where to start ?

w45uk1 · Post by **w45uk1** » Mon May 18, 2009 3:23 pm

Greeting....

my name is wasuki, and I really interested in occult art, but totally blank about it. can someone tell me from where I can start to learn ? thx

DrMummy · Post by **DrMummy** » Tue May 19, 2009 5:09 am

When you begin, there is one major thing you need to remember.

NEVER LEAVE HOME WITHOUT A PROPERLY TUNED BULLSHIT DETECTOR.

You can get it at Astral Wal-Mart Supercenter. It will only cost you your earliest memory...

Seriously though, if something sounds like bullshit, it probably is. If someone says something that makes no sense to you, make a note of it move on. You might find out later what they were really talking about, but generally, they're probably talking out of their ass.

This goes double for astral entities.

Gods, Demons, Angels, Goetia, Spirits, whatever you call them, don't take advice from them. Like anything else, you should take note of what they say, then save it for when it might be useful (if it ever is, which it probably won't be).

Other than that, Magick is an art. This means that you, as an individual, are responsible for making it as unique as yourself. Throw out your spellbooks. (or at least put them away until you learn how to really use them) Build your own spells. Make them simple at first, then elaborate them as you get more ideas.

Learn about the traditions of the past, and you adapt them for use in your life. As an Occultist, you're pretty much free to cherry pick from as many traditions as you like, or just make up your own crazy bullshit.

No one's your boss unless you say so. Therefore, monitor your thoughts, because you can't blame your mistakes on anyone else.

For now, don't try to conjure up elaborate imagery during ritual. Just concentrate on generalized fellings and impressions.

AND REMEMBER TO PROPERLY CARE FOR, AND MAINTAIN YOUR BULLSHIT DETECTOR

Kath · Post by **Kath** » Tue May 19, 2009 11:02 am

DrMummy wrote:When you begin, there is one major thing you need to remember.
This goes double for astral entities.

roflmao
that's beautifully put

I dunno about double though, I'd say that people give them serious a run for their money on coming up with BS.

Then again, my primary source of inspiration, knowledge, & training is from an entity...

hmmm, I'd say that it would be good to identify the major areas of occult study. so as to understand resources in the context of the paradigm they come from. like in psyche 101, you learned about all the major schools of thought in psychology, but you didn't get too terribly deep into any particular branch. I would think that would be a good starting point for the occult as well.

Preconception will be your enemy (almost in counterpoint to DrMummy's post). As you learn things, you will tend to take what you already know, and think of that as your basic "facts" and then when you learn something which comes from a significantly different paradigm, the human tendency would be to scoff. That'll work against you as you learn. But that's not to say that you don't need a BS detector, cuz you definitely do. Just that few things are completely BS, just as few things are completely true. An occult education demands a LOT of discernment, and mingled openmindedness & cynicism. Try to regard all possible resources as food for thought, and try to feed your mind a diverse & balanced diet

also, here are two URL's which I try to share with newbies in the occult:

http://www.necronomi.com/projects/manifesto/

http://www.chaosmatrix.org/library/chao ... model.html

Both are I think very good articles which could be of particular interest to the new practicioner. The first offers a lot of perspective on educating oneself in the occult, the other is more a way of approaching & categorizing different methods & approaches in magic(k).

:edit: actually I find people periodically ask me to teach them magic. Of those, when I show them that first link, 90% never actually read it. Its perhaps a 15-20 minute read. It ends up working as a sort of litmus test, if someone can't read a resource for 20 minutes, then there's not a lot of point trying to teach them, right?

w45uk1 · Post by **w45uk1** » Tue May 19, 2009 3:50 pm

thx for DrMummy and Kath, I'll try to learn the basic first n try to aware of BULLSHit..

DrMummy · Post by **DrMummy** » Wed May 20, 2009 3:11 pm

As your first occult text, I recommend you read the texts of the late Heaven's Gate cult.

There is so much bullshit here, you'll be able to recognize a douchebag from miles away.

Also, if if you can walk away from it having actually learned something useful, you'll be able to pull anything.

http://www.heavensgate.com

Honest_John · Post by **Honest_John** » Fri May 22, 2009 11:50 am

They were packed so tight that they had to laugh ho ho ho instead of hee hee hee

Shaam · Post by **Shaam** » Mon May 25, 2009 4:28 pm

This is an enlightening thread...lol.

The Cove · Post by **The Cove** » Sun May 31, 2009 9:53 pm

I read the first link that Kath posted. Hello again Kath, by the way, your writing's have always been a pleasure to read. It is a good article - it reminded me that I am lazy bastard in so many ways.

