Why does Satanism cause depression in me?

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: mateoflerajie

I think saying people with mental health problems shouldn't practice magick is a prejudice, there are many shades of mental illness and people aren't all psychotic. Even if they were, it's not for life if they're medically treated properly (or lucky.)

Personally there are some magicks I don't tend to do much of if they make me feel unstable, and my magics work towards building up stability rather than breaking it down. Also if I'm doing a working I feel frightened will destabilise me, I evoke a demon of health to protect me in the ritual.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Neophyte

Hmmm... I wonder how many of us magicians, RHP or LHP are mentaly "healthly," at least according to what most psychiatrists consider mental health to be. Or, on a further note, seeing that many would dismiss belief in magic as a severe delusion, perhaps the question should be stated: How many of us have taken up the occult as a reaction to some problem or another? How many of us were at least homosexual or something else "different," and how many of us have had depresions or other clinicaly diagnosable mental quirk?

Really, this question has a while ago come to my mind: Practicing magick is decidedly unsafe for the emotionaly unstable people... exempt that if they stopped taking it up, magick would probably die out with this generation! :-)

On a side note, what do you think about the "psychiatry current" or, on the whole, of the "medical profession current?" You see, I have had this anxiety over doctors and all things connected with them, well, a phobia, really, and I believe it is because they put a prognosis on you, like an unavoidable destiny, narrowing out your reality to the frame labeled "diagnosis -insert your diagnosis-." From then on, unless you are really strong, your subconscious part, that parts of your being you have no control over, react and adapt to this and make you flow with the medical current and to the imposed "truth" that the only way how to get rid of your diagnose is to recieve the treatment that is in accordance with the medicinal paradigm.
I know medical science does a great job and I believe almost no doctor wants harm to his patients, but this is very unnerving to me and I wonder if others have had similar experiences or beliefs.

All things considered, is it better for a mentaly ill patient to submit to the medical merry-go-round which tells him "you are ill, you are the poor patient, so be patient, it is a long-track run," which impregnates his sub-consciousness with programs that affirm his illness as a stable fact and his healing as a forever distant future, or become an occultist and spit in the face of the grim fate-bound rationality with the fool's hope of a higher reality and the dominion of soul over matter*?

To Tevnon: Take this only as a suggestion, and not as a challenge, but why not, instead of avoiding ambiguity, map out what triggers the depression and then jump right into it and try to connect with the parts of your body and mind that feel depressed? I do have certain experience with this, and though it was never a pleasant experience, I am more than half phobic than I used to be via this method. The question is: If you did not know you had some "bi-polar disorder" and just percieved the anxiety on it's face value, would you still try to avoid it, or, believing it were a simple "mental block" and not an almighty "mental disease," "caused by brain malfunctions, supressable only by pharmaceuthica, etc., etc." would you rather not try to uncover the reasons behind it and then deal with it once and for all? Since after all people do overcome their mental blocks, don't they? It is possible, isn't it?

A last question, do you believe one can be an occultist, moreover, a chaos magician or a satanist, AND a diagnosed and treatment-seeking psychiatry patient?

*since mental illnesses would qualify very much as material, or at best, astral, IMO.

[alex nero]

Practicing Satanism should be an enlightening,uplifting experience.If you are not fully aligned with Satan,this may be a problem.You can't do this half-heartedly.Also,anxiety about results/non-results vary from person to person,so pehaps patience will help.Also,don't out push your magical limits.But if you are allergic to something,you must avoid it.Sorry!

[blackdove]

this is very true.when I thought of becomming a satanist I felt very depressive too.and why is it that many satanic people and websites tell me that satan is my "friend" and not my enemy,but when I got a pendulum reading,it told me otherwise?

