JESUS IS TRUTH

[catboydale]

I am a Christian man, and though, I totally agree with this guy, I feel like this was just the wrong approach. Seeing that this is a place of sharing experiences, knowledge, ideas, and the occult. Preaching isn't what people want here, in fact, it's not appropriate here. People want discussions, not sermons. And seeing that he hasn't come back to defend his word, isn't really helping his case. The case would be no different if a Satanist went a preached a sermon on this board, or even a Islamic Cleric.
I mean, look at the first sentence of the guy's post: -KNEEL BEFORE YOUR LORD-, come now... you are just asking to be mocked. >.>;

I expect this though. I'm sure this isn't the first time someone posted a "Jesus loves you" sermon on this board. I'm sure it will continue to happen.

[Belial]

Unfortunately yes.It's people like this that ruin things for the rest of their religion.This manner of crusade only serves to hurt the cause rather than actually helping it.

That being said I'm still adamant about my location of choice for toasting marshmallows.

[Nahemah]

The case would be no different if a Satanist went a preached a sermon on this board, or even a Islamic Cleric.

QFT.

Or for that matter a Pagan fundie ,or a love n lighter type new ager..etc,ad nauseam.

Folk are free to prosleytise,but in doing so they will find that the members tend to give them short shrift for it ,as they are also free to reply how they see fit.

Persistent preachers will be dumped in the troll pit,once they start getting boring or irritating.Just sayin' [crazy]

That being said I'm still adamant about my location of choice for toasting marshmallows.

[devil]

[Typhonian Theurgist]

The case can be made that JC was a magician utilizing the magical techniques available in the Mediterranean at the time. If you check out the Greaco-Egyptian magical papyri; they used whatever worked. Greek, Egyptian, Hebrew, Persian and other deities are invoked, called upon to perform acts ranging from help getting laid to self-deification. Now for the correspondence between Set Typhon and JC The fish is forbidden to Osirian priests as a fish ate Osiris' 13th part when Set chopped him up. Xian fish symbol anyone? Jesus rode in on a donkey, an animal associated with Set at the time. Theurgists would seek permanent union with a god, thus becoming 'a Son of God' and able to wield magical power directly without the need for ritual or names of power. Jesus performed miracles that any such Magus acting as a divine being was meant to be able to perform. JC's dad was JO Seph, Io Seth is a common incantation and reference to Seth Typhon. `Sounds Like... Check out Stephen Flowers : Hermetic Magic, the Postmodern magical papyris of Abaris for references. I always ask Xians why are there only 4 gospels when there were 12 apostles? Thats 8 books missing! The pig is also associated with Set and Xians are the only Book religion allowed to eat pork. Red lamps are specifically used only in Typhonian operations and are proscribed for other types of work. There is a lot of red glass oil lamps and candle holders in many Xian churches.
There is plenty of excellent ideas and barbarous words in those papyri, useful to chaos magician ancient and modern.

[catboydale]

Theurgists would seek permanent union with a god, thus becoming 'a Son of God' and able to wield magical power directly without the need for ritual or names of power.

Jesus proved he had power at the age of twelve. He knew the entire Torah (divine knowledge through god himself) and began preaching in the temples. A little strange for a 12 year old assuming JC is a magician and not the true son of god; I thought I'd just point that out.

I always ask Xians why are there only 4 gospels when there were 12 apostles? Thats 8 books missing

Kinda sucks when Peter gets crucified upside down... Judas hangs himself. Jude, while preaching in Persia was killed off. Writing supplies were hard to come by, and many people couldn't even read or write during those times. Since God insures that his word will be delivered, we should be thankful we have those four.

The pig is also associated with Set and Xians are the only Book religion allowed to eat pork.

If we are going to talk about Jesus... Jesus was Jewish, and he was Kosher, and he followed all Kosher laws. Including the best example when he celebrated Passover prior to his bloody death.

Acts 10:9-16 (NIV)
9 About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. 13 Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”
14 “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”
15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”
16 This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

This is the example of Peter's vision regarding eating Kosher foods, and that God released us from the Jewish law (since we are not under the law of Jesus, and not the prior law laid out by Moses). I would have to go into a pretty lengthy discussion about Christian Law, but I can save that for another time.

