A few questions...

[dylank91]

Ok, so I'm generally new to the occult and ceremonial magic. I've purchased several grimoires, but have not tried any of the rituals inside, mainly because of the sheer complexity of all the rituals. I've heard so many conflicting opinions about this, mainly that the original authors made it so complicated to kind of make the inexperienced person no longer want to try the rituals, or must you follow the instructions completely?

Another question is about the construction of the magic circle, there are many different kinds out there, I'm wondering which of the circles do you find to be most effective, and do different ones suit different rituals best?

And any general tips would be great as well =) Thanks a lot!

[ArcaneSpells]

I think ceremonies are needless and they're not practical. They can work but why spend so much time with them when much more practical spells work just as well or even better.

[AethericEngineer]

If you're interested in CM, that's Ceremonial Magick -not to be confused with Chaos Magick, then you've got a long but rewarding road ahead of you. It can be rather complicated but often you can find alternatives to the rituals of old grimoires. If you're new to CM then I would recommend learning the fundamentals of ritual before you attempt the Great Work. I'm assuming the Great Work is your interest and you're not thinking of evoking a damned Angel from the Lesser Key of Solomon as a novice. Try to put those thoughts out of your head for the time being and preferably forever.

You're going to want to start with what everyone starts with and that's the LBRP. This ritual serves two purposes. The first is functional and that is to banish the lesser or lower influences. While it may be boring after doing it three times daily for years, it is necessary to master before doing anything else because of its second purpose. The second purpose of the LBRP is mastery of fundamental techniques. You must learn how to control your will, to channel and direct energy, and vibrate words of power both internally and externally. It is something that can be explained but not really taught. You will learn it as you do it. You also get to evoke Archangels that you don't have to fight with or worry about eviscerating your soul. I know what you're thinking, "where's the fun in that?"

While you're practicing that you'll want to familiarize yourself with the kaballah as much as possible as it is the most helpful system for CM. At first you could think of it the way Crowley did, as a "filing system" for all phenomena.

When you're proficient with the LBRP and know a little about the kaballah you will want to work on the Middle Pillar exercise and the Circulation of the Body Of Light. This will benefit you immensely and should be done daily. Then you can start thinking about the Opening by Watchtower or the Bornless Ritual. Then you may be able to understand what those grimoires are really all about.

Good books for fundamentals are Modern Magick Though, he made some errors and his writing is a little juvenile. I just learned that he has a new version out and it may be more accurate. His structure is good to use because it helps keep one from becomming overwhelmed. Also, just about everything by Israel Regardie is wonderful. A Garden of Pomegranates for the Kaballah, The Golden Dawn for the rituals and The Tree of Life for a solid understanding. Also check out anything else that catches youre eye but keep in mind that there is a lot of misinformation everywhere and moreso regarding the occult so always research the authors. Do what thou will.

[Lucan]

Yes, those instructions in grimoires are there for a reason and you must follow them to obtain results. If you study Agrippa, astrology and Kabbalah you will understand why and how it works.

If you're interested in CM, that's Ceremonial Magick -not to be confused with Chaos Magick, then you've got a long but rewarding road ahead of you.  It can be rather complicated but often you can find alternatives to the rituals of old grimoires.  If you're new to CM then I would recommend learning the fundamentals of ritual before you attempt the Great Work.  I'm assuming the Great Work is your interest and you're not thinking of evoking a damned Angel from the Lesser Key of Solomon as a novice.  Try to put those thoughts out of your head for the time being and preferably forever.

The original poster wants to work with grimoires, so don't feed him with that modern superstitions and non-theories. Evocation of demons is not only good for "novices" but also NECESSARY, because it's the only way of Initiation into grimoire tradition. According to dyadic nature of initiation it consists always of initiator and initiate, and the former is the demon in this case. What have to be done is to prepare the subjective mind to work with grimoires - with prayer and study, not new-age nonsense like banishings or visualisation. If you want to enter grimoiric work with maximum safety and certanity I recommend Howlings from the Pit, a journal in 4 pdfs available for free now.

[cactusjack543]

this is how evolution gods sister can be bent into favoring through praire witchcraft for power wealth and greed it was origionally ment like i heard once first we need to seek justice in order to heal i bielieve that so much injustice on the poor to only want to keep up with the joneses an athiest pillar of faith. witchcraft is below that then computer clanes make the way straight they say for your futuristic levahs so forth like the witchcraft leader at mind war so as we listen to our leaders so they we defend in the future

[AethericEngineer]

I don’t know what I must have said to conjure up that pretentious attitude but on you go. My advice wasn’t to avoid evocation but simply to hone the fundamentals of ritual work before doing something that most practitioners, including myself, would argue to be dangerous. I don’t even think Dylank said anything about demons anyway. My main intention on mentioning it was to keep the post entertaining.

[mouser9169]

Ok, so I'm generally new to the occult and ceremonial magic. I've purchased several grimoires, but have not tried any of the rituals inside, mainly because of the sheer complexity of all the rituals. I've heard so many conflicting opinions about this, mainly that the original authors made it so complicated to kind of make the inexperienced person no longer want to try the rituals, or must you follow the instructions completely?

Another question is about the construction of the magic circle, there are many different kinds out there, I'm wondering which of the circles do you find to be most effective, and do different ones suit different rituals best?

And any general tips would be great as well =) Thanks a lot!

I'll second AethericEngineer's suggestions, and add my own, along with some background information since you say you are new to this -

Most ceremonial magic today stems from one of two sources - the Golden Dawn and Aurum Solis.

