I just don't get it.

[sasquatchjc]

Hi, im not really a satanist (nor do i want to be honestly :p), I am a Wiccan. Now i know most of you are going to say that i shouldn't be here and all that jazz, but i've come here for an understanding.

See heres how i look at Satanism

Monotheism > Satan > Devil > Evil.

Now Satan is a devil/demon correct? and most )if not all) demons are basically evil.

I have merely come here to ask you about you're religion. I just do see what kind of enlightenment worshipping a dark lord could bring

Also, if i have insulted anyone (which i hope i don't, i wasn't trying to be insulting) please do not take offense. I';m just here so i can learn more about Satanism. So please, enlighten me

[ΙΟΛΗ7]

Let me give you my opinion...Satan is a demon indeed.All demon's are evil.
Angels are the only pure and bright creatures !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Bible,gives a clear description of who is Satan, and how it affects our lives. To put it simply, the Bible defines Satan as an angelic being who fell from his position in heaven due to sin and is now diametrically opposed to God, doing what it can to hinder God's purposes for humanity.
Satan was created as a holy angel...possibly gives the name of Satan before his fall as Lucifer. In Ezekiel 28:12-14 describes Satan created a cherubim, and was apparently the highest created angel. He became arrogant in his beauty and position, and decided he wanted to sit on a throne higher than the throne of God. Satan's pride led to his downfall. Notice the many "shall" statements in Isaiah 14:12-15. Because of sin, God threw him from heaven.
Satan became the ruler of this world running from God, and the prince of the power of the air (John 12:31, II Corinthians 4:4, Ephesians 2:2).It is an accuser (Revelation 12:10), a tempter (Matthew 4:3; Thessalonians 3:5), and a deceiver (Genesis 3, Corinthians 4:4, Revelation 20:3). The name means adversary or "one who opposes." Another name used for Satan, the devil means "slanderer."
Though he still was driven from heaven, still looking to raise his throne above God. Copies everything God does, hoping to win the adoration of the world and ypodaflizontas resistance of the kingdom of God. Satan is the root cause behind every false cult and religion in the world. Satan will do everything in his power to fight God and those who follow Him. However, the future of Satan has been sealed - an eternity in the lake of fire (Revelation 20:10).

[alex nero]

To me Satan is a god.By that I mean a being that was not born and cannot die.To say Satan is a "devil' or a 'demon" is to put Satan in the corner created by the 3 false religions---judaism,christianity,and islam.Satan was around long before these three contradictory,hypocritical shams came along.As far as enlightenment goes,Lucifer has shown me a lot.As far as evil goes,it's an opinion like good is.I don't like killing babies,but back me in a corner and I'll tell a lie.Am I evil?

[sasquatchjc]

I'm still a bit confused from this whole thing as i said in the first post, i don't see all demons as evil... in fact some of the most helpful spirits you will meet are demons (just got to be careful around them)

[ΙΟΛΗ7]

everyone is free to develop his own position through his own personal investigations...

''As far as evil goes,it's an opinion like good is''. ....kiling someone is evil...cursing someone,is evil....it's not just an opinion...it's reality !!! ...my opinion always !!!!!!

Εach one of us creates and nurtures inside him,two gods...like children do...it's only our choice who will prevail...if ultimately our good selves prevail,then we will surely find the perfect balance with our higher self,sky, nature,sea...

[sasquatchjc]

Well, one could consider killing/cursing as a righteous act if done to the right person

[ΙΟΛΗ7]

there's no right person to receive those evil acts....noone deserves to be cilled or cursed.We do not have this authority !!!!!! We just don't.Every day we read about perverds and other sick souls....even them do not deserve this punishment.

[Nahemah]

Satanism is an umbrella term,like Paganism or Witchcraft etc.
Not all Satanists are Religious,just like not all Witches are Wiccan.

Laveyan Satanism is probably the best known of the Atheistic forms.

http://www.churchofsatan.com/home.html

Then there is Spiritual or Theistic Satanism.

