What you Should Not Expect from Magick

[Shaam]

What You Should Not Expect from Magic
By:
Donald Tyson

Everyone who gets into ritual magic has pretty much the same goal—he or she wants to rule the world. They may not admit it even toThemselves, but they are thinking: Suppose, just suppose, I could learn to hurl lightning bolts from my fingertips, and bring mountains crumbling down, and move the Moon out of its orbit?

Magic has almost a feminine personality. She is very seductive to the newcomer. She taunts and allures with promises of power. She tickles the imagination under the chin with her possibilities.

Every time theSorcerer's' apprentice is about to turn away discouraged, she flips her veil and shows her smile. This is more than enough to keep those Who have an innate talent for magic interested, even when they see Their cherished dreams of world domination receding slowly into the Mist.

Magic is seductive but not unjust. She gives far more than she takes.While she is gently pulling away the gun, she is putting a flower in Its place. Instead of commanding the world, the Magus gradually learns to command personal thoughts and passions. Instead of making others see things his or her way, the Magus begins to see thingsTheir way.

After a while ruling the world ceases to look like such a great idea. Too much work. You should not expect to control others through magic. It is trueThat with properly executed rituals you can bring magical energy to bear on another person and change your relationship to this person in a desired way. However, everyone has a will of their own. Will is like an iceberg, in that only the tip of it shows above the surface of consciousness.

If you magically push someone, they may push back...Hard. They may not even be aware that they are doing it. People who seem very weak physically and emotionally may be very strong on the unconscious level. There is another factor to consider, which I mention only to the intelligent reader, as it is not likely to discourage fools.

When you manipulate other people against their will, no matter what level you do it on, you are debasing your own soul and being far more repulsive and contemptible than you really need to be. If, on the other hand, you behave in an honorable way, you are acting in harmony with your own true nature, and may even find happiness as a result of it. Pushing other people around gives satisfaction, not happiness. Happiness has value, satisfaction does not.

Almost as alluring to the beginner as the promise of personal power is the prospect of limitless wealth. Most people have the idea that if they can master magic they can make themselves rich—otherwise,...... . What is the good of it?

Unscrupulous writers pander to this fantasy by selling books that guarantee instant money through magic, even if you have never done magic before. Magic is not the way to easy money.It is an art that requires discipline and dedication. Most of its rewards are intangible. A greater sense of well-being, increased confidence, a clearer appreciation of the beauty of life, better health physically and mentally—these things magic will give anyone whose heart is open to them. You can make money with magic. Many people do, either by using it to open business opportunities for themselves and help along their careers, or by selling their magical skill to others.

But it is no easier to make money by magic than by any other kind of honest, hard labor. If there is one eternal and unvarying law in this shifting universe, it is that there is no free lunch. Not ever. Not anywhere. The moment you think you are getting something for nothing, that is the time to start backpedaling. The glamour of magic tickles all the vices, and lust is high on the list. Love magic is as old as time.

A line in Virgil's Eclogues Reads: "As this clay hardens, and as this wax melts in one and theSelf-same fire, even so let Daphnis melt with love for me, to others'Love be hard." (Eclogue VIII, ll. 80-1). This is perfectly good magic, but questionable morality. What right has Amaryllis to tell Daphnis who he may and may not love? If she succeeds in binding the love of Daphnis, does she really think he will ever be truly content and happy during their future years together? Is it not more likely that he will end up hating her, even though he cannot leave her?

But perhaps she is thinking only about herself, the glory of conquest,The pride of possession, and does not care whether Daphnis is happy,so long as she has him. Whatever this feeling may be, it would be difficult to characterize it as love, although it usually passes under this name.

You can use magic to find a lover, but this may be done in an intelligent or an unintelligent way. If you are seeking love, you should invite it in a form that is in harmony with your essential nature. First, you may need to use ritual to discover what your nature is. Few people see themselves clearly. Often they are attracted to someone with the qualities they admire but lack in themselves. If you already have a person in mind, you should use the Art to transform yourself and your circumstances so that the other will seek out your company, rather than trying to compel the prospective lover.

