Hi,
I am back once more. And I have a question with me.
Basically this one results from my "normal life" and the usual thinking of if and how I could/should use anything I know about magic to solve some of the BS that I get confronted with.
Note: This is a real situation I have *right now*.
A Chinese friend of me just send me a message, which basically says, that she wants to die (no emo style whining). Reason? Her "wonderful" parents get through with a arranged marriage. Basic deal, rich guy marries poor girl... happy parents as a result.
Now there was talk about this already before. So she did sell most of her valuable stuff to run away. Now this did not work out and the wedding is planned.
Pretty serious situation, cause her parents are not so fluffy to care about her own daughters happiness ("who cares, she gets a rich guy!").
My first reflex today was the wish to shoot someone (guess who), but then I thought, I can ask this wonderful forum, what *you* would do, if you were in my shoes, pants and shirt.
Shotgun rage? Death spell? Heavy cursing? Telling yourself all will be okay? Go and cry?
I have no final verdict what I will do, yet....but so I can pose the old "ethical question" once more: How far could and would you go kicking someones ass by magic, if other people (or yourself) are involved?
PS: Before someone asks this: This is about my friend, not my gf or anything. I am not jealous, but was asked for help (though not by magic).
What to do or not to do- ye old ethical question
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Frater_Malkuth
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- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:00 am
What to do or not to do- ye old ethical question
Bakeneko,
Definately sounds like a horrible situation for this girl. I see that you want to help, but I really don't think this is a situation where magick can be of much help, atleast as far as curses, death spells or what not.
Some questions if you don't mind, I gather her parents are either still in China or "fresh off the boat". Was she born in this country or is she here on a student visa? I feel the problem is actually cultural. Her parents may feel that the best for her is to marry a rich man so she can be taken care of. The parents may also have selfish motivations and expecting her to play the roll of the "good daughter".
Who exactly would you then be cursing? It's not the rich guys fault, he might be feeling the same way and upset with his parents for the whole arraingement. Do you curse the parents? The arraingement has been made, so what will that accomplish? Making the parents change their mind? Highly doubtful since you are also dealing with the parents culture and beliefs. If we were of their culture we might have more insight into arrainged marriages and may actually see some benefit. Also you would be trying to change a firm and long standing belief in two people, that's not going to happen over night or within even six months.
What you can do is be supportive of her and be there for her. Help her through this tough time.
Definately sounds like a horrible situation for this girl. I see that you want to help, but I really don't think this is a situation where magick can be of much help, atleast as far as curses, death spells or what not.
Some questions if you don't mind, I gather her parents are either still in China or "fresh off the boat". Was she born in this country or is she here on a student visa? I feel the problem is actually cultural. Her parents may feel that the best for her is to marry a rich man so she can be taken care of. The parents may also have selfish motivations and expecting her to play the roll of the "good daughter".
Who exactly would you then be cursing? It's not the rich guys fault, he might be feeling the same way and upset with his parents for the whole arraingement. Do you curse the parents? The arraingement has been made, so what will that accomplish? Making the parents change their mind? Highly doubtful since you are also dealing with the parents culture and beliefs. If we were of their culture we might have more insight into arrainged marriages and may actually see some benefit. Also you would be trying to change a firm and long standing belief in two people, that's not going to happen over night or within even six months.
What you can do is be supportive of her and be there for her. Help her through this tough time.
What to do or not to do- ye old ethical question
Frater_Malkuth is right, whatever happens, it is best to be there for her and help her through this.
My personal advise would be that she openly keeps refusing to coöperate with the arranged marriage. It will most likely lead to a conflict with her parents, but as long as she never agrees to marry the guy, the two of them can never be really married.
She should never sign anything unless she read it thoroughly and agrees with it.
A serious conversation with her parents is recommended, though it is highly doubtful that they will change their mind.
Don't run away unless you are 100% sure you have a good place to run away to, or you could be spending all day and night finding a place to sleep.
There are numerous ways of avoiding such an arranged marriage (sue the parents, for example, but that would be if things really get bad...) without the use of magic(k), but if you feel like you must, I would suggest a manner of manipulating their minds in order to make them change their opinion about the arranged marriage. This, preferrably, after you had a serious conversation with them about it, so the words are still fresh in their mind, so to speak.