Jesus ate plenty of fish, even fed thousands of people with only two fish and five loaves of bread. (And had plenty more for the road). There is a lot of religious overtones regarding the fish. "I will make you fishers of men" being the most memorable one.

***

I ultimately have a hard time seeing that Jesus was a Magician. Sure, by definition of the word, the miracles he preformed was "magic" (since he broke the laws of reality). His miracles were so astounding, that sick people only had to touch his cloak to be healed. Fed thousands of people (documented twice even), Walked on water, and was brought back from the dead, ascending into heaven. I believe it was god, in the flesh, giving Jesus the power.

[dodaive]

Yeah Jesus was a child prodigy at the age o12, then you have 20 missing years with no record. He was too amazing of a character, to not have someone, the Jews, the Romans write about him. @catboydale where do you think Jesus was in his missing years and what was he doing in his life? One popular belief is that he went to India,which might bring us to some of the philosophical distinctions between polytheism and monotheism. Does anyone else have any thoughts as to Jesus's missing years

[catboydale]

Other people did write about Jesus, which is why many historians agree that Jesus did exist. There were however, many documents that didn't make it into the Cannon of the Bible. In the Catholic bible, there is the Apocrypha, located generally between the old and new testament. These books contain some very interesting history, stories, and political events of the bible times. Though, they are NOT part of the bible's Cannon.

As regards to "What did Jesus Do for 20 years?" That's actually a very good question. I've heard a lot of theories. The bible never clearly states what Jesus really did. We do however know, that Jesus was a Carpenter, So I assume that somewhere during those 20 years, he had to have worked. If you don't build anything, it's hard to consider you a carpenter.

I have heard the theory that he went to India. The route that they were taking at the time when he was young, would had led them near India. It's possible.

Luke Chapter 2 explains what happened with Jesus from birth til age 12. At the end of the chapter, verse 52 (which is right after the 12 year old preaching incident, they leave the town), it says:

52 And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man.

We at least know that Jesus grew in Wisdom, Stature and favor. Whatever he did.

[Aardvark]

First of all you're assuming the Bible is accurate in the first place, and since the gospels were written after the fact, it's a situation of hearsay. That being said, there are more than four gospels. There were quite a large amount of gospels. The Infancy Gospel of Thomas [Greek Text A], The Infancy Gospel of Thomas [Greek Text B], The Infancy Gospel of Thomas [Latin Text], The Gospel of James, The Gospel of the Nativity of Mary, The Gospel of Mary [Magdalene], The Gospel of Nicodemus [Acts of Pilate],The Gospel of Bartholomew, Peter, Thomas, Philip, the rest of Mark that was edited out also called The Secret Gospel of Mark. Those are just a few you can view online if you so wish. Four were decided upon to enter the Bible, some were destroyed, but there are still some around that you can read, they're not considered "inspired" by Christianity, even though they were in wide use prior to the canonization of the current Bible. It's for that reason a Catholic Bible has more books than a Protestant Bible (it retains some of the apocryphal texts, the Protestants threw out). There were many other books and gospels, but people only chose which ones they wanted to use. You can go to the Gnostics and ask them about the Nag Hammadi finds. There are gospels there contemporary to the four canonized ones that have the same claim as those four, but were decided against because they didn't fit the idea the church wanted to create.

The India theory is also considered by some scholars to be a merging of the Jesus figure with the Apollonius figure. And there's really not that many mentions of Jesus the son of God by any contemporary historians of the time. All contemporary sources, and shortly after sources such as Suetonius don't mention Jesus in their extensive histories. Pliny never mentioned Jesus, only Christians and he calls them Paulists. Tacitus mentions a Jesus, but is not clear which of the many Jesus' he was referring, and in point of fact there were many so-called Messiahs in the area, and some even had the name Jesus (Yeshua), as it's a fairly common name for the time. Josephus mentions John the Baptist and his followers, Pilate, Herod, and many of names in the Bible, but does not mention a Jesus outside of a much later forgery. Justus wrote an extensive history of the healers, messiahs, and general history of the area around Capernaum, which Jesus is said to frequent and worked miracles in, yet he fails to mention that. It is only in later writers, post-gospels where you see the mention of Jesus by historians. The four gospels that are in the Bible weren't labeled as authored by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, until after the 2nd century when the Bible was canonized. Prior to that they were written by anonymous, and all agree well after the fact.

