely you mean "Christian religion". By the commonly accepted Western definition of RHP Thelema, Hinduism, and several others are technically RHP and contain no such nonsense.
edit I write this because I do not consider the types of religions you speak of to be Right Hand Path... more like Do_As_I Say_Give_Me_Your_Money_And_Don't_Ask_Any_Questions_or_I'll_Cut_Off_Your_Hand-Path
[QUOTE=ChaosTech]Take for instance, in a RHP religion, a child grows up and is constantly told that if he/she kills an animal that some super entity called a god will punish them.[/QUOTE]surely you mean "Christian religion". By the commonly accepted Western definition of RHP Thelema, Hinduism, and several others are technically RHP and contain no such nonsense.
edit I write this because I do not consider the types of religions you speak of to be Right Hand Path... more like Do_As_I Say_Give_Me_Your_Money_And_Don't_Ask_Any_Questions_or_I'll_Cut_Off_Your_Hand-Path
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Original post: Trapezoid
[QUOTE=DocHolliday]While I'm not an expert by any means, or even an initite on/into the LHP, it seems that these two points are what have made other groups (such as the ToS) break away from LaVeyan Satanism. There comes a point where random acts of deviance and hedonism would (in my opinion only) cease to mean anythign and only accomplish the denigration of self.[/QUOTE]
Speaking from the standpoint of the ToS, I'd say that antinomianism has it's place, but you need to move beyond that. Antinomianism requires that you acknowledge that there is someone or something higher than you to rebel against. At some point if you're trying to acheive self-deification you have to become the "top of the food chain" so to speak and if you are at the top the only thing you have to rebel against are those beneath you which is really more a form of tyranny than antinomianism.
Xeper,
Magister Eric Kauschen
[QUOTE=DocHolliday]While I'm not an expert by any means, or even an initite on/into the LHP, it seems that these two points are what have made other groups (such as the ToS) break away from LaVeyan Satanism. There comes a point where random acts of deviance and hedonism would (in my opinion only) cease to mean anythign and only accomplish the denigration of self.[/QUOTE]
Speaking from the standpoint of the ToS, I'd say that antinomianism has it's place, but you need to move beyond that. Antinomianism requires that you acknowledge that there is someone or something higher than you to rebel against. At some point if you're trying to acheive self-deification you have to become the "top of the food chain" so to speak and if you are at the top the only thing you have to rebel against are those beneath you which is really more a form of tyranny than antinomianism.
Xeper,
Magister Eric Kauschen
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Original post: die before death
[QUOTE=Trapezoid]Speaking from the standpoint of the ToS, I'd say that antinomianism has it's place, but you need to move beyond that. Antinomianism requires that you acknowledge that there is someone or something higher than you to rebel against. At some point if you're trying to acheive self-deification you have to become the "top of the food chain" so to speak and if you are at the top the only thing you have to rebel against are those beneath you which is really more a form of tyranny than antinomianism.[/QUOTE] Now I get it, because after a while of just being antinomian at a certain point, one is just being a jerk for no good reason.
Antinomianism in the context of being a useful stage for those who come from a society of mental bondage makes sense, but it is only a bump in the road, enjoyable at times as it may be.
I had it in my head that the Left Handed would always have to be fighting against the consensus, but ideally one should be able to alter the consensus itself or render it inconsequential.
Then again, can antinomianism be applied purely on the subjective level where one has to fight against what one thinks is possible? Perhaps it ends in the same result, that after a while of such behavior, ones mind shouldnt be as hard as a muscle to flex, and any argument from there is probably schizophrenia.
[QUOTE=Trapezoid]Speaking from the standpoint of the ToS, I'd say that antinomianism has it's place, but you need to move beyond that. Antinomianism requires that you acknowledge that there is someone or something higher than you to rebel against. At some point if you're trying to acheive self-deification you have to become the "top of the food chain" so to speak and if you are at the top the only thing you have to rebel against are those beneath you which is really more a form of tyranny than antinomianism.[/QUOTE] Now I get it, because after a while of just being antinomian at a certain point, one is just being a jerk for no good reason.
Antinomianism in the context of being a useful stage for those who come from a society of mental bondage makes sense, but it is only a bump in the road, enjoyable at times as it may be.
I had it in my head that the Left Handed would always have to be fighting against the consensus, but ideally one should be able to alter the consensus itself or render it inconsequential.
Then again, can antinomianism be applied purely on the subjective level where one has to fight against what one thinks is possible? Perhaps it ends in the same result, that after a while of such behavior, ones mind shouldnt be as hard as a muscle to flex, and any argument from there is probably schizophrenia.