Again,there are several paths in this paradigm,also

Temple of Set,is a well known and established order.

http://www.xeper.org/pub/pub_resources.html

We have a venerable member here,Venus Satanas, who runs her own site 'Spiritual Satanist':

http://www.spiritualsatanist.com/

And Diane Vera's site:

http://theisticsatanism.com/

Then there is Demonolatry,another variation of Satanism:

http://www.satanservice.org/satanism-bibliography/

There is a lot more to Satanism than meets the eye,I haven't even begun to list Luciferianism or Gnostic Luciferianism or Luciferian witchcraft etc.Or any of the other groups and organisations.

Of course there are also Solitary and Eclectic Satanists,who suscribe to some or none of the above and who forge their own paths.

You haven't even scratched the surface yet,sasquatchjc,lol.I recommend doing some online research and perhaps hitting up the search /archives here,you may find some surprising information. [thumbup]

[sasquatchjc]

Why thank you Nahemah ill consider doing so

[reptilian]

I've encountered only about 3 or 4 Theistic Satanists. Most of the Satanists I know subscribe more to LaVey's brand. With LaVeyan Satanism, there are no gods, no powers above or below you, the only force that should govern you is you. Satan is more the inspiration for the mindset, than any deity or figurehead.
If you're curious about atheistic Satanism, The Satanic Bible, if you have the right sense of humor, is a great read. XD

[Nahemah]

If you're curious about atheistic Satanism, The Satanic Bible, if you have the right sense of humor, is a great read. XD

QFT.Agreed.

Thanks,I forgot to mention it. [blush]


"Apotheosis",an interesting term that you could look up sasquatchjc?

[Nahemah]

Some links around that:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apotheosis

[url]ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charismatic_authority[/url]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_personality

[Stukov]

"Apotheosis",an interesting term that you could look up sasquatchjc?

Was really used alot in the show Caprica. (which sucked until like the last 6 episodes)

[Belial]

I find the assumption that all demons are evil to be highly racist and narrow minded.Just as assuming all angels are good and helpful doing no wrong.Take into consideration many of those who are called demons these days were once called angels.

[Nahemah]

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/d/daimon.html

Outside of the Abrahamic systems,the distinction of good and evil is not so obvious. [greensmile]

If you hold to beliefs that are dualistic,then you will seek to term spiritual forces as either inherently 'good' or 'evil',it goes with the ground,so to speak,however there are many folk who do not believe this way,such as myself.

I see that there are many shades of grey and colour between the extremes,for me not much in this World is of 'black or white' alone.

[Stukov]

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/d/daimon.html

Outside of the Abrahamic systems,the distinction of good and evil is not so obvious. [greensmile]

If you hold to beliefs that are dualistic,then you will seek to term spiritual forces as either inherently 'good' or 'evil',it goes with the ground,so to speak,however there are many folk who do not believe this way,such as myself.

I see that there are many shades of grey and colour between the extremes,for me not much in this World is of 'black or white' alone.

I would beg to differ that the distinction of good/evil is obvious even in the Abrahamic system, as it is wholly illogical. Even ignoring the whole circular definition. "god" = good; yet breaking 10 commandments = evil; god breaking 10 commandments = still good. You can't say you know what good is by what "god" says is good, then have "god" break those very same rules.

Not arguing with you per say, but idocracy of some religious ideas. At least through part of the Renaissance people started to apply logic to the idea of a deity as they had seen how completely illogical some the religious texts are, which led to many prominent leaders being Deists.

[dodaive]

If I ever decide to write me a holy book, I also am going to say that my god is the good one, and the other one has to be the evil one right [grin2]

[Stukov]

If I ever decide to write me a holy book, I also am going to say that my god is the good one, and the other one has to be the evil one right [grin2]

Oh oh! You set it up perfectly for me to use my quote!