An addendum just to stay on topic: Proselytizing only hurts your cause, friend (directed to JIL). Religion is only what you make of it, but know that by definition it can go no higher than the dogma can allow it. You're either following the rules, or you're no longer a part of that. It's for that reason religion does more harm to spiritual advancement, than it does good.

Edit: Weird spelling errors, haha.

[catboydale]

I posted a response to someone once on a Christian forum about why I chose Christianity. I'll have to find it and copy some stuff from it and post it here, since it covers some stuff about why I believe the bible is truth. But as of right now, it's 5am... I probably should try to get some sleep... heh...

To make a very simple point however, using the Old testament. God promises that his word will survive. We're not even talking about Greek here. So whether or not some of those books could have been in the bible, I honestly don't think it maters. If god sees a problem with his word, he will find a way to fix it. But as of right now, the most printed book of all time is the Bible.

[Aardvark]

I posted a response to someone once on a Christian forum about why I chose Christianity. I'll have to find it and copy some stuff from it and post it here, since it covers some stuff about why I believe the bible is truth. But as of right now, it's 5am... I probably should try to get some sleep... heh...

I'd like to read that. You sound like me. Up entirely too late, haha.

To make a very simple point however, using the Old testament. God promises that his word will survive. We're not even talking about Greek here.

Well we are talking about Greek and sometimes Aramaic when we're talking about New Testament gospels. There were hundreds in circulation and all the fragmented Christians sects were using different ones, it wasn't until the 4th century the finalized version of the Bible was made, the form of Christianity to follow was written down and everyone else deemed heretical. That set off some of the most brutal pieces of European history. Those so called "burning times" has much less to do with burning actual witches. The history shows the areas where the conflict between Catholic and other forms of Christians was the highest, was also where there were the highest amount of "witch" burnings. That sort of thing is what I mean by religion. Most of those people, Catholics and other Christians alike weren't bad people, nor witches, some simply believed in the wrong type of Christianity. That couldn't hinder spiritual progress any more. The Arian heresy was against a group of Christians that didn't believe Jesus was divine. A lot of Christians didn't believe that before the structure of Roman Catholicism was created. When the four gospels were decided on and the Bible canonized, suddenly people who had always held these certain beliefs were "evil" and "heretical." It's for that reason only four of the few hundred gospels in circulation made it to the Bible. Those other gospels gave the individual their own salvation though meditation and prayer. But the church had to thrive from being the intermediary, so they simply altered their Bible to say the same thing. To make sure that nobody thought otherwise, they not only made all others heresy punishable by death, but it wasn't until the 16th century that translating the Bible to anything but Latin wasn't punishable by death. The common man can't read or speak Latin. That put the power solely and entirely in the hands of the organization. Which I believe to be against any or all of Jesus' teachings. The ones with the power to interpret and make those rules simply were the ones with political power, i.e Rome. If we're talking about the English Bible, then we're definitely talking about Greek, because up until very recently (literally some version all the way into the 20th century) all English translations were based on the Greek Septuagint. That translation was so flawed that a Rabbi of the Torah would hardly recognize the Christian Old Testament. That was one of the largest accusations against Jews in the Middle Ages. That they couldn't interpret the Bible correctly, even though they had a purer translation with much less hands to go through.

So whether or not some of those books could have been in the bible, I honestly don't think it maters. If god sees a problem with his word, he will find a way to fix it. But as of right now, the most printed book of all time is the Bible.

