Original post: SekhemNefer
Just curious. Can an individual do this, or can this only work as a group effort? I was inspired by the thread about adding koas by screwing up the elections.
I just read on yahoo news that people are starting to commit suicide due to the bad economy. Just thinking which is more feasible, using magick to better the economy. If not, then trying to just plain to trying to use magick to make oneself and one's family wealthy during these tough economic times.
Anyone done any spell work on trying to help out the American, or even Canadian and European financial crises?
Can we will the economy to get better?
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Can we will the economy to get better?
Original post: DrMummy
Possible, but a bad idea.
The market is dying a natural death. Better to just let it run it's course.
Possible, but a bad idea.
The market is dying a natural death. Better to just let it run it's course.
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Can we will the economy to get better?
Original post: Reject Dogma
Mix in a desire to see housing ownership extended to people who shouldn't own houses (for financial or maturity reasons) with 20 years of interest rates sitting below the real rate of inflation, mix in some interesting derivatives that no-one understood how to price or value, rating companies that rated these things which were backed by "liar's loans" as "as safe as currency," and tie in a bunch of industrial/sovereign investors who wanted to maximize gains by investing huge pools of money (so big that mortgage brokers had to keep lowering standards to find enough new people to accept loans) and you've got the housing bubble, which just popped.
Then you've got lots of companies whose debt:equity ratio was way out of whack -- one of those things where you make mad profits while assets are rising in value but risk insolvency if they fall (Lehman was leveraged at 30:1, which meant once their assets dropped in value by 3.33% they were bust and needed to raise more capital some way, and their assets dropped so much that they folded). You've got more like AIG who were getting "free money" to guarantee the soundness of securities that everyone knew were as safe as T-Bills, and round and round we go.
The problem will resolve itself. It'll take a recession, but we'll get there. Putting it off (assuming this is something we could materially affect) would just make the whole thing worse later on. Let housing prices fall. Let people suffer the results of their bad decisions. Let the market lose all of its dead weight so banks can trust that their clients are sound once again and therefore feel free to start lending again.
Well, maybe instead we should say that the market has been quite distorted of late, and needs to reach an equilibrium state again before it can be healthy.The market is dying a natural death. Better to just let it run it's course.
Mix in a desire to see housing ownership extended to people who shouldn't own houses (for financial or maturity reasons) with 20 years of interest rates sitting below the real rate of inflation, mix in some interesting derivatives that no-one understood how to price or value, rating companies that rated these things which were backed by "liar's loans" as "as safe as currency," and tie in a bunch of industrial/sovereign investors who wanted to maximize gains by investing huge pools of money (so big that mortgage brokers had to keep lowering standards to find enough new people to accept loans) and you've got the housing bubble, which just popped.
Then you've got lots of companies whose debt:equity ratio was way out of whack -- one of those things where you make mad profits while assets are rising in value but risk insolvency if they fall (Lehman was leveraged at 30:1, which meant once their assets dropped in value by 3.33% they were bust and needed to raise more capital some way, and their assets dropped so much that they folded). You've got more like AIG who were getting "free money" to guarantee the soundness of securities that everyone knew were as safe as T-Bills, and round and round we go.
The problem will resolve itself. It'll take a recession, but we'll get there. Putting it off (assuming this is something we could materially affect) would just make the whole thing worse later on. Let housing prices fall. Let people suffer the results of their bad decisions. Let the market lose all of its dead weight so banks can trust that their clients are sound once again and therefore feel free to start lending again.
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Can we will the economy to get better?
Original post: QuietJoy
It's a good thing there are people who know what they're talking about, and think things through rationally.
It's a good thing there are people who know what they're talking about, and think things through rationally.
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Can we will the economy to get better?
Original post: peaorganism
I'm not sure.
On one hand,you might say that there are too many variables involved when it comes to these type of things.
Its almost like trying to win a lottery. Too many people willing it in different directions.
So to put it simply ,too many wills involved
On the other hand ,here's a question, How many magis would it actually take to WILL the stock market up a couple of points?
But couldn't we take the stock market as one large egregore& work with it?
Maybe some daily updates, forecasts & predictions.
I'm not sure.
On one hand,you might say that there are too many variables involved when it comes to these type of things.
Its almost like trying to win a lottery. Too many people willing it in different directions.
So to put it simply ,too many wills involved
On the other hand ,here's a question, How many magis would it actually take to WILL the stock market up a couple of points?
But couldn't we take the stock market as one large egregore& work with it?
Maybe some daily updates, forecasts & predictions.
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Can we will the economy to get better?
Original post: blacktombs
Why bother? After all the trouble folks went to to screw it up, it'd be a shame to try and undo such loving work.
Reject Dogma makes good points. The whole thing's a cock-up right now because of willfully greedy short-sighted scalawags. If it can't bring itself back to the shape it was before? Fine, it didn't work out right, so let's try something new.