"Fault lies on the shoulder of a King; His power to twist the truth and label One a Rebel. For One, once fighting for the Glory and Righteousness of the Kingdom...falls left to only be known as, the Adversary."

[Muloc7253]

Honeslty just read The Satanic Bible by Anton LaVey. It's an easy read (keep with it, it starts a little esoteric than gets very informative) and answers your questions perfectly. Just bare in mind there are lots of different spiritual paths that call themselves Satanism (or something similar) that are completely unrelated, but Laveyian Satanism is the most popular and well-known.

[dodaive]

Honeslty just read The Satanic Bible by Anton LaVey

I am going to check it out. Christianity as a practice is largely about learning not to question anything or use reason. Ways to avoid reasoning can get almost as sophisticated as reasoning itself. My guess is that Lavey Satanism is teachings of how to reason, how to tear down all these sophisticated defense mechanisms to embrace objective reality.

[Muloc7253]

there's no right person to receive those evil acts....noone deserves to be cilled or cursed.We do not have this authority !!!!!! We just don't.Every day we read about perverds and other sick souls....even them do not deserve this punishment.

Erm no, if I had an opportunity to kill a terrorist before he committed his act and thus saved lots of lives, I have no problem with this. Sorry, I'm above your mad-made moral code.

[Clockwork Ghost]

If I ever decide to write me a holy book, I also am going to say that my god is the good one, and the other one has to be the evil one right [grin2]

If I ever design a religion I'm going to base it loosely on Zoroastrianism, but without any evil forces. It'll be a religion in which there is only one god and no evil force to fight against, only love and peace for an eternity. Either that or Jainism, but without any way of taking it to the extreme that Jains can go when they starve themselves to death in an attempt to follow the religion too perfectly.

[Clockwork Ghost]

there's no right person to receive those evil acts....noone deserves to be cilled or cursed.We do not have this authority !!!!!! We just don't.Every day we read about perverds and other sick souls....even them do not deserve this punishment.

Erm no, if I had an opportunity to kill a terrorist before he committed his act and thus saved lots of lives, I have no problem with this. Sorry, I'm above your mad-made moral code.

The age old problem of the ethics behind choosing whether it is good to kill one to save many, eh? I'd personally say that Muloc7253 is right here, but thats just my own view point - if one person dies in favour of hundreds then thats maths pure and simple.

In reality it doesnt matter because everyone dies, it just happens that some people die before others and some people die at the hands of others whilst other people die alone in their beds after living meaningless lives for a few decades more. Sure, we shouldnt have the right to say who lives or who dies, but in truth we dont know if the people that terrorist killed might have been terrorists themselves one day - remember that a terrorist is just a freedom fighter on the wrong side.

And what of state sponsored executions? Is it right to kill someone for killing someone else? An eye for an eye? Of course it is - its like putting down a mad dog, but why is it done so cleanly, why dont we just give the family of the victim a claw hammer and let them in to the cell of the murder while hes chained to a chair? The opposite of an execution is just the same, locking someone up to rot inside a cell - youve effectively taken their life away, youve just done it without death.

[Clockwork Ghost]

I find the assumption that all demons are evil to be highly racist and narrow minded.Just as assuming all angels are good and helpful doing no wrong.Take into consideration many of those who are called demons these days were once called angels.

Youre spot on the money here, Belial - Demons and Angels are equally as nasty as one another and neither should be dealt with lightly. Assuming that an angel will help you just because its an angel is like assuming a police officer wants to help you cross the road, or a fire engine will stop for you at an intersection - it just doesnt happen in the real world.

[Muloc7253]

I think angels/demons and cops/criminals is a good analogy. It really depends on what angle you're looking at it as to who is "evil" when the answer really is neither. Cops are there to uphold the law, but some of them are still pricks, some are very judgement, whereas a jailbird could have committed a lot of crime in their lifetime due to circumstances but deep down are very caring, genuine people that would never hurt an innocent person. That's how I see angels and demons.