But this is not a bad thing, it is good to have ones obvious short comings become obvious to one's self again. I need more discipline to gain more freedom.

jeviscachee · Post by **jeviscachee** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:56 pm

I'd recommend trying to find out if there are any moots/meetings in your area - you might meet people there who share your interests. Finding things shouldn't be hard - there's Facebook, Meetup.com, Yahoo!Groups... all of these have good places to find meetings. Personally, I don't tend to go along to things as i'm very much a solitary practitioner, but i imagine they're a good starting place to see which people and/or paths you feel most comfortable with

Kath · Post by **Kath** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:39 pm

The Cove wrote:I need more discipline to gain more freedom.

mmm, yeah, me too, very much so.

Tigeress · Post by **Tigeress** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:12 pm

Hi there. I'm a student too. My approach to being new was to join as many forums as I could and read as much information as I could, online and from bookshelves. I crammed my computer full of pdf's, which is cool to have, but I soon realized that having a book in your hands feels soooo much better.

Just from reading discussions online between people your bullshit detector will slowly begin tuning, but you do have to remain open minded. One of my good online friends, the first occultist to take me under his wing so to speak, first gave me a looney-tune impression and sent my bs detector a flashing. Then I sat down and broke apart his posts that made no sense and googled the pieces. I put it together and it made perfect sense, and I learned a shit load. Google is your friend. Research everything. My favorite noob book at the moment out of the ones I have read so far is The Black Arts by Richard Cavendish. It is a perfect first book.

Good Luck to you!

EDIT: How in the hell did I randomly get the title of the dam book wrong.... *face palm*

Post by **Venefica** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:22 pm

I would recommend getting a beginners book for whatever path you would like to start with for exsample Don Kreig's Modern Magick and Scott Cunningham's Wicca a Guide to the Solitary Practitioner. And then just starting with the daily work routines presented in that book, and while you are at that join some forums, read websites and read as many books as you can about magick, and when you know more you can expand your practice. But the beginner regimes in such books as I mentioned is really good to get you started.

Mist · Post by **Mist** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:54 pm

Kath and DrMummy have been a great help, thanks!
I am however going to wait a while for practicing anything as I am still unsure at what path I'd like to begin, plus for practical reasons (*cough* Annoying dad and brother *cough*).
There's so many distractions around me that I think it's best just to linger searching things on the internet for a while rather than making an uneasy start at my location.
I do have time to study however, so that's a plus.

Anyway, thanks again!

PS: I cleaned up my old bullshit detector.

Post by **Venefica** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:32 pm

I would actually recommend starting practice, the sooner you get going with it, the sooner you get good at it. And if you have family that you do not want to hear you practice, choose a practice, choose rituals that are either silent, or internal. I love to work with Energy directly, just drawing in Energy and directing it towards a goal, no ritual, no fuss, just Energy.

One of the methods I use is this:

Imagine that you are a large ice crystal, the type that grow inside caves and on large buildings at winter, an ice spear. Think of nothing but being this body of ice. You are the ice and there is nothing else. Then see a bright light above you. The light is so warm, and as it enter you, the ice begins to melt, one droplet at the time. Do not force anything, but with practice you should begin to feel Energy entering your body when you do this. I will not describe how the Energy should feel as that vary from person to person but you will know it when it is there. This is a good method to rise Energy for spellwork, healing or just plain training in handling Energy. It can be quite powerful when you get the hang of it. One inportant thing to master this exercise is to not rush it, but to have patience and let the Energy come in its own good time, and if you do that, come it will. Even if it may take some time and practice.

Once your feel Energy in your system, just visualize you sending it towards a goal. Magick you can not really learn from a book, you have to practice to get good at it.

kiren · Post by **kiren** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:25 pm

Simply by asking the question, you have set yourself upon the path.
But only you can traverse it as the shamans path is his own.
we can offer advise, show you the basics... but putting it all together is your task alone.
There is no roadmap to the path untraveled.

Buena Suerte mi amigo.

sekhem_nefer · Post by **sekhem_nefer** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:02 am

I would say start with Spiritual Satanism ( has nothing to do with Satan really or making the devil a diety) and Chaos Magick....quite frankly, all the rest of school of magicks are nothing but bullshit filled with dogma just as worst has being a Fundamentalist Christian.

You want to free your mind from limitations? Create ethics and morality based on YOUR STANDARDS AND RULES...not of society, religion or some magick school of thought.