Following closely on the heels of power, money, and sex in the list of magical seductions is fame. Who is so callow among us that he or she has not fantasized about taking up the magic wand and performing a wonder here, a miracle there, to the cheering and applause of gathered thousands? Suppose you could save someone terminally ill from cancer—not just anyone, but someone really worthwhile and important. Or suppose you could ignite the Olympic flame at the next Olympic Games with a muttered word of power and a scowl. Imagine the publicity!

Sorry, magic does not work that way. It may have something to do with the fact that magic depends upon belief; or that magic transcendsnatural laws and is therefore unpredictable; or that magic is directed by an awareness in the unconscious called the Higher Self.If we cannot be certain that it has a moral code, at least we can confidently state it has a sense of humor. Whatever the reason,whenever a self-proclaimed "master of the occult arts" publicly performs a miracle, the miracle is absolutely certain to fail. I have a confession to make—I have never levitated, walked on water,restored life to the dead, lit fires with my mind, turned myself into a wolf, or divined a winning lottery number. Maybe this makes me an inferior Magus. There are certainly enough people out there who do claim to be able to perform these wonders. However, I have not seen them do so. Am I willing to say such feats are impossible? Of coursenot; such a statement would be rash. But I have not done them, and have never seen them done. On the other hand, I have done a variety of things that would strike most people as unusual. I have communicated with spirits, for example, in a variety of ways. I do not know precisely what spirits are, but I know that I have talked with and touched a number of them.

Also, I have made myself invisible. This may require a brief explanation. To be magically invisible does not mean other people do not see you; it means that they do not notice you. This is a strange,but at the same time an oddly liberating feeling. Also, I have lef tmy body and looked back upon it—but precisely where I was when I was astrally traveling, or whether I was in any dimension of space atall, is a matter for conjecture. In not one of these personal experiments did I tell a single soulbeforehand what I was going to do. This makes them difficult toverify by the scientific method. However, silence was needed if theywere to have any chance of success. The one way to be certain aritual will fail is to brag about it beforehand to those unconnectedwith its working. In magic silence is not just a matter of discretion, but practical necessity.

..............................

I've had this stuffed away in my files for awhile.

[Mist]

I believe this would be a useful read to those completely new to the subject.
Good chance to consider one's own intentions, and don't forget to leave room for doubt.

"Everyone who gets into ritual magic has pretty much the same goal—he or she wants to rule the world."

I am new to the occult myself (or at least to all it's aspects that are being or have been practiced by other people).
As for the quote, I do not mean to emphasize any kind of egoïsm, narcissism or excessive individuality, but I do not want to rule the world.
Many men have tried to do so, but in the end they died about halfway there, having wasted all the time in their lives on that one pointless goal and having genocide written all over them.
I never imagined that to be my future.

I find of myself that I do not suffer from any of the supposed temptations magic(k) would bring, such as money, sex or fame as stated in the above article.
What I do expect of magick? I cannot tell, for that path seems to be different for everyone.

[Venefica]

I do not agree with many of the points, many occultists have done things very publicly with great results or gotten money and fame through magick. I think it is not so much what should you not expect from magick, as when should you not expect what from magick. I think anything is possible, but the more impressive the magick, the more difficult the spell. Sure you can use magick to become insanely rich, but as there is a limit to the money going around, and so many people wanting it, your will have to sound louder then them all for you to get the money, and that require skill, patience and allot of practice. So expect anything from magick, but expect to have to work until your hands bleed for that power.

[sekhem_nefer]

What You Should Not Expect from Magic
By:
Donald Tyson

Everyone who gets into ritual magic has pretty much the same goal—he or she wants to rule the world. They may not admit it even toThemselves, but they are thinking: Suppose, just suppose, I could learn to hurl lightning bolts from my fingertips, and bring mountains crumbling down, and move the Moon out of its orbit?

Magic has almost a feminine personality. She is very seductive to the newcomer. She taunts and allures with promises of power. She tickles the imagination under the chin with her possibilities.

Every time theSorcerer's' apprentice is about to turn away discouraged, she flips her veil and shows her smile. This is more than enough to keep those Who have an innate talent for magic interested, even when they see Their cherished dreams of world domination receding slowly into the Mist.

