Illegally Downloading Music is WRONG!

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: ghoul

I download 99% of my music. I simply don't have the money to pay for albums that would need months to get sent to me anyways.

But I try to support the bands I like in other ways. I am alerting people to gigs being played, am a member of quite a lot of street teams for bands who practically no one knows over here in Europe, print out flyers, try to advertise as much as possible, go to the gigs, buy as much merchandise as I can afford with my meager wages...

At the last gig I visited (Rezurex and Stellar Corpses), I talked with the musicians about this for quite some while. None of them were upset that I only have their mp3s - in fact, they were glad to have reached another fan through the internet. I might never have heard of them without the net and downloading their stuff.

Those bands that I like and I know have financial problems because they just don't sell enough albums... I just, again, buy their merchandise if I can afford to do so, from them, not through some retailer. If they have paypal accounts, I donate what I can afford, whenever I can.

I'm not a professional musician, but I've played in enough bands to know that it can be very tedious without money. You need equipment, you need to travel around if on tour, you need to live somewhere, actually get something to eat... I'm not worried if I download something from a band/musician that I know earns enough money trough sales to be able to live off the music. When it comes to small, hardly known bands, I try to support them as best as I can - besides buying merch, stuff like letting them crash at my place if they have nowhere else to go etc.

From talking to those people, I've realised that they feel the same way as I do - music should be free, and anyone you can make happy or feel better with your music is someone to whom you reached out and touched something inside them. That is what, for me, music is about. Giving them a hand with money or just helping them with whatever they need is something I see as coming naturally, if you really like a band.

Eh... ranting. Sorry.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Marquise De Sade

Maybe you should ask for your money back; it sounds like most of the laymen in this thread know a lot more about the music business than you do. I guess that makes sense though, the school is trying to sell you a degree for something that probably won't exist in 10 years, why would they hip you to that fact?

:rolleyes:

Didn't I just agree with all the people who said that the labels are using ridiculous clauses to steal money from the musicians(wait... I said that)? And really I didn't see anything to prove your point except for the very obvious remarks people here are making like "the majors are stealing money!" The major I'm considering is so cheap they somehow taught the foul play the labels use to steal money, and yet people here don't even know how its being done. So in essence your comment means nothing.

The internet has essentially removed the need for any sort of middleman in the music "business". Any artist who believes their music is worth buying has the ability to sell it themselves, with about the same setup woes as an ebay powerseller. Information flows freely now, and people don't need manufactured stars anymore. The long tail is becoming the fat tail.

And...? Maybe you didn't read my posts. Why do you think i support things like itunes and emusic? Why would I support mediums like myspace? Because its money that goes to the artists, and good promotion without label help. I just don't support downloading full albums for free. I said that in my two previous posts. So once again another failed comment.

And beyond this fact, there are also a good number of musicians that share their music for free, like myself. But I guess that makes me some sort of freak hippie musician who isn't legit, right? I also work in marketing, so let me tell you something about media...

Holy shit. That useless degree that I'm considering, and those classes I took never mentioned that. I guess the whole class is full of freak hippies because they obviously teach outdated models of the business, and it isn't commen sense to give free things to help promote your band. I never knew.

All traditional media is dying.

No shit.

There may not be television in 10 years! Youtube is better, and people create the content for free! Oh my! I thought culture was a commodity!?

Just a theory so it means nothing.

Every year the major television networks hold an event where they rent out a really fancy theater in NYC. All the big companies that do TV ads show up; Johnson & Johnson, Procter & Gamble, Unilever, etc... and they watch the pilots for the new shows to decide which ones they want to run ads on. This has been happening for decades.

And...?

Now, all of a sudden, none of these guys are showing up. TV advertising doesn't work, print ads don't work, radio ads don't work. And as a result of this, the good old music industry model no longer works. Of course they blame MP3s, but the MP3s are just an expression of a larger change in our society.

Once again you misunderstand what I support despite the fact I clearly said I supported the indies, and downloading one or two free songs from an album. Of course maybe thats my fault because somehow despite the fact I said it loud, and clear you didn't understand.

Eh well i don't care. I like this thread more, and more. Helps to sharpen the debate skills.