Post by **Venefica** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:52 pm

I am not sure I agree. I am a Chaote, but I took some steps first in getting here. I am not sure if Chaos magick is a good place to start. For a beginner it can be hard enough to grasp that there are magick, than to suddenly grasp that there is no reality, all is just a changing mess we create ourself. The stability of a more conventional system I think might benefit the beginner at least at first. Boundaries are not always bad. Starting to practice magick can feel very confusing, no need to add to that confusion by adding Chaos Magick until our newbie have gotten his feet wet.

sekhem_nefer · Post by **sekhem_nefer** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:04 pm

Boundaries are not bad, if they are boundaries coming from your OWN belief system. Last thing a new magician needs is to take on the boundaries created by other people.

Chaos magick is awesome for a beginner. No point in getting all tied down with the hokey-pokey of The God and The Goddess, and Archangels, and tree and fey spirits and blah blah blah.

The sooner a person destroys other people's belief systems and then their own the better. Enochian, Thelemic, Wicca, Witchcraft, etc...avoid...Choas Magick first....Spiritual Satanists second...the others third.

Post by **Venefica** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:28 pm

I do not agree, Chaos Magick is not beginner friendly, the topic is so huge, where is a beginner to start? Better to find a system and a good beginner book to take the first steps, then explore more exotic paths like Chaos Magick. What you are suggesting is like asking someone who have just got a piano to start composing. First one take lessons, then one play the music others have created, then one compose ones own, to do it the other way around only creates a mess.

01010 · Post by **01010** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:27 pm

Hm... I tend to say it really doesnÂ´t matter what you begin with...
sooner or later you will be anyway confronted with doubts, so enjoy your beliefs while you still can, hehe.

Post by **Venefica** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:35 pm

Good point 01010.

sekhem_nefer · Post by **sekhem_nefer** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:46 pm

Venefica wrote:I do not agree, Chaos Magick is not beginner friendly, the topic is so huge, where is a beginner to start? Better to find a system and a good beginner book to take the first steps, then explore more exotic paths like Chaos Magick. What you are suggesting is like asking someone who have just got a piano to start composing. First one take lessons, then one play the music others have created, then one compose ones own, to do it the other way around only creates a mess.

I don't know. To me you are making Chaos Magick too much of a big deal. I felt like I have wasted my time dealing with other forms of magick and should have done Chaos from the start.

I simply don't see Chaos to be that difficult. Enochian, Thelema, Hemetercism is difficult and a pain the ass. Along with Witchcraft, Wicca and whatnot, that forces to make you belief in shit that you don't really care about nor truly believe. Like why in the hell should I be concerned with the God and the Goddess when I don't believe in two freaking dieties in the first place?

Why should I care about archangels and demons when I don't believe they exist.

Chaos magick is perfect for a beginner because you are not obligated to believe in anything except what you want to believe.

Simply, why waste your time with the Tree of Life and giving a damn about Ancient Hebrew and Kabbala ideas mixed with ancient Roman/Greek philosophies from bunch of dudes that dudes who liked to wear hooded capes over their heads from the Medieval times....

Chaos Magick makes sense and it is very simple. All the rest is that Harry Potter over ritualized bullshit for people who have nothing better to do than to make magick some nuclear physicist project with all that mind numbing contrived mysticism.

Post by **Venefica** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:41 pm

I guess it vary from person to person, but the concept of Chaos magick is hard to grasp, hell most other occutlists think we are insane. To me it seams it would be more easy to start with a more clear cut system. I have taken all I learned before I started with Chaos magick with me, and I still use those methods and rituals, I mean what are Chaos magick but collecting allot of different methods that work, and choose what work and ignore what do not regardless of dogma or system?

Along with Witchcraft, Wicca and whatnot, that forces to make you belief in shit that you don't really care about nor truly believe. Like why in the hell should I be concerned with the God and the Goddess when I don't believe in two freaking dieties in the first place?

Witchcraft is not synonymous with religion, to be a witch do not mean that one believe in Gods of any number. Some witches are religious, but not all. Witchcraft is simply practical magick. Often with a nature flavor to it.

Chaos Magick makes sense and it is very simple. All the rest is that Harry Potter over ritualized bullshit for people who have nothing better to do than to make magick some nuclear physicist project with all that mind numbing contrived mysticism.

I like Chaos magick to, but that do not mean I think it is right to insult other paths. In fact, Chaos magick is all about mixing paths, taking what works for the individual, and for some high ritual works, for others traditional witchcraft. if nothing is true, that means nothing is untrue either, we create our own truth, which means that a Ceremonial magician's system is true for him or her, even if it is not true for you.

DrMummy · Post by **DrMummy** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:30 am

The most common mistake made within the meta-paradigm of Chaos magick is the notion that the beliefs are all just interpretations reality is inherently safer than any of those single interpretations.

This is because that idea, in and of itself, is an interpretation. (and therefore, no more safe than anything else)

Post by **Venefica** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:41 am

I did not say safe, I said more easy to grasp.