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Original post: Lotic Trance
So, really, the only logical choice is the LHP, since there can be nothing we do which is out of sync with the Universe. Hence, we might as well become Gods and decide where the Universe goes, yes?
Just seemed... apparent to me all of a sudden. Note: This post came from a former Buddhist.
I realize this is totally backtracking, but this just caught me off guard. Does it seem to anyone else that the goals of the RHP are kind of... pointless? If you're in the Objective Universe -- and we all are -- then you by nature must be in harmony with it, yes? There can be nothing we do which is out of harmony with nature, thanks to physics. The laws of thermodynamics, et al -- these aren't really broken. We may not behave in the healthiest or wisest manners, but we're still in harmony with the OU because it's a closed system which cannot be broken. So, really, no 'understanding' or 'enlightenment' is necessary -- what the hell difference does it make if you Catch The Drift of the OU? The OU doesn't care, and it doesn't make a difference.The right-hand path answers this question simply by saying that the subjective universe must harmonize itself with the laws of the objective universeâ??be that envisioned as God or nature. Humanity is to seek knowledge of the law, and then apply itself to submitting to that law in order to gain ultimate union with the objective universe, with God, or nature. The right-hand path is the path of union with universal reality (God or Nature). When this union is completed the individual self will be annihilated, the individual will become one with the divine or natural cosmic order. In this state the ego is destroyed as "heaven" is entered or a nirvanic existence/non-existence is "attained." This is clearly the goal of all orthodox Judaic/Christian/Islamic or Buddhistic sects.
So, really, the only logical choice is the LHP, since there can be nothing we do which is out of sync with the Universe. Hence, we might as well become Gods and decide where the Universe goes, yes?
Just seemed... apparent to me all of a sudden. Note: This post came from a former Buddhist.
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Original post: T~Gothe
[QUOTE] - The Left-Hand Path involves the conscious attempt to preserve and strengthen one's isolate, psychecentric existence against the objective universe (OU) while apprehending, comprehending, and influencing a varying number of subjective universes.
- The Right-Hand Path involves the conscious attempt to dissolve or merge the self with the Objective Universe.
How does the soul relate with, or interact with, the Objective Universe, or the Universe as a whole?[indent] The right-hand path answers this question simply by saying that the subjective universe must harmonize itself with the laws of the objective universeâ??be that envisioned as God or nature. Humanity is to seek knowledge of the law, and then apply itself to submitting to that law in order to gain ultimate union with the objective universe, with God, or nature. The right-hand path is the path of union with universal reality (God or Nature). When this union is completed the individual self will be annihilated, the individual will become one with the divine or natural cosmic order. In this state the ego is destroyed as "heaven" is entered or a nirvanic existence/non-existence is "attained." This is clearly the goal of all orthodox Judaic/Christian/Islamic or Buddhistic sects.
The left-hand path considers the position of humanity as it is; it takes into account the manifest and deep-seated desire of each human being to be a free, empowered, independent actor within his or her world. The pleasure and pain made possible by independent existence are seen as something to be embraced and as the most reasonable signs of the highest, most noble destiny possible for humans to attainâ??a kind of independent existence on a level usually thought of as divine.â?Â
[QUOTE] - The Left-Hand Path involves the conscious attempt to preserve and strengthen one's isolate, psychecentric existence against the objective universe (OU) while apprehending, comprehending, and influencing a varying number of subjective universes.
- The Right-Hand Path involves the conscious attempt to dissolve or merge the self with the Objective Universe.
How does the soul relate with, or interact with, the Objective Universe, or the Universe as a whole?[indent] The right-hand path answers this question simply by saying that the subjective universe must harmonize itself with the laws of the objective universeâ??be that envisioned as God or nature. Humanity is to seek knowledge of the law, and then apply itself to submitting to that law in order to gain ultimate union with the objective universe, with God, or nature. The right-hand path is the path of union with universal reality (God or Nature). When this union is completed the individual self will be annihilated, the individual will become one with the divine or natural cosmic order. In this state the ego is destroyed as "heaven" is entered or a nirvanic existence/non-existence is "attained." This is clearly the goal of all orthodox Judaic/Christian/Islamic or Buddhistic sects.
The left-hand path considers the position of humanity as it is; it takes into account the manifest and deep-seated desire of each human being to be a free, empowered, independent actor within his or her world. The pleasure and pain made possible by independent existence are seen as something to be embraced and as the most reasonable signs of the highest, most noble destiny possible for humans to attainâ??a kind of independent existence on a level usually thought of as divine.â?Â