Magic is seductive but not unjust. She gives far more than she takes.While she is gently pulling away the gun, she is putting a flower in Its place. Instead of commanding the world, the Magus gradually learns to command personal thoughts and passions. Instead of making others see things his or her way, the Magus begins to see thingsTheir way.

After a while ruling the world ceases to look like such a great idea. Too much work. You should not expect to control others through magic. It is trueThat with properly executed rituals you can bring magical energy to bear on another person and change your relationship to this person in a desired way. However, everyone has a will of their own. Will is like an iceberg, in that only the tip of it shows above the surface of consciousness.

If you magically push someone, they may push back...Hard. They may not even be aware that they are doing it. People who seem very weak physically and emotionally may be very strong on the unconscious level. There is another factor to consider, which I mention only to the intelligent reader, as it is not likely to discourage fools.

When you manipulate other people against their will, no matter what level you do it on, you are debasing your own soul and being far more repulsive and contemptible than you really need to be. If, on the other hand, you behave in an honorable way, you are acting in harmony with your own true nature, and may even find happiness as a result of it. Pushing other people around gives satisfaction, not happiness. Happiness has value, satisfaction does not.

Almost as alluring to the beginner as the promise of personal power is the prospect of limitless wealth. Most people have the idea that if they can master magic they can make themselves rich—otherwise,...... . What is the good of it?

Unscrupulous writers pander to this fantasy by selling books that guarantee instant money through magic, even if you have never done magic before. Magic is not the way to easy money.It is an art that requires discipline and dedication. Most of its rewards are intangible. A greater sense of well-being, increased confidence, a clearer appreciation of the beauty of life, better health physically and mentally—these things magic will give anyone whose heart is open to them. You can make money with magic. Many people do, either by using it to open business opportunities for themselves and help along their careers, or by selling their magical skill to others.

But it is no easier to make money by magic than by any other kind of honest, hard labor. If there is one eternal and unvarying law in this shifting universe, it is that there is no free lunch. Not ever. Not anywhere. The moment you think you are getting something for nothing, that is the time to start backpedaling. The glamour of magic tickles all the vices, and lust is high on the list. Love magic is as old as time.

A line in Virgil's Eclogues Reads: "As this clay hardens, and as this wax melts in one and theSelf-same fire, even so let Daphnis melt with love for me, to others'Love be hard." (Eclogue VIII, ll. 80-1). This is perfectly good magic, but questionable morality. What right has Amaryllis to tell Daphnis who he may and may not love? If she succeeds in binding the love of Daphnis, does she really think he will ever be truly content and happy during their future years together? Is it not more likely that he will end up hating her, even though he cannot leave her?

But perhaps she is thinking only about herself, the glory of conquest,The pride of possession, and does not care whether Daphnis is happy,so long as she has him. Whatever this feeling may be, it would be difficult to characterize it as love, although it usually passes under this name.

You can use magic to find a lover, but this may be done in an intelligent or an unintelligent way. If you are seeking love, you should invite it in a form that is in harmony with your essential nature. First, you may need to use ritual to discover what your nature is. Few people see themselves clearly. Often they are attracted to someone with the qualities they admire but lack in themselves. If you already have a person in mind, you should use the Art to transform yourself and your circumstances so that the other will seek out your company, rather than trying to compel the prospective lover.

Following closely on the heels of power, money, and sex in the list of magical seductions is fame. Who is so callow among us that he or she has not fantasized about taking up the magic wand and performing a wonder here, a miracle there, to the cheering and applause of gathered thousands? Suppose you could save someone terminally ill from cancer—not just anyone, but someone really worthwhile and important. Or suppose you could ignite the Olympic flame at the next Olympic Games with a muttered word of power and a scowl. Imagine the publicity!

Sorry, magic does not work that way. It may have something to do with the fact that magic depends upon belief; or that magic transcendsnatural laws and is therefore unpredictable; or that magic is directed by an awareness in the unconscious called the Higher Self.If we cannot be certain that it has a moral code, at least we can confidently state it has a sense of humor. Whatever the reason,whenever a self-proclaimed "master of the occult arts" publicly performs a miracle, the miracle is absolutely certain to fail. I have a confession to make—I have never levitated, walked on water,restored life to the dead, lit fires with my mind, turned myself into a wolf, or divined a winning lottery number. Maybe this makes me an inferior Magus. There are certainly enough people out there who do claim to be able to perform these wonders. However, I have not seen them do so. Am I willing to say such feats are impossible? Of coursenot; such a statement would be rash. But I have not done them, and have never seen them done. On the other hand, I have done a variety of things that would strike most people as unusual. I have communicated with spirits, for example, in a variety of ways. I do not know precisely what spirits are, but I know that I have talked with and touched a number of them.