The right question shouldn't really be to try to fix it. The question we ought to be asking: can we make sure the correct bastards end up getting reamed?
Why bother? After all the trouble folks went to to screw it up, it'd be a shame to try and undo such loving work.
Reject Dogma makes good points. The whole thing's a cock-up right now because of willfully greedy short-sighted scalawags. If it can't bring itself back to the shape it was before? Fine, it didn't work out right, so let's try something new.
The right question shouldn't really be to try to fix it. The question we ought to be asking: can we make sure the correct bastards end up getting reamed?
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Can we will the economy to get better?
Original post: Draginvry
[QUOTE=blacktombs;373273]
The right question shouldn't really be to try to fix it. The question we ought to be asking: can we make sure the correct bastards end up getting reamed?[/QUOTE]
Yes, for the love of God yes.
Don't try to fix the economy without first ousting the bastards that screwed it up in the first place.
[QUOTE=blacktombs;373273]
The right question shouldn't really be to try to fix it. The question we ought to be asking: can we make sure the correct bastards end up getting reamed?[/QUOTE]
Yes, for the love of God yes.
Don't try to fix the economy without first ousting the bastards that screwed it up in the first place.
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Can we will the economy to get better?
Original post: funquie
[QUOTE=Reject Dogma;373190]... and you've got the housing bubble, which just popped. ...[/QUOTE]
You had my complete agreement until the bit about the housing bubble...
All those dubious instruments (PARTICULARLY Credit Default Swaps) are the primary cause of the economic problems, coupled with the fact that EVERY currency on the planet is either tied to the Dollar, or is radically over-valued and under-capitalized. Also, the fact that there is not a single currency left on the planet that is not credit-based, and issued by a central banking system AT INTEREST. This, really is the fundamental problem. Any currency that is not issued by it's government, but rather by privately-held central banks at interest is doomed to fail about every 80-100 years...
This whole mythos of a "housing credit crisis" is just that-a myth. It is a fabrication, dreamed up by the Federal Reserve and the big Central Banks to push the blame for the failing economy on the PEOPLE, rather than let it fall where it really belongs--at the feet of the big central bankers. Individual mortgages are less than 2% of the gross annual revenues of the Financial Industry. Banks like Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, Wachovia, etc, only see homeowners mortgages as a tiny little cupcake in the "bakers case" of financial products. They are a tiny little fraction of the cashflow in that business. If EVERY single mortgage-holder in the US were to go into default today, it would only mean a loss of about 5% of the total revenue for the banking system.
Let me show what that REALLY means. If you rented 20 movies a year, but this year, you decided to only rent 19, that is a 5% loss for Blockbuster on your specific account.
The Dow Industrials often moves up or down over 10% on an AVERAGE day of trading.
And when it comes to mortgages, we're talking about something between 2 and 3% of the total income of the Financial Sector, at least in the US. In most other countries, it is actually lower than this. In some nations, personal mortgages are less than 1/2 of 1 percent of the financial sector.
So don't buy the "housing bubble" myth, or the "credit crisis" myth. The only credit crisis is that our credit-based system is, in fact, DESIGNED to fail every 8-10 decades (which is an engineered re-distribution of wealth away from the middle class and back into the hands of the generationally wealthy...) and we are just now entering into the "redistribution" phase of the cycle, where the middle class, which has been growing for the last 50 years in most nations, is now going to be financially raped, and their hard-earned money is going to be pilfered through inflation, interest, and confiscation of property by the ultra-rich.
If people want to do magick to help the economy, then you need to start with an unbridled assault on the egregores of credit, interest, and fiat currency. You need to fire massively viral servitors which create fast-acting self-destructive psychoses in the minds of these Generational Overlords who have baptised themselves as the "shepherds of Mankind", so that they will start eating their own. You need to stop watching TV (or at least stop watching the news) to keep your mind clear of the brainwashing, fear-mongering, and shock-and-awe programming. You need to send out sigils and servitors to prominent media personalities who are OBVIOUSLY part of this world-wide econo-fascist conspiracy. I'm not going to name names, but if you go down the list of major talking heads in the US, just look for the ones who have attended Yale, Standford, and Princeton, or anyone with connections to Skull and Bones or Manuscript Society.
The REAL story is buried deep. The story you hear on the television and in the papers is just a cover story. What REALLY needs to happen is these large banks all need to FAIL. People will then maybe finally see our fiat currency-based system for the total sham it is, and will FINALLY demand that our government disband and abolish the Federal Reserve System, and go back to a system where the currency actually represented something other than fear, enslavement, and serfdom...
All that stuff that the crazy Bible-Thumping conspiracy podcasters are spewing about the Central Banks and Satanic Ritual Abuse, and the Nephelim is largely just BS. But they are DEAD ON with the financial side of their story. I don't believe all the stuff about the Heads of State being part of some vast Satanic conspiracy to overthrow Chirstianity, but I DO think that a lot of these people are inherantly EVIL, and have been plotting behind the scenes for decades (if not centuries) to abolish the middle class and return the world to a system of Serfdom.