In this way you might not have to deal with eventual feelings of regret of harming them.
Also, should you use magic(k) to harm them, non-lethally, I doubt they would change their minds unless you threaten them with more pain if they didn't stop asking about the arranged marriage, thus it would make it public that you harmed them... and that's bad.
Personally, I have never attempted such a kind of magic(k) (manipulation of the mind), so I'm afraid that I could not help you there.
Hope I helped in some way, or at least gave you an idea.
My personal advise would be that she openly keeps refusing to coöperate with the arranged marriage. It will most likely lead to a conflict with her parents, but as long as she never agrees to marry the guy, the two of them can never be really married.
She should never sign anything unless she read it thoroughly and agrees with it.
A serious conversation with her parents is recommended, though it is highly doubtful that they will change their mind.
Don't run away unless you are 100% sure you have a good place to run away to, or you could be spending all day and night finding a place to sleep.
There are numerous ways of avoiding such an arranged marriage (sue the parents, for example, but that would be if things really get bad...) without the use of magic(k), but if you feel like you must, I would suggest a manner of manipulating their minds in order to make them change their opinion about the arranged marriage. This, preferrably, after you had a serious conversation with them about it, so the words are still fresh in their mind, so to speak.
In this way you might not have to deal with eventual feelings of regret of harming them.
Also, should you use magic(k) to harm them, non-lethally, I doubt they would change their minds unless you threaten them with more pain if they didn't stop asking about the arranged marriage, thus it would make it public that you harmed them... and that's bad.
Personally, I have never attempted such a kind of magic(k) (manipulation of the mind), so I'm afraid that I could not help you there.
Hope I helped in some way, or at least gave you an idea.
Don't try to reason with your heart
or feel with your mind.
For just as the heart knows no logic,
the mind can't lead you to your soul.
or feel with your mind.
For just as the heart knows no logic,
the mind can't lead you to your soul.
What to do or not to do- ye old ethical question
Thanks for the comment folks 
Well, let's say a lot of stuff went through my head since I wrote this. The actual problem seems to be I hardly can do much stuff on the physical plane (besides rather childish things).
Frater Malkuth: She is born in Hong Kong, where her parents live, but she lived mostly in other (more "western" countries).
There is a longer story behind the "great idea" her parents had, which I do not want to post here, but rather cool calculation comes also finally into play. The proposed guy is the son of a business partner. Need I say more?
And no, he is not forced a bit. Actually I rather have a feeling that he has been fueling the way events went recently.
Meanwhile I got some news how the guy is behaving recently, already before the so called marriage took place. And from this I got no fluffy-pink thoughts for him (now you know at who possible curses would be directed at). There is also no cultural misunderstanding from his side, cause he was not raised in China.
I support her already the best I am able to; and try to find some mundane solution, while I do some positive spells for this situation.
Mist:
She gets major pressure from her family, maybe much more than she dares to tell me.
Serious conversations did yield no positive results.
Sueing and other things are out of the question right now, cause she is out of money (if she were not, she already would be at another place).
If you guys wish for more detailed infos, pls PM me, I don' want to write it all in public.
Well, let's say a lot of stuff went through my head since I wrote this. The actual problem seems to be I hardly can do much stuff on the physical plane (besides rather childish things).
Frater Malkuth: She is born in Hong Kong, where her parents live, but she lived mostly in other (more "western" countries).
There is a longer story behind the "great idea" her parents had, which I do not want to post here, but rather cool calculation comes also finally into play. The proposed guy is the son of a business partner. Need I say more?
And no, he is not forced a bit. Actually I rather have a feeling that he has been fueling the way events went recently.
Meanwhile I got some news how the guy is behaving recently, already before the so called marriage took place. And from this I got no fluffy-pink thoughts for him (now you know at who possible curses would be directed at). There is also no cultural misunderstanding from his side, cause he was not raised in China.
I support her already the best I am able to; and try to find some mundane solution, while I do some positive spells for this situation.
Mist:
She gets major pressure from her family, maybe much more than she dares to tell me.
Serious conversations did yield no positive results.
Sueing and other things are out of the question right now, cause she is out of money (if she were not, she already would be at another place).