Also, I have made myself invisible. This may require a brief explanation. To be magically invisible does not mean other people do not see you; it means that they do not notice you. This is a strange,but at the same time an oddly liberating feeling. Also, I have lef tmy body and looked back upon it—but precisely where I was when I was astrally traveling, or whether I was in any dimension of space atall, is a matter for conjecture. In not one of these personal experiments did I tell a single soulbeforehand what I was going to do. This makes them difficult toverify by the scientific method. However, silence was needed if theywere to have any chance of success. The one way to be certain aritual will fail is to brag about it beforehand to those unconnectedwith its working. In magic silence is not just a matter of discretion, but practical necessity.

..............................

I've had this stuffed away in my files for awhile.

Good god, you have too much dogma in your belief system. Remind me to continue on in not thinking like you.

[Venefica]

There is nothing wrong with structure in one's belief system, it is only dogma if one have not chosen the belief system one self or is trying to force it on others. Or at least that is how I think about it.

[sekhem_nefer]

Yeah, but he is jinxing himself before actually doing the spells. Like the Karma, 2 Folds Law people. Saying stuff is bad for your soul. A man Chaos and Satanist magicians can disagree!

[Venefica]

Perhaps the things he do before a ritual help his magick even if it would hinder yours.

[DrMummy]

Good god, you have too much dogma in your belief system. Remind me to continue on in not thinking like you.

1. Don't quote an entire first post.

2. This is a very reasonable honest article from a person who has obviously been around in the occult for a while. I think you might be missing the point in the first place, being that this person isn't trying to say big, ostentatious magick isn't possible, just that they had never seen it before and are skeptical of anyone claiming to have the ability to do such things without offering proof. They're not trying to say that the spirits we communicate with don't exist, just that we don't really know exactly WHAT they are. We don't know for sure if they have some sort of physical existence in some other universe, or whether they are just our consciousness's interpretation of impersonal evolutionary/physical/psychological forces.

What this person is doing is SMASHING dogma, not building it.

Yes, magick may be a figment of overactive imaginations, but that's not the point.

The point is how how magick affects US. Not how it effects others. The Great Work is a voyage of Self-Discovery. Not a get--rich quick scheme.

If you want money, fame, etc. You MIGHT be able to get it through magick. But if that's all you want, then there are much easier ways to do so.

A strong, healthy inner skeptic is something that every occultist should have. Without it, we tend to become delusional crackpots.

A good sign that your inner skeptic is underused is, if you RAAAAGE at James Randi or Penn & Teller, then you need to examine your own dogma, and figure out why skepticism bothers you so much.

At the very least, it would be a good learning experience.

[Venefica]

The point is how how magick affects US. Not how it effects others. The Great Work is a voyage of Self-Discovery. Not a get--rich quick scheme.

If you want money, fame, etc. You MIGHT be able to get it through magick. But if that's all you want, then there are much easier ways to do so.

I do not fully agree DrMummy, you are describing High Magick and their goals, but not all magicians are into high magick, some are more into the practical side of it, and then magick is all about getting money, healing illness and getting real results in this physical world. Or in other words, not all magicians are doing the Great Work.

[DrMummy]

The point is how how magick affects US. Not how it effects others. The Great Work is a voyage of Self-Discovery. Not a get--rich quick scheme.

If you want money, fame, etc. You MIGHT be able to get it through magick. But if that's all you want, then there are much easier ways to do so.

I do not fully agree DrMummy, you are describing High Magick and their goals, but not all magicians are into high magick, some are more into the practical side of it, and then magick is all about getting money, healing illness and getting real results in this physical world. Or in other words, not all magicians are doing the Great Work.

Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that, if that's all you want, there are much easier ways of going about it. Not to mention the fact that, if you you rely only on magick, then you end up with shit.