Free your mind, and your ass will follow...
[QUOTE=Reject Dogma;373190]... and you've got the housing bubble, which just popped. ...[/QUOTE]
You had my complete agreement until the bit about the housing bubble...
All those dubious instruments (PARTICULARLY Credit Default Swaps) are the primary cause of the economic problems, coupled with the fact that EVERY currency on the planet is either tied to the Dollar, or is radically over-valued and under-capitalized. Also, the fact that there is not a single currency left on the planet that is not credit-based, and issued by a central banking system AT INTEREST. This, really is the fundamental problem. Any currency that is not issued by it's government, but rather by privately-held central banks at interest is doomed to fail about every 80-100 years...
This whole mythos of a "housing credit crisis" is just that-a myth. It is a fabrication, dreamed up by the Federal Reserve and the big Central Banks to push the blame for the failing economy on the PEOPLE, rather than let it fall where it really belongs--at the feet of the big central bankers. Individual mortgages are less than 2% of the gross annual revenues of the Financial Industry. Banks like Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, Wachovia, etc, only see homeowners mortgages as a tiny little cupcake in the "bakers case" of financial products. They are a tiny little fraction of the cashflow in that business. If EVERY single mortgage-holder in the US were to go into default today, it would only mean a loss of about 5% of the total revenue for the banking system.
Let me show what that REALLY means. If you rented 20 movies a year, but this year, you decided to only rent 19, that is a 5% loss for Blockbuster on your specific account.
The Dow Industrials often moves up or down over 10% on an AVERAGE day of trading.
And when it comes to mortgages, we're talking about something between 2 and 3% of the total income of the Financial Sector, at least in the US. In most other countries, it is actually lower than this. In some nations, personal mortgages are less than 1/2 of 1 percent of the financial sector.
So don't buy the "housing bubble" myth, or the "credit crisis" myth. The only credit crisis is that our credit-based system is, in fact, DESIGNED to fail every 8-10 decades (which is an engineered re-distribution of wealth away from the middle class and back into the hands of the generationally wealthy...) and we are just now entering into the "redistribution" phase of the cycle, where the middle class, which has been growing for the last 50 years in most nations, is now going to be financially raped, and their hard-earned money is going to be pilfered through inflation, interest, and confiscation of property by the ultra-rich.
If people want to do magick to help the economy, then you need to start with an unbridled assault on the egregores of credit, interest, and fiat currency. You need to fire massively viral servitors which create fast-acting self-destructive psychoses in the minds of these Generational Overlords who have baptised themselves as the "shepherds of Mankind", so that they will start eating their own. You need to stop watching TV (or at least stop watching the news) to keep your mind clear of the brainwashing, fear-mongering, and shock-and-awe programming. You need to send out sigils and servitors to prominent media personalities who are OBVIOUSLY part of this world-wide econo-fascist conspiracy. I'm not going to name names, but if you go down the list of major talking heads in the US, just look for the ones who have attended Yale, Standford, and Princeton, or anyone with connections to Skull and Bones or Manuscript Society.
The REAL story is buried deep. The story you hear on the television and in the papers is just a cover story. What REALLY needs to happen is these large banks all need to FAIL. People will then maybe finally see our fiat currency-based system for the total sham it is, and will FINALLY demand that our government disband and abolish the Federal Reserve System, and go back to a system where the currency actually represented something other than fear, enslavement, and serfdom...
All that stuff that the crazy Bible-Thumping conspiracy podcasters are spewing about the Central Banks and Satanic Ritual Abuse, and the Nephelim is largely just BS. But they are DEAD ON with the financial side of their story. I don't believe all the stuff about the Heads of State being part of some vast Satanic conspiracy to overthrow Chirstianity, but I DO think that a lot of these people are inherantly EVIL, and have been plotting behind the scenes for decades (if not centuries) to abolish the middle class and return the world to a system of Serfdom.
Free your mind, and your ass will follow...
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Can we will the economy to get better?
Original post: Reject Dogma
There's something like 60 trillion in mortgage-backed securities out there right now, and there's no way to accurately value them because no-one wants to buy them. Each time someone sells them at a loss though, every holder of these securities has to mark down the value of their assets using the new number, and the whole "assets equals liabilities plus equities" thing means that stockholder equity just took a hit for the write-down (ouch) or you need to borrow money right-fricking-now in a market where no-one wants to lend (double-ouch).
As I see it we have three problems right now:
Now, is the crisis being addressed? I doubt it -- if the Fed/Treasury/FDIC/whoever would just agree to guarantee commercial paper so that if Lehman defaults the lender is made whole again I think that would be enough to get the markets working again (and it likely wouldn't cost the taxpayer all that much), but that's not what we're talking about, at least in the US.