Also you're saying the Bible is true because the Bible is true. And I bet if you were to start publishing Harry Potter and Twilight the same time they started publishing the Bible during the Rennaissance, you might see something different.. sadly. All I'm saying is that the Bible is historically edited to fit political agenda. I'm not arguing against Christianity, because for some people and some forms of it now that we're allowed to read the apocryphal gospels and the Nag Hammadi, it's a beautiful teaching and theology. I have no problem with it or any other religion, aside from the fact I believe adhering to a dogma can potentially stop your growth at a certain point if it becomes bigger than you're told you can go (people still get excommunicated and for someone whose entire life revolved around their church, that's literally a death sentence for them, all for thinking outside the box). I also believe there's nothing wrong with civil conversations about it. I'm in no way trying to attack you and your faith, but those are honest points and you seem like someone who may not just take offense, call me an idiot and run off, haha.

I think my point is simply that I find it lamentable that what they had was a beautiful and pure teaching about union with God, through Jesus Christ, and instead of making a religion /through/ Jesus, the church made a religion /about/ Jesus and for a thousand years held the monopoly on faith.

[dawidos]

There is a temple of st Issu in ,Shrinigar, Kashmir India. And the local story goes that Jesus came there with Maria Magdalena. He was highly initiated reiki healer and stayed there healing people till he died at the age of 120. I quite liked the pictures of Jesus in India as he was mostly portraied with pointing at his radiant heart instead of suffering on the cross. There are many inaccuracies in bible and many stories around. Pick yours [happy]

[SolarFlea]

JesusisLord,

Is Eris true?
Everything is true.
Even false things?
Even false things are true.
How can that be?
I don't know man, I didn't do it

D you think we just stumbled in to this CWAZY MAGIWKS! without hearing about Jesus? Really? Get a life go argue with seventh day Adventist about who the 144,00 REALLY are.
Don't take it personally, but I'm not in the market for a messiah right now. I hear India's all a clamor for one at the moment, try there.

[SolarFlea]

babelfish fails again!

[Aardvark]

I'm confused, haha.

[antsubut]

@Dupexpini: that was spam.

[Vashta]

Yeah, sorry about that, we're better on the spam deletion these days, but it can still be a few hours before we get online and notice. Best to flag the posts as spam and trust that we'll get to it as soon as we're on. He was a busy one though...

[Nahemah]

He certainly was,only took a moment to get him gone though,lol.
I was on at 5 am,no spam,came back on at 9ish and wallop,tons of it.

[antsubut]

I can't understand why moths are always drawn to flame. The closer they go, the more intense the heat becomes and yet they keep going till they are roasted alive. Oh well! That is not the worst part of it. When it comes to eternal condemnation being roasted alive is un-comparable. They worship in fear and yet they believed in all-loving-thing. It keep buzzing in my head always- why can't they see it: all that is promised to them is eternal condemnation just like moths to fire.I can't understand why moths are always drawn to flame. The closer they go, the more intense the heat becomes and yet they keep going till they are roasted alive. Oh well! That is not the worst part of it. When it comes to eternal condemnation being roasted alive is un-comparable. They worship in fear and yet they believed in all-loving-thing. It keep buzzing in my head always- why can't they see it: all that is promised to them is eternal condemnation just like moths to fire.

[SolarFlea]

antsubut,

What? oh wait you posted it twice, ok, I think I got your point.

[Stukov]

I keep waiting for this thread to die.

[antsubut]

-KNEEL BEFORE YOUR LORD-

Two thousand years ago God came down to Earth as a man and died a horrible bloody death on a cross for the world so that the world could be saved! His name was Jesus. He said that He is the only way to eternal life, and only those that believe in Him are saved.

IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE JESUS DIED AND ROSE FROM THE GRAVE YOU ARE NOT SAVED AND CANNOT ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN,

I think I have an idea about eternal life is not that eternal: Was jesus a

[66dragonfly66]

for a moment I got confused about who was preaching. Chaplain and Jesus is Truth are two different people. Chaplain are you from the phillipines? Jesus is Truth, I believe you are white, or at least, culturally from a more fundamental evangelical background. I do not know your agenda, but do not believe you posting in a track bomber way to be specifically trolling, but the fact that little discussion has developed in a way that is... familiar to dialougue is probably a sign...