If you want things in the corporeal world, it takes corporeal work.

Even if you're not doing the Great Work consciously, it still makes more practical sense to think of magick as an act of self transformation, rather than a way to control the world around you.

This is because whether your trying to influence your own psyche or the psyche of others, you have to define a relationship between your will and whatever it is you're trying to control.

A good example of this is telekinesis.

If you want to move a pencil using telekinesis, you have to figure in everything you can think of. Does how you feel affect your ability? Should I think of the pencil as a noun or a verb? Does the pencil exist?

If all you want to do is write a letter, then you're better off just picking it up and writing with your hands. If you just want a cool parlor trick, you're better off devising some sort of illusion.

However, if you're honestly curious about the relationship between matter and consciousness, attempting telekinesis is a great way to figure out your mind's relationship to the physical world.

I personally think that people who stick only to "practical" magick in order to gain love/lust/fame/wealth are just looking for ways to make them feel better for not having the drive to actually go out and get their will done the old fashioned way.

How can they expect to get what they want using the power of will alone, if they don't even have the will to be able to just get out and do it themselves?

[Venefica]

Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that, if that's all you want, there are much easier ways of going about it. Not to mention the fact that, if you you rely only on magick, then you end up with shit.

If you want things in the corporeal world, it takes corporeal work.

I disagree. I have ended up with things using practical magick I would not have if I had not used such magick. I believe magick is not just a glorified self development tool, but that it can actually affect the world around us in a real and physical way.

Even if you're not doing the Great Work consciously, it still makes more practical sense to think of magick as an act of self transformation, rather than a way to control the world around you.

Perhaps that make more practical sense to you, it do not for me. While I do practice high magick to, my main motivation for practicing magick is to affect change in the world around me, not to develop myself, and the self development I do is often motivated by gaining more precision with my practical magick. Different people have different reasons for practicing magick DrMummy, and for me the motivation is for the most part practical, real world effects, not self development, even if that part is nice to, for me that is a bonus and it is the practical, low magick stuff which is the reason why I practice.

I personally think that people who stick only to "practical" magick in order to gain love/lust/fame/wealth are just looking for ways to make them feel better for not having the drive to actually go out and get their will done the old fashioned way.

How can they expect to get what they want using the power of will alone, if they don't even have the will to be able to just get out and do it themselves?

I think this is a very arrogant and insulting attitude towards those with other motivations for practicing magick than yourself. Honestly I am disappointed. I had expected better from you, your posts on this forum have been very good, but do not fell into the trap of thinking that your way is the only way. So high magick is the motivation for you that do not mean there is something wrong with those who are motivated by the gains of low magick instead. Why is it in the occult that so many seemingly intelligent people can not seam to grasp the concept that not everyone is alike and then respect the choices and motivations and beliefs of others?

[sekhem_nefer]

Good god, you have too much dogma in your belief system. Remind me to continue on in not thinking like you.

1. Don't quote an entire first post.

2. This is a very reasonable honest article from a person who has obviously been around in the occult for a while. I think you might be missing the point in the first place, being that this person isn't trying to say big, ostentatious magick isn't possible, just that they had never seen it before and are skeptical of anyone claiming to have the ability to do such things without offering proof. They're not trying to say that the spirits we communicate with don't exist, just that we don't really know exactly WHAT they are. We don't know for sure if they have some sort of physical existence in some other universe, or whether they are just our consciousness's interpretation of impersonal evolutionary/physical/psychological forces.

What this person is doing is SMASHING dogma, not building it.

Yes, magick may be a figment of overactive imaginations, but that's not the point.

The point is how how magick affects US. Not how it effects others. The Great Work is a voyage of Self-Discovery. Not a get--rich quick scheme.

If you want money, fame, etc. You MIGHT be able to get it through magick. But if that's all you want, then there are much easier ways to do so.

A strong, healthy inner skeptic is something that every occultist should have. Without it, we tend to become delusional crackpots.

A good sign that your inner skeptic is underused is, if you RAAAAGE at James Randi or Penn & Teller, then you need to examine your own dogma, and figure out why skepticism bothers you so much.

At the very least, it would be a good learning experience.

When someone says that something is bad for your soul, they are dogma filled. it is like my father who is pro-Christian who claimed to practice magick and says it is bad for one's soul by allowing the devil to enter you and let demons enter the realm.