EDIT:

Most musicians make a very small percentage of their earnings off of physical record sales. Most of that money goes to the record company. Merchandising and touring fill the musician's pockets. At least that is the way I've had it explained to me.

You are 100% correct. While all artist contracts are different the labels expect certain things to be covered. For one thing all of these albums are funded through label advances which album sales are suppose to pay of. The contracts however didn't include the sale of digital music because no one really expected it would grow the way it did. These contracts included things like a breakage clause, free goods charge, shipping, and returned goods costs. So really the artists make almost no money until the advances are paid.

Thats why like I said before, it's better to support these artists through online purchases.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: ominous

I agree, it's theft. I was actually just preaching about this over the weekend to a friend that has a vast collection of pirated media. I don't even buy bootleg dvd's (besides, I've got Blu-Ray, and as far as I know they are not bootlegging those yet).

I don't have anything that I didn't pay for.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Serafan

If Illegally Downloading Music is wrong...I DON'T WANT TO BE RIGHT! >.<

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: ObscureThoughts

People would laugh at some of the stuff I download. Technically, it falls under the illegal download paradigm, since I use a tool that allows people to dl music illegally...

But there is a time limit on copyrights, and claims to royalties if copyright is lost. In the US, copyright is limited to 50 years, plus the life of the original artist currently, but, before 1971? (I know it was in the 70's), copyright was the life of the original artist + 25 years. So old radio shows? Currently copyright free. Most networks have let the copyrights lapse, since who would want old radio shows when there's television and video? Plus, a great number of the original artists are passed away, leaving a greater gap in the copyright law. And no, copyright does not always get passed on to the estate.

Now, I do occaisionally dl some modern songs, but they're typically from other countries, and don't fall under the RIAA's header of who they protect. If the album was never made for American release, technically it doesn't count.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Rend Sever

For the longest while I used to d/l my music. Then I dove into audiophile grade setups and realized MP3's sound like garbage compared to original CD's or better yet, vinyl.

90% of the MP3's out there are ripped and compressed so horribly that they lose much of their detail, are equalized (GAG!) or become grainy sounding compared to source tracks.

Just buy your own CD's, then rip them to FLAC. Much more aurally satisfying. Plus, if your computer or mobile player craps out on you, you still have the originals to rip again.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Luke Saint

[QUOTE=Marquise De Sade;347693]Ok people I noticed that the forums have been pretty dead recently so why not talk about something that most of us know about.

About 2 years ago I bought a Creative Zen Vision:M MP3 player that aside from the scratches, and bumps has lasted me this long, and still works in PERFECT condition. Now that I have a Macbook Pro I have been using itunes, and emuisc to download all my music, and will be using my MP3's software on this laptop.

I'm looking through my MP3, and I see all the songs I download, and I can't help but feel like a hypocrite, and very bad at the moment. I'm a musician, and I have worked damn hard to earn at least a little from doing what I love, and have worked hard on all the bands I've been in(had label interest once), and supporting my fellow indie musicians. About a year ago I realized that downloading music for free was money coming out of the artist pockets so I decided to buy most my music through itunes.

I also stopped buying physical CDs since believe it or not due to a contract clause the money from physical albums dosen't go to the artists either but to the big labels(good or bad? U decide).

I decided to take the big step, and in a few days will delete 90% of the music on my MP3 player because I deserve it for stealing from the artists which I so dearly support. Yeah sure some of them have alot of money but think about. If we really supported them would we be stealing from them? They worked hard to make their dreams come true why should we fuck them over?

To replace my library I will upload all the songs that I downloaded legally. Call me crazy but thats how I feel, and now its time to atone for my mistakes.

Thanks for reading... Please support your local independent artist!

:drama:[/QUOTE]

I have physical copies of every important album by Alice In Chains:
Facelift
Sap
Dirt
Jar of Flies
Alice In Chains
AiC Unplugged
Live!

There are songs not on those albums (viz. "Get Born Again"), but I just use YouTube.

Oh, all the other musicians? Well, they are up for grabs. Seether and Pantera, bought the albums. Metallica, torrented. I bought every US version of the Beatles albums. In other words, if you only like one or two songs off an album, download. If you like the whole album, buy it, you get a booklet sometimes.