With all that said, this is getting way off topic.
I'm not fan of the Fed, and I'd love to see a currency that meets the definition of 'money' they like to pass out in Econ 101 (both a medium of exchange and a store of value, which you don't get with fiat currencies), but there simply are some fundamental problems with the economy right now.This whole mythos of a "housing credit crisis" is just that-a myth. It is a fabrication, dreamed up by the Federal Reserve and the big Central Banks to push the blame for the failing economy on the PEOPLE, rather than let it fall where it really belongs--at the feet of the big central bankers.
There's something like 60 trillion in mortgage-backed securities out there right now, and there's no way to accurately value them because no-one wants to buy them. Each time someone sells them at a loss though, every holder of these securities has to mark down the value of their assets using the new number, and the whole "assets equals liabilities plus equities" thing means that stockholder equity just took a hit for the write-down (ouch) or you need to borrow money right-fricking-now in a market where no-one wants to lend (double-ouch).
As I see it we have three problems right now:
- Lots of companies have these toxic assets on their balance sheets, and they're going to stay on their balance sheets until a market develops for them. In the mean time, every time one holder of these things sells them at a loss everyone has to mark theirs down by the same amount due to mark-to-market rules. In a lot of cases, this means that we're seeing otherwise healthy companies fail because mark-to-market accounting rules require an immediate markdown of their assets that might not be warranted by an actual, objective appraisal of those assets. They problem is 'market price' plus no real market for these securities.
- The commercial paper market is dead. It used to be that a healthy company could pick up the phone and say "yeah, I need $999,000 dollars now, and I'll pay you back $1,000,000 tomorrow" and it was done -- short term cash for operations was in-hand, employees got paid or whatever, and the lending bank made their interest. Then, a bunch of money market accounts got stuck with Lehman paper when Lehman failed, money market accounts "broke the buck" in that suddenly $0.97 was available for every $1.00 on deposit, and everyone freaked the fuck out. Now no-one wants to loan because there's not enough transparency -- how to you know as a lender that the company you're loaning to isn't actually insolvent due to all this toxic debt and unrecorded credit default swap obligations sitting out there? Well, you don't, so you don't loan. The problem is that modern American business depends on the commercial paper market. Companies like IBM don't keep enough cash on-hand to cover most of a year's worth of expenses -- they carry enough for most of the time and borrow when they need to. Except now they can't because the markets are frozen.
- Lots of companies were over-leveraged, meaning they took on too much debt, and now they're at risk of default. So they're de-leveraging, which means loaning out their money is the last thing on their mind. They're raising capital through other means and paying down their existing loans, or are using their own assets (like cash) to pay down debts so their debt:equity ratio is reasonable again.
Now, is the crisis being addressed? I doubt it -- if the Fed/Treasury/FDIC/whoever would just agree to guarantee commercial paper so that if Lehman defaults the lender is made whole again I think that would be enough to get the markets working again (and it likely wouldn't cost the taxpayer all that much), but that's not what we're talking about, at least in the US.
With all that said, this is getting way off topic.
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Can we will the economy to get better?
Original post: Draginvry
[QUOTE=funquie;373283]
If people want to do magick to help the economy, then you need to start with an unbridled assault on the egregores of credit, interest, and fiat currency.[/QUOTE]
I agree. All of these systems inherently fail because they aren't based on commodity of actual value. You can't spend money that doesn't exist and expect the economy to remain stable. Fiat money has been dubious since its inception. And it was only a matter of time before credit became unsustainable.
[QUOTE=funquie;373283]
If people want to do magick to help the economy, then you need to start with an unbridled assault on the egregores of credit, interest, and fiat currency.[/QUOTE]
I agree. All of these systems inherently fail because they aren't based on commodity of actual value. You can't spend money that doesn't exist and expect the economy to remain stable. Fiat money has been dubious since its inception. And it was only a matter of time before credit became unsustainable.
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Can we will the economy to get better?
Original post: funquie
[QUOTE=Reject Dogma;373332]
There's something like 60 trillion in mortgage-backed securities out there right now, and there's no way to accurately value them because no-one wants to buy them. Each time someone sells them at a loss though, every holder of these securities has to mark down the value of their assets using the new number, and the whole "assets equals liabilities plus equities" thing means that stockholder equity just took a hit for the write-down (ouch) or you need to borrow money right-fricking-now in a market where no-one wants to lend (double-ouch).[/QUOTE]
Don't buy into this mythological figure of 60 Trillion$$$ in mortgage-backed securities. What it REALLY is, is $60 Trillion in mortgage-tied INSTRUMENTS, which is an entirely different creature.
If this figure were actual SECURITIES that were backed by mortgages, that would mean that there was $60 trillion worth of property that was backing some sort of financial instrument. That is what a Security is--an instrument that is SECURED by something tangible.