I am sorry....nothing is bad for the soul necesarrily unless you have a guilt trip about it. And most likely it is some religious guilt trapped in the back of your mind carried into your study of the metaphysical. If I was to talk my father's advice, then I would be one guilt tripping magician already.

Some people look for an excuse to guilt trip and to find negativity. There are many people are just fine doing what they are doing and ain't tryign to find a heaven and a hell in their magickal journeys.


You are as good with magick as you are as free from a guilty conscious based on dogma. And oddly enough, there are lots of people filled with so much dogma in the Metaphysical lifestyle that I don't know why they bother being metaphysicalists. They ought to be Born Again Christians instead with all the hoo-haa they preach.


The purpose of magick is to bend worlds, existences and realities....you can't do that properly with have religous or spiritual guilty hovering over your head, which limitis your abilities to think beyond the box.

[01010]

In my eyes, magic is effective not because one works it, but because one lets it work...
and to let it work one surely has to be free of dogma, free of attachments,
otherwise one is restricting magic to his personal belief-system...
and with this not seldomly affirming his own illusions.

[Venefica]

Sekhem I can not see that the article by Tyson guilt trips anyone, it is just one man's observations, his personal beliefs that he have written down for people to use or not as they will. If I personally believe that strawberries is bad for the soul, and write an article about it, that is not guilt tripping. Running around like an idiot at malls trying to preach to people pushing my beliefs on them, beware the evil of the strawberries that sort of thing, that might be questionable, but having a belief that is not a problem, and having a dogma is not wrong as long as it is a dogma you choose yourself and that you do not try to push on others.

However, this quote by MrMummy caught my attestation.

A good sign that your inner skeptic is underused is, if you RAAAAGE at James Randi or Penn & Teller, then you need to examine your own dogma, and figure out why skepticism bothers you so much.

I know very few occultists who rage at James Randi for being a septic, however I know quite a few, myself included who get annoyed when some born again Atheist uses Randi's bogus test, yes it is bogus, that have been discussed other places on the forum, and the fact that no one have won it as an excuse to be rude and call anyone who believe something Spiritual for idiots. I dislike preaching, no matter who is doing it, and James Randi is preaching. Being a skeptic I have no problem with, nor with skeptics who express their options. But I do have a problem with skeptics who can not accept that others believe what they do no and then go on a rampage trying to save the poor, stupid, ignorant occultist, religious person or Spiritual person from their own misconception and superstition. I will respect any world view, as long as they respect mine in return.

Now me not thinking to highly of James Randi. I look at him as any other priest who can not let others have their beliefs in peace, have nothing to do with not having an inner skeptic and believing anything without question. Or in other words, me thinking James Randi is a sad little man do not mean that I do not have a healthy bullshit detector.

[VenusSatanas]

Donald Tyson is an occult author for Llewellyn. i wonder what book that was quoted from?

[darkwolf]

While I also disagree with many of the statements in Tyson's post (you *can* use practical magic for gain... there's just the signal-to-noise ratio and the lack of point. As DrMummy rightly points out, why use a spell to gain money when it's just as easy... or tough, to do it the corporeal way?), and found it quite interesting he's an author for Llewelyn (not bad books, just a bit too ritual for my taste, my views on ritual being well known)

Anyway, we all have our own ways, and some of us think other people's ways are wrong. All I say is, Tyson's ways are not my ways, nor, purely are anyone else's. I go my way, and my way is both High and practical. Why restrict yourself, or give yourself crutches?

It is an interesting viewpoint, but that's all it is... a viewpoint.

[Jastiv]

I don't know, it sounds like the kind of writing written by a person who was disappointed that he wasn't a very skilled mage.
I'm not really disappointed by my lack of magic power. Sometimes, I think it would be more trouble than it is worth, particularly if you caused phenomenon to happen and couldn't control it.

[xcb]

I'm with the Satanist on this one. This article is rubbish and Randi is a twat.

[Venefica]

Donald Tyson is an occult author for Llewellyn. i wonder what book that was quoted from?