So, what is this christian stuff doing at this chaos majik site?
I read once on Spiral Nature that somehow believes that chaos majik to them was the ability to assume any and all paradigms at will. This would mean that taking this paradigm is also essential. I don't care for such high orthodox opinions of what chaos majik is or is not, but even if you are an eclectic you could use this power, or if you believe that christ is a legend decide to use the created egregore of the idea of christ for healing. I think alot of syncretism around the world does this. and as occultists i think we all have experienced the reality of christian spirituality being effective on some level. I see lots of crazy light shooting around when I go to orthodox masses. Ive never been to a catholic mass, so I can't say for sure. Ive been to OTO masses and its powerful, but not the same in its power, its focus seems to be on Crowley.

I read the Pillars of Tubal Cain by Nigel Jackson (or was it pennick?)... either way its trad craft from england. Alot of it about freemasonry. This is what I feel I learned from this.... The platonists equated the christians with the giants, the titans and chaos creators (you know those unformed fey that dwell near the primordial pool of potential), and that they represented over turning order. They also represented forces of nature that are pre-deluvian. I think this is the right word, before the flood (or deluge). Trad Crafters use gnostic knowledge freely it seems, because there is a tradition of dual faith. Instead of believing that the old religion was a nature religion that used witchcraft as part of its belief structure, trad crafters believe that even official pagan public praxis persecuted witches (poisoners, undertakers, hexers). Well... its just a case in point, because trad craft is coming out of the closet. I don't think there is a need to syncrenize. I do think that any form of potentially ancient praxis has more mana in it than our pop culture. Theres alotta pop culture jesus, but i think these pop plastic radiowave glossy electromagnetic frequency bullshit in our current aeon just messes up your energy. sorry if that was not clear. the icons of beauty (victoria secret, pornography) and ideals (thomas pynchon? theres no pics of him though) are potentially powerful if used right, but really, are so disconnected from the core that better servitors are created or worked with.

....
one last thought then maybe this whole Jesus is Truth will be dead?
I know that working with Jesus is more healing than working with the Leviathon. I think that maybe the christ force has pushed us all into a different state of humyn evolution, maybe. But even if there is power in this stuff, is it integrative enough to be used? Matrix Energetics "preacher" Richard Bartlett talks alot about this and quantum mechanics. My conclusion is that generally is a distraction from us using our own power and the power in this world, however there is something about tapping into fields and pools of otherworldly (or heavenly) power to manifest different realities here.

[moehog21]

I was a Jehovahs witness for 18 years and I lost faith in there version of Christianity after I had an Out of Body experience. It opened up completely new Vistas to me . Even the Bible was new I was tahn able to read it as it was meant to be read by one who understands and studies the Occult. The Bible talks about so many occult phenomena that I dont see how I couldnt of seen it before.

[cosmicjoke]

jesus in a chaos magic forum?!.

jil, if jesus existed today he would be in the psyche ward. lets consider the christrian paradigm, lets say that there is one god and that his son is jesus and that god created us with all these senses and a huge desire to satisfy them, now if we do (sin), we are going to burn in hell forever. so the way i see it, god created jesus, no sex involved?! his son, and boosted his ego by telling him that if humans dont kneel for you then i will send them to hell [devil] , jesus was like: yay daddy im gonna be popular lovey dovey stuff [crymore] [devil] . my conclusion would be that jesus couldve been a gay schizophrenic that directed a hollywood movie called the bible. now these stories are all good and well, but from a chaotic prespective it is true and false at the same time [clown] . we have the right to be blasphamous on this forum. i think... [yay]. if i was god and i was very powerfull, i would send every one on an eternal joy ride. liberation for all. kneel bro! [grin]

all hail discordia!

[antsubut]

I have read most of your replies. I want you all to be free in Christ. There is nothing like His freedom. Long live Christ and His glory, and all His angels in Heaven!

This is the word that came to my heart whilst reading a lot of your replies. Jesus wants you to know that He loves you, if you will repent and come to the living water He will fill you with life everlasting. Brothers there is no one like our God! HE IS THE GREAT I AM, He sets the captives free and will prepare a place for you in Heaven.

28Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

29Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

30For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Matthew 11:28-30

It's the lowest of the low to tell people to give their Souls away because they're sinners. Believing they're worthless and worthy they succumbed to the political schemes.