If you guys wish for more detailed infos, pls PM me, I don' want to write it all in public.
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Frater_Malkuth
- Initiated
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- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:00 am
What to do or not to do- ye old ethical question
Bakeneko,
Ok that sure spells out the situation. I guess being there for her and supporting her is the best you could do. In a pinch I guess spells that help reveal what that guy really is to the public.
As a non-serious answer, you guys ever think of heading off to Vegas and getting hitched? That would sure stop this whole thing cold.
Ok that sure spells out the situation. I guess being there for her and supporting her is the best you could do. In a pinch I guess spells that help reveal what that guy really is to the public.
As a non-serious answer, you guys ever think of heading off to Vegas and getting hitched? That would sure stop this whole thing cold.
What to do or not to do- ye old ethical question
I support her the best I can. But it seems the wedding will just happen. Her mother even had the nerve to come up with things like if it does not go well, there is still the possibility of divorce. But given how such things are then usually going, this is a bunch of crap.
I already had a big bunch of diverse ideas. Vegas not being among them though. The big problem for all this is that we both are basically broke right now (yeah, this makes me somewhat upset).
I already had a big bunch of diverse ideas. Vegas not being among them though. The big problem for all this is that we both are basically broke right now (yeah, this makes me somewhat upset).
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Dragon Lady
- Neophyte
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- Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:35 am
What to do or not to do- ye old ethical question
This is definitely a difficult situation. I've not found magick to be of great use in changing people's mind after they've already made up their mind on something. I'm not saying it's impossible, just beyond anything I've been able to accomplish.
Cursing the prospective husband is a possibility, but it's also crude and rather overly dramatic. It seems unlikely that anything short of death or serious injury would change the situation, but if you're willing to accept such a result then you might consider sending a servitor (or conjured spirit, or whatever) to target him while driving. A little bad luck and a moment of distraction under the right circumstances can mean a bad car accident, injury, and even death. Of course, collateral damage is rather probable as well.
The wedding plans also present themselves as a viable target. Any big production is fraught with opportunities for minor disasters to temporarily derail the process, and perhaps if things keep going wrong. Then again, it seems like it'd take quite a bit to derail a wedding. It's not a subject which I really know much about.
A third option would be to try to engineer distrust between your friend's parents and her fiance's parents. I don't know how close they are, but a breakdown in relations would likely prevent the wedding.
Cursing the prospective husband is a possibility, but it's also crude and rather overly dramatic. It seems unlikely that anything short of death or serious injury would change the situation, but if you're willing to accept such a result then you might consider sending a servitor (or conjured spirit, or whatever) to target him while driving. A little bad luck and a moment of distraction under the right circumstances can mean a bad car accident, injury, and even death. Of course, collateral damage is rather probable as well.
The wedding plans also present themselves as a viable target. Any big production is fraught with opportunities for minor disasters to temporarily derail the process, and perhaps if things keep going wrong. Then again, it seems like it'd take quite a bit to derail a wedding. It's not a subject which I really know much about.
A third option would be to try to engineer distrust between your friend's parents and her fiance's parents. I don't know how close they are, but a breakdown in relations would likely prevent the wedding.
What to do or not to do- ye old ethical question
Ultimately, when the priest or justice of the peace or whatever they use ask a question during the marriage which both people are expected to say "I do" to... she should say "f3c% no!" instead, and then she won't be married.
of course she could end up homeless & broke by doing this... ultimately regardless of the fact that her parents may be greedy soulless bastards, nobody owes her a free lunch, so, in order to have true self autonomy, she must find a way to provide for herself.
of course she could end up homeless & broke by doing this... ultimately regardless of the fact that her parents may be greedy soulless bastards, nobody owes her a free lunch, so, in order to have true self autonomy, she must find a way to provide for herself.
‘????????? -
?? ????Audaces fortuna iuvat
?What to do or not to do- ye old ethical question
Pretty much all of these replies are pretty good, IMO, I just wanted to add in one more idea: you could try a spell to strengthen her resolve, so that she won't cave to her parents, if you think the pressure might get to her.
And of course, be there to support her as much as you can.
And of course, be there to support her as much as you can.
A difference that makes no difference, is no difference.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
Hail Eris!
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
Hail Eris!