Politics and magic

[Philoneus Bosch]

I have always believed and have always taught others that although your political beliefs are your own business that you should not use your knowledge of the occult to try and influence the political world, that magicians are essentially a-political and maintain an attitude of professional dissociation (is that the correct term?) from the world around them. What is your opinion?

[Rikoshi]

I think it's garbage. People disengage politics because it's a ridiculous mess- it's a big system and without looking into it in depth, people can only sort of go on instinct or what feels right. The bad point of that is that feelings are manipulated by all political parties. Politicians tend toward some level of occlusion if not outright deception. So... who is right? Who is wrong? And why should we care?

It's people. If we were Priests of the modern stripe, people who dole out spirituality without having any reason to experience it as ancient shamans did, we would of course stay mostly out of it- as the priest is generally a tamed spiritual leader. But if we are mages, shamans, the spiritual workers of mankind, those meant to deal with higher reality, then our actions cannot be limited if we know better. A shaman serves the people.

You can't really know without doing research into the actual matters involved. I try to see a law for what it is, it's effects and words. We currently have a big health care bill in America. It was voted through by a majority, but only after a special action to break a filibuster. This has upset many people.

People think it's taking over education, because it might increase Student grants- but it doesn't actually give the government any more control over college.

People think it's destroying the free market by putting rules on insurance companies- but the companies have not been 'delivering' on their product, instead worming around. They need regulations to stop this. They are also not at this time competing with a public option.

So, what people think and are told by political pundits often varies from the reality of the situation- I actually downloaded the bill so I could skim through it to find out about issues people were concerned about. Usually, the conservative view was conjecture, not actually based in legislation.

Should we use magic to effect politics? I would say not, but if we want people to better, to be enlightened, a promotion of fact over feeling is a necessity. While intuition is a fine faculty, it is ruinous when employed without some reason. One at a time, I have no problem educating anyone on an issue.

[Philoneus Bosch]

I agree that people disengage from politics because it is such a mess and I must admit that wherever one sees a blatant injustice then I feel that we have a duty to right that wrong,but the point I had in mind is that magic is non political as a subject and that you dont have to be a conservative to practice say Enochia, also that the spiritual aspect of life supercedes that of our political life. I'm not saying that we shouldnt vote, I just think that we shouldnt employ privileged knowledge to influence the scumbags in the Government.Also where I used the term 'professional dissociation' I in no way advocate removing yourself from everyday life, I should have clarified that at the time.We all need to interact with the world around us to some degree and the only time we as practitioners should isolate ourselves is when we go into a spiritual retreat or in the preparation stage of a ritual.That a shaman serves the people I cannot argue with, without the people to serve the shaman is only serving their own interests and have always acted as an intercessor between the tribe and the otherworld in whatever way you see it.All in all I broadly agree with you.I also feel that the modern priesthood does advocate a general non-involvement, which is counterintuitve because humans are essentially political animals whether it be self interest, the interests of the family or the greater family of nations and the human race we all in one way or another militate for our own interests.
You made a good point when you say that if we want people to (do?) better, to be enlightened, a promotion of fact over feeling is a necessity, and we can do that by leading by example or by sneaking the relevant bits of our philosophies into the outer world,however what makes you think that we know better? Not everybody either wants or needs our help and we have no right to impose our beliefs or practices upon them.The majority has no direct interest in spirituality so, leave them to it but work quietly away in the background.More and more people are drifting toward spirituality all the time however (thanks to the internet and forums such as this).That cant be an entirely bad thing, maybe its only a matter of time before there are more of 'us' than 'them'.

[Rikoshi]

I'm not giving a broad based 'we'. Ignorant people certainly can practice magic, give spiritual half truths, lead people astray. Magic is a tool. However, many of us who walk the path have epiphanies along the way, insights that we would be selfish to keep to ourselves.

I cannot speak for others, only myself. I am a man of science, a man of the occult, and if there is anything I am blessed and cursed with, it is a mind that is constantly taking in more and re-calibrating. I trust my own insight to be helpful to others, nothing more. Not everyone will accept knowledge that I share freely, and that is often their own loss.

In politics, I have taken long looks and tried to cut through the murk to see what appears to be the truth of a complex mess. There is no purity to politicians- many are corrupt in one aspect or other, or have ideas that are less than perfect. But amid the chaos, I can see single issues and single truths and do my best to speak on those as a scientist, scholar, and citizen.

[Nahemah]

Point being: you cannot save anyone else until or unless you save yourself first.

This is meant to be a provocative statement.

[Venefica]

I think one can fine use magick to try to influence politics. I however think it is hard to do. It would be the same as influencing the lottery. So many pepole have strong opinions about politics, have hopes and dreams tied up in it, and with all that will, and all that Energy floating around an occultist's magick will not do much else than add to the cacophony unless that practitioner is extremely skilled. It would be like shouting to someone at the super bowl stadium when one team had just won, there is so many voices shouting it is hard for your one voice to be heard. But I do not think there is immoral to try. Magick is a tool it serves the magician, if the magician want to use it for politics I see no reason why not. yes magick is not political the same way a car or a gun is not political, it is a tool to be used at will.