But what this $60 trillion figure is, is a whole mountain of other, non-secured instruments (primarily Credit Default Swaps) that were created out of thin air in a pyramid scheme fabricated so that the ENTIRE financial sector could get their fingers into the real-estate pie.
What this figure really represents is about $600 billion in actual real property (even at todays devalued prices), but ON TOP of that is another $59.9 TRILLION worth of pyramid-scheme intruments that serve no function other than creating the illusion of money flowing through the markets.
The REAL evil of this scam is that all this so-called wealth that was "created" is imaginary, BUT when the system was exposed for the sham it is and all the cockroaches tried to scurry to the shadows with their newly-stolen "wealth", the rest of the financial sector got scared, because they thought this "wealth" was somehow based on real, tangible valuable things, and in the panic, the whole system locked up like a chihuahua that had just chugged a bottle of Imodium--bug-eyed, shivering, and ready to explode...
Go into ANY large investment house in your area and ask to talk to an advisor. Ask him about CDFs. I guarantee, if he knows anything at all abou thow they work, he will turn white as a ghost and then get all tongue tied as he stammers out some sort of half-assed answer. He (she) will be completely flummoxed that you, an unwashed goy from the private sector, even KNOWS what a CDF is. If your advisor doesn't know what they are, he (she) will just wave off your questions, and tell you that they are not important to know about for the individual investor.
Don't buy the story they are telling in the media. It is all lies. All those talking heads on major news outlets are tools of the very people who created this problem, and are just speaking from a pre-prepared script. There has only been one reporter on CNN that has even DARED to mention CDFs, and I haven't seen her in about a week, since the last time she spoke those powerful words.
I've seen this coming for a decade. That is why I have land in West Virginia, and a stockpile of all the stuff I'll need to get by for at least 6 months. Hopefully I'll never need the "mountain hideaway" option, but it's good to know that I have it if the shit really DOES hit the fan...
[QUOTE=Reject Dogma;373332]
There's something like 60 trillion in mortgage-backed securities out there right now, and there's no way to accurately value them because no-one wants to buy them. Each time someone sells them at a loss though, every holder of these securities has to mark down the value of their assets using the new number, and the whole "assets equals liabilities plus equities" thing means that stockholder equity just took a hit for the write-down (ouch) or you need to borrow money right-fricking-now in a market where no-one wants to lend (double-ouch).[/QUOTE]
Don't buy into this mythological figure of 60 Trillion$$$ in mortgage-backed securities. What it REALLY is, is $60 Trillion in mortgage-tied INSTRUMENTS, which is an entirely different creature.
If this figure were actual SECURITIES that were backed by mortgages, that would mean that there was $60 trillion worth of property that was backing some sort of financial instrument. That is what a Security is--an instrument that is SECURED by something tangible.
But what this $60 trillion figure is, is a whole mountain of other, non-secured instruments (primarily Credit Default Swaps) that were created out of thin air in a pyramid scheme fabricated so that the ENTIRE financial sector could get their fingers into the real-estate pie.
What this figure really represents is about $600 billion in actual real property (even at todays devalued prices), but ON TOP of that is another $59.9 TRILLION worth of pyramid-scheme intruments that serve no function other than creating the illusion of money flowing through the markets.
The REAL evil of this scam is that all this so-called wealth that was "created" is imaginary, BUT when the system was exposed for the sham it is and all the cockroaches tried to scurry to the shadows with their newly-stolen "wealth", the rest of the financial sector got scared, because they thought this "wealth" was somehow based on real, tangible valuable things, and in the panic, the whole system locked up like a chihuahua that had just chugged a bottle of Imodium--bug-eyed, shivering, and ready to explode...
Go into ANY large investment house in your area and ask to talk to an advisor. Ask him about CDFs. I guarantee, if he knows anything at all abou thow they work, he will turn white as a ghost and then get all tongue tied as he stammers out some sort of half-assed answer. He (she) will be completely flummoxed that you, an unwashed goy from the private sector, even KNOWS what a CDF is. If your advisor doesn't know what they are, he (she) will just wave off your questions, and tell you that they are not important to know about for the individual investor.
Don't buy the story they are telling in the media. It is all lies. All those talking heads on major news outlets are tools of the very people who created this problem, and are just speaking from a pre-prepared script. There has only been one reporter on CNN that has even DARED to mention CDFs, and I haven't seen her in about a week, since the last time she spoke those powerful words.
I've seen this coming for a decade. That is why I have land in West Virginia, and a stockpile of all the stuff I'll need to get by for at least 6 months. Hopefully I'll never need the "mountain hideaway" option, but it's good to know that I have it if the shit really DOES hit the fan...
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Can we will the economy to get better?
Original post: blacktombs
It's always good to be ready for the inevitable zombie-- er-- financial apocalypse, funquie.