The Golden Dawn splintered not long after it was formed, Crowley joined a group then left to form his own, then his group splintered. By the time it was all finished, every man and his dog seems to have a "Golden Dawn" Order claiming this or that lineage to the original. It also makes it very hard to determine what the people involved in the beginning were really like or what really happened, since most of them were not important enough for disinterested parties (ie: newspapers, biographers) of the day to notice (with the notable exception of Crowley), so all we have to go on are what they wrote about each other. And by the time the shaking and breaking was done, everyone's ox had been gored and everybody had at least one ax to grind with someone else.

The good part of all this is that most of the Golden Dawn's material, along with material developed later has been published, so you can read for yourself and learn the system. Here's a few authors whose books are usually available on Amazon: Israel Regardie (his big book, the Golden Dawn is the one that started all the free release of information), Dion Fortune, Paul Foster Case, and Aleister Crowley (I don't have a high personal opinion of someone who would find his "higher will" only to subject it to the Great God Opium, but he did write some decent stuff, and he's too important to just completely ignore). I'd say anything by the first three is worth reading. Crowley you need (IMHO) to be a bit more discerning with - in any case you can hold off reading him till you have the basics under your belt so to speak and can make your own informed opinion of the man and his work.

Aurum Solis claims a longer lineage (it is not a Rosicrucian Order as the Golden Dawn is), and has a slightly different view of some things. They are both hermetic orders, so there are far more similarities than differences. The order appears to have petered out since its two prominent leaders, Melita Denning and Osbourne Phillips left.

The authors to look for here are Denning & Phillips. The books I would recommend are "The Foundations of High Magick", "The Sword & the Serpent", and "Mysteria Magica" - those three compose their "magnum opus" and are collectively called "The Magical Philosophy" (It was originally published in 5 volumes). Other titles to look for are "Magical States of Consciousness" - best pathworking book I've ever seen, and "Entrance to the Magical Qabalah". I'd stay away from their titles starting "Practical Guide to ". Writers and publishers need to eat, and my honest opinion was Carl at Llewellyn publishing needed a line of interesting sounding "New Age" books, and got D&P to write them. There is some good stuff in them, but you've got to do some work to separate the wheat from the chaff. In any case, they are not written at the level of the other works I mentioned.

As to the importance of ritual - well, we're in the Ceremonial Magic forum, and Ceremony is part of that. There is a very good reason for performing ceremonies and rituals - it will help you draw on and become part of the egregore of magicians who are using those ceremonies now and those who have gone before.

This is not a quick and easy path where you'll be "casting spells" right away (if ever). The Mystical Qabalah (not to be confused with Orthodox Jewish Kabbalah) takes a lot of study to learn and even more to master. You must learn the Hebrew Alphabet, the Sephiroth and paths on the tree of life and the forces governing and presiding over each, the Keys of the Tarot and a bunch of other things you'll encounter as you go along. But as with most things in life, the rewards are worthy of the work needed to acquire them.

I wish you well on your path.

[Kalagni]

If you're still around, I'll walk the middle ground.

What are you looking for in ceremonial magick? Are you specifically interested in the Grimoiric tradition or did you get the grimoires because that's what you though ceremonial magick largely consisted of?

If you're specifically interested in the Grimoiric tradition I'd recommend Secrets of the Magickal Grimoires: The Classical Texts of Magick Deciphered as a sort of...meta-text. Aaron works from the theory that all Grimoires stem for a single tradition and tries to explore the links and similarities as well as how and why the system works. I'd also recommend, with a container of salt Ceremonial Magic & The Power of Evocation. I really enjoy the book, and it has a lot of good points...but the author I feel is traditional to the point of being thoughtless. Great points, great silly points too. It's also more of a meta-text, it's more about explaining a theory about what is being done with the grimoires than being one itself.

If you're looking into ceremonial magick in a more general sense then I think AethericEngineer hit most of my recommendations. I'd also add in Learning Ritual Magic: Fundamental Theory and Practice for the Solitary Apprentice In some ways it covers less than most intro to ceremonial magick texts. What I mean in that sense is that contains very little in the way of proper rituals, but more so than most intro books it contains a lot of theory and foundation, it explains the geometry of the Tree of the Life, why the paths are ordered the way they are (even if I disagree with that tradition), intro into Qabalah and conceptualizing the world through that lens.

As for your question on the circle style, I prefer the style put forth in the Heptameron (it's included in the Ceremonial Magic and the Power of Evocation book) over the snake spiral. I feel the spiral one is a simplification. It's almost as if the design knew everything that had to be in a circle but didn't know how/why to apply it, so threw in everything. The Heptameron circle is simple and elegant in which you have three concentric circles and two of them change depending on the season, day, and hour. I also think it has a better Qabalistic symbolism than the spiral snake.

[Salivanereni]

Magical Circle Creation Tips:

1. Use the correct energy channels. In this case you can use the same hand gestures from the LBRP
2. You must be aware of the magic energy outside you. Not merely a visualization in your mind;
3. Do not bother with trying to remember where you started the circle and how you will make ends meet.
This is ridiculous since you are creating it by visualization. Merely will it to be a complete one symbol.
Keep the circle in visualization and make the ends meet both with your fingers and also by closing the circle by the will of your mind.
This is the key. You started it Astral. Using your physical fingers will not work if you don't use your mind.
4. If the circle contains seals be very careful about the direction of the creation.
Regard the instructions for the pentagram use if you desire more elaboration and practical application for the aforementioned
information in this point.

Have a good day.