[Venefica]

I do not download much music, as I prefer the sound of CD's to the various data formats. However I do not feel bad about downloading something that I know I would not buy. I do download quite a bit of books and movies and TV series. But for the most part I either download because shows is very slow to get to Norway and I buy them when they get to DVD if I like them, or I download because the products are out of print and hard to find. When I eventually find the products legally I usually buy them as I am a collector of paranormal shows and books and computer games, but I do not feel bad about downloading out of print stuff. I however usually buy when it is in print stuff as I want to support the things I like with my wallet so that more of the same can be made.

Now illegal downloading something out of print is not theft, no one suffers any loss. Downloading something which is still in print is something else. However it is not stealing in the conventional sense of the word, as nothing is removed from the owner, just copied. Now I am not saying that it is right, as if everyone just copied, no one would earn any money from producing everything and all that would be made would be hobby productions. It is in people's best interest to pay for things that they like, however, illegal download is not stealing.

Now once I was completely anti piracy, then I went out and bought a Playstation 2 game legally which had copy protections which destroyed my playstation 2, I had to buy a new machine. I have also buy several CDs which sounds horrible as anti piracy layers are added which degrade the sound for those who buy the music legally and which might even destroy your sound system if you have put any money into speakers. The constant commercials and the way the copy protection mafia behaves have made me pro piracy. They treat every customer like a criminal, they try to ruin the lives of 14 year olds with a few illegal songs on their i pods and the numbers they produce over their losses are just grabbed out of their asses, the numbers are wild and can not be substantiated. They also seam to think that every illegal download is a lost sale, and that is just stupid as that would mean that on average every Ipod over had the money to have over 15 000 dollars worth of music on their Ipod. Another hopeless thing is the zones on DVDs and Bluray. It is a system put into place to squeeze the most out of every customer as they then can put a max price in every zone depending on the average income in that area and also make it more easy to hold back a DVD release to get more money from selling a series or a movie to a local TV station. The whole system is rotten. Yes it is not difficult to find a zone free DVD player, but it is a hassle, as it makes it very hard for me to play movies I buy in USA for example on my lap top, and when I have strange taste in movies I have to got to other nations to find what I like as little Norway with its 5 million inhabitants do not have the same selection as USA have in horror movies. Anyway, as long as the copy protection mafia continue to treat customers as shit and criminals, and as long as they have systems like the zone system and copy protection systems which ruin players and the like I am going to be pro piracy. The industry can not respect respect unless they also give the customers some respect in return.

[Grymdycche]

I have to agree with Venefica here. There is a difference between theft, technically, and copyright infringement.
That said, I sometimes download music that I've already paid for on vinyl or tape, so I can make it more handy and portable, or, to sample music. If I like the music, as a long time musician myself, I support the artist by buying their CD. If not, it gets wiped, as I don't have hard drive space for all that anyway. It's still a crime, however, how little of that CD profit the artist actually gets to see. Maybe a nickel per song? It's ridiculous.

Also, looking at the other side of the coin (the consumer side), how fair is it that, if you buy a CD sound unheard, and realize once getting it home that you hate the music, you aren't allowed to return it? What other business model does that? Only the EULAs in music (and software) are completely unfair to the consumer,and are based on the assumption, basically, of guilty until proven innocent. It's ass-backwards. You cannot read the EULA in software until you've already removed the shrinkwrap. It's a scam. Same with the music. (At least books, or most of them, can be sampled in the bookstore, unless they're also shrinkwrapped).

On the whole, I think illegally downloading music hurts the big companies far more than the artists, as artist only get anywhere from 2.5% to at most 5% of the net sales anyway. At least 95% is going to the record companies. I wish more artists would just cut out the middleman and sell their art directly on the Internet, so that they could get more fairly paid for their work.

[Venefica]

In Norway you have full right to make a copy of anything that you buy for personal use, as you buy the content, not the medium it is on in reality. However the American copy rights pepole are on the Norwegian government like hounds to try to change the law about that. I also agree that artists should get more of the cake for their music, as it is the really big and famous artists earn a allot however the lesser known ones earn very little on what they do and that is a shame. However what they do get from signing on with record company and that is that the company can further their career more than if they just published with Lulu or something like that, however the record companies do take an insane profit for their work and it is quite a shame.