Anyone else notice that money is itself practically a magical construct? Follow my thinking here, maties. The proverbial "they" have convinced us that something which is essentially worthless is "valuable". It's fancy paper on fancy ink with scribbles to comfort people that no one but they can produce it.
It's a con job on an immense scale, and folk have bought into the cult of money. Literally.
It's always good to be ready for the inevitable zombie-- er-- financial apocalypse, funquie.
Anyone else notice that money is itself practically a magical construct? Follow my thinking here, maties. The proverbial "they" have convinced us that something which is essentially worthless is "valuable". It's fancy paper on fancy ink with scribbles to comfort people that no one but they can produce it.
It's a con job on an immense scale, and folk have bought into the cult of money. Literally.
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Can we will the economy to get better?
Original post: AstralMagickCraft
Heck yeah!
First the put the economy in the market, then they put the market in the economy!
Heck yeah!
First the put the economy in the market, then they put the market in the economy!
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Can we will the economy to get better?
Original post: shadow flame
greed is tricky thing.
more you feed it, more it grows.
and it get's more hungry, thus demanding more food.
until, at end, there will remain nothing but greed itself. then it will start to eat itself.
i'm not going to use my energy to help greed stricken zombies.
[QUOTE=blacktombs;373521]It's always good to be ready for the inevitable zombie-- er-- financial apocalypse, funquie.
Anyone else notice that money is itself practically a magical construct? Follow my thinking here, maties. The proverbial "they" have convinced us that something which is essentially worthless is "valuable". It's fancy paper on fancy ink with scribbles to comfort people that no one but they can produce it.
It's a con job on an immense scale, and folk have bought into the cult of money. Literally.[/QUOTE]
funny thing is that money is abstract, but it is represented by physical things. pieces of fancy metal, papers with nice color, or bunch of electrons running through wires in bank. money does exist, but not on this plane of existence.
greed is tricky thing.
more you feed it, more it grows.
and it get's more hungry, thus demanding more food.
until, at end, there will remain nothing but greed itself. then it will start to eat itself.
i'm not going to use my energy to help greed stricken zombies.
[QUOTE=blacktombs;373521]It's always good to be ready for the inevitable zombie-- er-- financial apocalypse, funquie.
Anyone else notice that money is itself practically a magical construct? Follow my thinking here, maties. The proverbial "they" have convinced us that something which is essentially worthless is "valuable". It's fancy paper on fancy ink with scribbles to comfort people that no one but they can produce it.
It's a con job on an immense scale, and folk have bought into the cult of money. Literally.[/QUOTE]
funny thing is that money is abstract, but it is represented by physical things. pieces of fancy metal, papers with nice color, or bunch of electrons running through wires in bank. money does exist, but not on this plane of existence.
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Can we will the economy to get better?
Original post: SekhemNefer
[QUOTE=blacktombs;373521]It's always good to be ready for the inevitable zombie-- er-- financial apocalypse, funquie.
Anyone else notice that money is itself practically a magical construct? Follow my thinking here, maties. The proverbial "they" have convinced us that something which is essentially worthless is "valuable". It's fancy paper on fancy ink with scribbles to comfort people that no one but they can produce it.
It's a con job on an immense scale, and folk have bought into the cult of money. Literally.[/QUOTE]
Oh, fuck it. Maybe we should do magick in order to save ourselves. I just thought that saving the economy metaphysically would also improve the lives of family, friends and ourselves.
I mean, I really don't care about the welfare of people I don't know and will never know. Just being honest, but our society is a built on a micro- and macro-sociological construct that a freaking ecosystem, eventually whatever happens to everybody else will affect "us" as individuals.
It is called survival of the fittest and I am trying to stop myself being affected by this big mess, especially not caused by me. I mean, I didn't aid this society for being crap right now. I handled my finances properly and never bought what I couldn't afford.
So the question is? How can we come out on top while the world burns?
[QUOTE=blacktombs;373521]It's always good to be ready for the inevitable zombie-- er-- financial apocalypse, funquie.
Anyone else notice that money is itself practically a magical construct? Follow my thinking here, maties. The proverbial "they" have convinced us that something which is essentially worthless is "valuable". It's fancy paper on fancy ink with scribbles to comfort people that no one but they can produce it.
It's a con job on an immense scale, and folk have bought into the cult of money. Literally.[/QUOTE]
Oh, fuck it. Maybe we should do magick in order to save ourselves. I just thought that saving the economy metaphysically would also improve the lives of family, friends and ourselves.
I mean, I really don't care about the welfare of people I don't know and will never know. Just being honest, but our society is a built on a micro- and macro-sociological construct that a freaking ecosystem, eventually whatever happens to everybody else will affect "us" as individuals.
It is called survival of the fittest and I am trying to stop myself being affected by this big mess, especially not caused by me. I mean, I didn't aid this society for being crap right now. I handled my finances properly and never bought what I couldn't afford.