He did not say the occult do not work, he said there is a limit to what it can do. I do not agree with him on that, but many occultists feel that way. What do it matter if he is an occult writer. Not all occultists believe magick has no limits and many advocate a more down to earth rational approach.

[Rikoshi]

I remember reading a bit of the book this came from- something with Ceremonial or High in the title I think?

It's not a universal truth, though certainly true for some. I had and may still have some megalomania going for me, but I don't try to go one way with magic. Is it about self transformation or controlling the world? Stupid question, it's obviously both of those and neither at the same time. The question frames itself to corral the reader, and it's a trap to fall into. To reach spiritual insight and greater power, try not to let yourself be contained by boxes not of one's own choosing.

Can things be bad for the soul? Maybe. They can certainly be bad for one's sanity, the world one lives in, the universe at large. If we're all connected in some fashion, with each other and the world, shit on the world enough and you shit on yourself. Figuring most likely we're all only kinda sorta connected, you probably only kinda sorta shit on yourself, so a little bit of do whatever the fuck you want won't hurt you too much- just don't go overboard.

Oh, and James Randi? Hate him. His test is set up in such a fashion that it does not matter whether or not you perform said action- if he can find a way you COULD have faked it, it was faked, and all costs are put upon the contestants. His percentages go far beyond the realm we use for scientific validity- if we were to use his tests in science, it's very likely there would be a good deal of medicines, bio-molecular interactions, etc. that would be disproved for not being quite as regular as he would like. Top it off, he's a magician- the James Randi challenge is just another finely crafted illusion to fool his audience.

[Venefica]

The problem with James Randi is that he have set up an impossible test, and then he and his follower go around saying see, there is no magick as no one have beat the test. The trust is far as I know no one have ever done the test as it is set up ridiculously. It definitely is set up as an illusion to give credence to his views. It is like saying see, cats do not like whipped cream and everyone who says otherwise is a hoax, I have put a bowl of whipped cream in a room full of cats and none of them have touched it, and then forget to mention that there is put a lid on the whipped cream bowl so none of the cats could get to it. The test is the hoax however, put up to be a atheist golden calf they can point at and say, see we are right.

A. The candidate have to pay for all expenses when it comes to the test, laboratory time, theoreticians, equipment, everything. Anyone who have ever tried to get any lab work done know that this can get VERY expensive, at least if one is to have the level of accuracy and excellence Randi demands. Now the main point of this test is that there is nothing supernatural as after all if some had magickal abilities they would just waltz in and claim the 1 million dollars, well to do the test one also have to have enough cash to be able to pay for it, which mean that one is probably already rich, and then what is the point.

B. Randi decides who get to do the test. It is not fair in any way, you can not say see here is the money for the test, run the rest please, oh no, if Randi think the candidate's claims is to outrageous, or dangerous or he just plain do not like the face of the candidate then no test. This mean most of those who claim to have the very measurable abilities which can be easily proven in a lab is a no go.

C. Randi and only Randi decides when he is satisfied, there is no clause forcing him to ever acknowledge that the candidate was successful. The candidate can cast spells like a sorcerer right out of D&D and summon demons to tap dance across the laboratory floor in plain sight of the camera and Randi can just continue to order more and more tests until the candidate fails on something or runs out of money. If Randi just want to challenge to stand unbeaten as "proof" for his cause he can just keep this up indefinitely and just never accept that someone have done well enough.

D. The candidate can not be anonymous. If the candidate should pass the test and win the 1 million dollars, Randi get to publish data about the test anywhere he want using the candidate's full name. Now if you think about it, would you really want to have your face all over the news as the one who beat Randi's test. I mean one thing is to talk about magick on a forum, or even be open about it around mundanes, but to have proven your abilities for the whole world to see, the candidate would never be left alone again, pepole desperate for a miracle, those believing he or she was evil, hopeful potential students and those just curious would swarm the candidate day and night. It would be instant fame, and unlike what it might seam like on Big Brother and other reality TV shows, not everyone in this world desires to be famous, and occultists are often very private pepole.

Ok so to have a winner of this challenge we need the following, someone with repeatable, measurable abilities aka someone who could produce the same result again and again without fail and that result have to be something modern science can measure, however it have to be something believable and not to outlandish or you will not even get to try, and it have to be safe, if your abilities can be dangerous for yourself or others you do not get to try.

Now this person with just the right kind of abilities have to then have enough money to pay for the test, and we are not just talking a few thousand here, such tests can be extremely expensive, so we need a rich person, with exactly the right kind of abilities who still want to do hoops in a laboratory to amuse a gang of skeptics for 1 million dollars.

Now let us say we find this, then that person have to always be willing to have their name plastered all over publications and the news and become a instant celebrity as the one who beat Randi's test. So we need a rich occultist with not to vague and not to outlandish and very safe abilities who so desire to prove her abilities that she is also willing to do test after test for not that much gain once we subtract the cost of the testing. This person also have to desire to be famous and accept that they will forever after be in the public eye as well as be willing to attract admiration and ire and by most of the world just be considered a freak. That is the kind of person you need to pass Randi's test, and let me tell you I do not think there are many pepole who fit that description.

And that is assuming Randi plays fair and will let someone win his test and not just ignore the results and call for more and more tests until the candidate can no longer pay for them. I do not think anyone will ever pass Randi's test. I am however a big believer in magick. The test is set up for pepole to fail by a sorry twit of a man who can not accept that others believe differently than him.

[The Cove]

One can expect everything of Magic - but one must realize the inherent power behind most people's expectations is rather shallow. Part of understanding, in general, is knowing the intent of ones will profoundly.

By this action comes a paradox of sorts - you discover your true will and hence gain a sort of 'power' - but by doing so - you destroy the illusion of expectations you had in the first place.

This is a broad statement and should not be considered anything more than a floating observation.

[thief_and_a_liar]

This article of Tyson must have been written early in his writing career. If not, the article itself proves that he is not a magician at all. But other stuff I have read by him proves he does know stuff, so I think the article is old and outdated.

-thief

[daemon_tamer]

Simply, thank you for the content of this post. Brilliantly done.
-MDF

[Kath]

I "kinda liked" the essay.

I do not agree with all of it, and others have already discussed some of the reasons why I don't.
His words in this paragraph particularly:

When you manipulate other people against their will, no matter what level you do it on, you are debasing your own soul and being far more repulsive and contemptible than you really need to be. If, on the other hand, you behave in an honorable way, you are acting in harmony with your own true nature, and may even find happiness as a result of it. Pushing other people around gives satisfaction, not happiness. Happiness has value, satisfaction does not.

were I think kinda preachy, and lacking in technical accuracy.
In a way I can appreciate his intent in that paragraph.
I could write a paragraph warning about the pitfalls of manipulating others against their will... as there are pitfalls ...but it would be quite different in content, rationales, etc. And I don't really buy into the 'debasing your soul' concept. It's quite presumptuous to assert that every being's truest nature is in agreement with one's own moral beliefs. That paragraph could have been handled better. Though I must admit, his simplistic outlook might be easier for a novice to grasp, my version would be a bit esoterically deep.

And yeah, one really can use magic for mundane gains. I'm more a 'great work' oriented person, I'd squat in a mud hut the rest of my years if it would bring me closer to my spiritual/magical goals. And I consider the things most people long for to be transient and dull. But I mean, technically, yeah, one could use magick for 'worldly gain', definitely.

But there is a level of honesty, insomuch as he is being rather introspective and honest with himself, to the full extent of his knowledge and understanding (at the time of writing). I don't dislike the article. Actually I rather like it. Personally, I almost never agree with any magical writing of any length "100%", and I frequently agree with less than 50% of a writing. So, I don't feel like I have to completely agree with the essay to basically 'like' it. I'd revise it quite heavily if it were my essay, and change a fair number of things. But I basically found it a decent read with some decent ideas put forth.

Ultimately I think that after a long time in the occult, you stop having a single paradigm. And you can think a dozen different ideas at once, which all wildly contradict each other, without having a sworn favorite. When that sort of paradigmatic flexibility is reached, then it's less about disagreeing with someone, and more about agreeing with them but only within the context of a limited branch of your larger holistic metaparadigm. So you can simultaneously nod in agreement, and disagree, even over the same single comment. In that sense, the only bits of the essay that I really do completely disagree with, are the bits which make broad sweeping absolute assertions. And there's not a ton of those, so I don't disagree a ton