So the question is? How can we come out on top while the world burns?
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Can we will the economy to get better?
Original post: shadow flame
[QUOTE=SekhemNefer;373893] So the question is? How can we come out on top while the world burns?[/QUOTE]
push it totally over the edge, revel in chaos, submerge yourself in it, and remake yourself into God(ess?). that's my plan if this economical crisis goes totally batshit crazy
[QUOTE=SekhemNefer;373893] So the question is? How can we come out on top while the world burns?[/QUOTE]
push it totally over the edge, revel in chaos, submerge yourself in it, and remake yourself into God(ess?). that's my plan if this economical crisis goes totally batshit crazy
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Can we will the economy to get better?
Original post: Draginvry
Hey, it worked for the assholes that got us into this mess. It should work for you, too.
Buy all the fire extinguishers, and then sell them at an exhorbitant price.SekhemNefer;373893 wrote: So the question is? How can we come out on top while the world burns?
Hey, it worked for the assholes that got us into this mess. It should work for you, too.
That's my plan, too. If the crap really does hit the fan, I'm going to be chucking crap around like crazy. No use trying to stay clean if you're surrounded by a mess. You might as well get a little filthy with it.push it totally over the edge, revel in chaos, submerge yourself in it, and remake yourself into God(ess?). that's my plan if this economical crisis goes totally batshit crazy
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Can we will the economy to get better?
Original post: Achreus
To paraphrase James Brown...
I don't get money but I get crazy!
Draginvry;374047 wrote:Buy all the fire extinguishers, and then sell them at an exhorbitant price.
Hey, it worked for the assholes that got us into this mess. It should work for you, too.
That's my plan, too. If the crap really does hit the fan, I'm going to be chucking crap around like crazy. No use trying to stay clean if you're surrounded by a mess. You might as well get a little filthy with it.
To paraphrase James Brown...
I don't get money but I get crazy!
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Can we will the economy to get better?
Original post: SekhemNefer
[QUOTE=Draginvry;374047]Buy all the fire extinguishers, and then sell them at an exhorbitant price.
Hey, it worked for the assholes that got us into this mess. It should work for you, too.
That's my plan, too. If the crap really does hit the fan, I'm going to be chucking crap around like crazy. No use trying to stay clean if you're surrounded by a mess. You might as well get a little filthy with it.[/QUOTE]
And your statements makes me think...are the people who control the economy are occultists themselves. I am not putting down "having intelligence". Intelligent people will always be ahead of the game, but you know, dabbling in the dark arts makes you ahead of the game as well. How are these Capitalist Pigs always surviving.
I wouldn't be surprised that all of the heads of banks, oil companies, etc. are part of some secret cult where they worship the Golden Gnome in the basement of NATO.
[QUOTE=Draginvry;374047]Buy all the fire extinguishers, and then sell them at an exhorbitant price.
Hey, it worked for the assholes that got us into this mess. It should work for you, too.
That's my plan, too. If the crap really does hit the fan, I'm going to be chucking crap around like crazy. No use trying to stay clean if you're surrounded by a mess. You might as well get a little filthy with it.[/QUOTE]
And your statements makes me think...are the people who control the economy are occultists themselves. I am not putting down "having intelligence". Intelligent people will always be ahead of the game, but you know, dabbling in the dark arts makes you ahead of the game as well. How are these Capitalist Pigs always surviving.
I wouldn't be surprised that all of the heads of banks, oil companies, etc. are part of some secret cult where they worship the Golden Gnome in the basement of NATO.
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Can we will the economy to get better?
Original post: funquie
SekhemNefer,
Your presumptions are not far from the truth...
The one part (OK, the ONLy part...) about the "New World Order Conspiracy" that all those Bible-Thumping Fundamentalist Christian nutcases have SPOT-ON correct is exactly what you put forth--that these people--the ones who really control the economies fo the world--all actually DO belong to an evil death cult, and are actively using occultic technologies to control and manipulate the economic, spiritual, cultural, and intellectual development of the general public. Now, the Crazy Christians have the motivations, inspirations, and source of this evil all wrong (they range everywhere from Nephelim to Satanic possession, to evil space aliens, to thinking it's all part of God's Wrath, and is a Sign of the End Times), bu tthey get the general idea right These folks ARE evil, and they ARE manipulating society toward their own evil end, which is the eventual complete enslavement of ALL of humanity, to be used to serve their own little inbred cabal of pseudo-nobility. The Matrix was NOt a fictional movie folks--it was what they call in the Propaganda/PsyOps world "predictive programming".
Now, there are a LOt of these guys who aren't even aware they are occultists--they have had these techniques passed down to them from generations of practitioners in their families, and they see it as so "normal" that it doesn't even seem "occult" to them anymore. You can pretty much bet that EVERY board member of the Federal Reserve system here in the US is part ofthis belief system. The head honchos of the EU too, and the Trilateralists are all practically the High Priests of evil economic Mages.
Look up the videos of the recent testimonies of Richard Fuld (ex-CEO of Lehman Brothers, and Board Member of the New York Federal Reserve Bank) and watch them CLOSELY. This guy has no soul. He is pure, unadulterated, amoral EVIL, and actually seems a little annoyed that the Congress of the USA would even presume to subpoena him. His testimony and demeanor would be funny if he wasn't so obviously and purely evil...
SekhemNefer,
Your presumptions are not far from the truth...
The one part (OK, the ONLy part...) about the "New World Order Conspiracy" that all those Bible-Thumping Fundamentalist Christian nutcases have SPOT-ON correct is exactly what you put forth--that these people--the ones who really control the economies fo the world--all actually DO belong to an evil death cult, and are actively using occultic technologies to control and manipulate the economic, spiritual, cultural, and intellectual development of the general public. Now, the Crazy Christians have the motivations, inspirations, and source of this evil all wrong (they range everywhere from Nephelim to Satanic possession, to evil space aliens, to thinking it's all part of God's Wrath, and is a Sign of the End Times), bu tthey get the general idea right These folks ARE evil, and they ARE manipulating society toward their own evil end, which is the eventual complete enslavement of ALL of humanity, to be used to serve their own little inbred cabal of pseudo-nobility. The Matrix was NOt a fictional movie folks--it was what they call in the Propaganda/PsyOps world "predictive programming".
Now, there are a LOt of these guys who aren't even aware they are occultists--they have had these techniques passed down to them from generations of practitioners in their families, and they see it as so "normal" that it doesn't even seem "occult" to them anymore. You can pretty much bet that EVERY board member of the Federal Reserve system here in the US is part ofthis belief system. The head honchos of the EU too, and the Trilateralists are all practically the High Priests of evil economic Mages.
Look up the videos of the recent testimonies of Richard Fuld (ex-CEO of Lehman Brothers, and Board Member of the New York Federal Reserve Bank) and watch them CLOSELY. This guy has no soul. He is pure, unadulterated, amoral EVIL, and actually seems a little annoyed that the Congress of the USA would even presume to subpoena him. His testimony and demeanor would be funny if he wasn't so obviously and purely evil...
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Can we will the economy to get better?
Original post: SekhemNefer
Is believing in Determinism is part of this cult? Like you were ordained by God/Diety to rule over the masses, because the masses are so stupid that they need your guidance or control?
Is believing in Determinism is part of this cult? Like you were ordained by God/Diety to rule over the masses, because the masses are so stupid that they need your guidance or control?
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Can we will the economy to get better?
Original post: AstralMagickCraft
Determinism?
All you got to believe in is this philosophy.
"If they do want it, I'll take it!"
Determinism?
All you got to believe in is this philosophy.
"If they do want it, I'll take it!"
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Can we will the economy to get better?
Original post: usurparian
Thanks, funquie; its refreshing to see Southerner with this kind of education.
Thanks, funquie; its refreshing to see Southerner with this kind of education.
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Can we will the economy to get better?
Original post: witchhunter
if they do want it ill take it
ya thats a street moral the other night i had a book of rules discussed alot about them and someone wanted them i said if you want them you can have them he said he takes what he wants i repeated what i said he got angry and threw them out the window. so the rules have been thrown out the window technique i dare to play with. anyhow a friend picked them all up and i gave them to a friend to read.
i recond i havent seen that gentlemen for good reason for along time. bad karma struck him in the butt. oh the old favorite what comes around goes around.
in such a technique you need to be prepared in strength to handle such a task on an individual bases.
i lent a spirtual necklace to a prostitute reasently and she hasnt been on the street since because she wants to keep it so she hinds from me. so basically the moral is how do you get a prostitute off the street is to lend her something spirtual
if they do want it ill take it
ya thats a street moral the other night i had a book of rules discussed alot about them and someone wanted them i said if you want them you can have them he said he takes what he wants i repeated what i said he got angry and threw them out the window. so the rules have been thrown out the window technique i dare to play with. anyhow a friend picked them all up and i gave them to a friend to read.
i recond i havent seen that gentlemen for good reason for along time. bad karma struck him in the butt. oh the old favorite what comes around goes around.
in such a technique you need to be prepared in strength to handle such a task on an individual bases.
i lent a spirtual necklace to a prostitute reasently and she hasnt been on the street since because she wants to keep it so she hinds from me. so basically the moral is how do you get a prostitute off the street is to lend her something spirtual
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Can we will the economy to get better?
If it's generally a bad idea to do spells to help the economy, what about doing spells just to help yourself be able to find one of the jobs that's out there and whatnot? Or to help other people stop making the mistakes that are leading to this mess.