when they read me with a pendulum,it told me that satan wanted to use me for HIS advantage.it read that satan wanted me to be a big and succesful satanist,so that I would gather around 50 followers,and therefore get us all in one group.his advantage,not as a friend.I find these to be true because at the time the thought of being a big occultist fasinated me too.and what really fascinated me at the time,and still does,was the thought of wearing those badass sigils and seals that represent satan,just like the way that many people find it fascinating to wear a badass nazi suit.not to be racist or offensive,but the nazi suit is really fascinating in a way,with the badass hakenkreuz around the arm.I also had a friend once that was satanist and told me how satan was supposebly not "evil" to humanity,but was rather friendly to mankind and always there to help those in need.a year later,though,while I was behind bars in a facility,he also arrived.he then had many problems with other inmates,such as getting raped orally and possibly getting his food taken.he got mistreated both physically and verbally,and got beat up many times.I honestly felt bad for him,and when i asked him where satan was and why he[satan] allowed him to get mistreated in such way,that why didnt he ask for his help,he told me "it doesnt work that way".and when I told him "didnt you say that satan was your friend and was always there to help you?' he responded that he didnt want to be a satanist anymore and was "trying to get away from that".

I mean,why would satan want to do all of these negative things,but at the same time,satan is a "friend"

it is because of these reasons that I never decided to go ahead and become a satanist.these are the reasons that always kept that desition at bay.because I fear that in the end,in some way,I was going to get backstabbed and betrayed by satan.

[akimbomoss]

Blackdove. You control the power and the power controls you. I personally wait for satan to come to me for help tell me to take the train. I do not ask satan for help.

There are many layers to what you are saying. In short: change energies.

[blackdove]

what do you mean by "change energies"??

[akimbomoss]

what do you mean by "change energies"??

Why do you focus on Satan so much? Satan is the fiery will that pushes us forward. If you keep on focusing on his energy constantly it will push you beyond your limits. What about the billions of other energies out there?

Just my 2 cents.

[blackdove]

thats true.maybe I will.

[Archangelos]

Original post: Tevnon

For starters I'm not a Satanist, but a chaote(or at very least I'm strongly influenced by Chaos magic) who occasionally has used Satanism as a paradigm.
At various times I've worked with traditional Satanism, LaVey Satanism, and even basic Satanic dabbling as paradigms. Without fail Satanic practice always induces a ceartain amount of depression in me.
I do know that I'm slightly bipolar anyway, but that still doesn't fully explain it. I don't get it. Why can't I use/practice anything Satanic without my mood dropping into a depressed state?

Well, this is an interesting question. First of all, as you may know, I'm a simple Christian and a former Theology major. Studied Thelema formally for about a decade until I grew totally bored from outgrowing the thing. So anyway, I just consider myself a simple, conservative, fundamentalist Christian who just happens to have accidentally solved the Riddle of AL. Ok?

That being said, I would first like to say I'm sorry that you once used LaVeyan Satanism as a paradigm. For us who have been in Theological and comparative religious studies as long as I have, I don't really know how to express how much pure contempt we hold for LaVey. LaVeyan Satanism is kind of like The Complete Idiots Guide to dumbed-down Devil Worship. It really is. It's pathetic. I say that simply to state that if you want to be a really evil ****, you probably should opt for becoming a Black Brother of Crowley's averse A.'.A.'. or something.

Anywho, the short answer as to the depression is that Satanism is not your True Will. It is useless for you to try to fight against your True Self, Higher Self, and Holy Guardian Angel. It is especially foolish to misunderstand your own Will. All things in the universe actually tend toward Good and it is only the taint of the False Will that creates the illusion of the Universal Sorrow and Death.

Doesn't seem like rocket science to me that the Light of God in Xristos and man's own Anointing would give him True Bliss in His True Thelema, but millions of occultists persist in this misunderstanding of the Great Work and go on in their delusion and never understand why they can take a million steps in the wrong direction and not even one in the right direction.

Ignorant mankind.

LaVey was a lying charlatan who wrote for debased, reactionary morons. And Crowley was a cackling devil openly mocking his dupes.

Remember the Law of the Aeon? Do What thou Wilt? Then do that, and no other shall say nay. And if Satanism isn't it, then you might realize what your own True Will always was.

Consider the lilies of the field. [thumbup]

P.S. I mean for the LOVE OF JESUS, dude! Wake up and stop being retarded!

[dodaive]

Please note that the above post by Archangelos is locked and currently being reviewed, as to its appropriateness.

[Archangelos]

Thank you for the review. I don't think I made any grammatical or spelling errors, but sometimes my dyslexia starts acting up.

Basically, the main point in all of this is that everyone is bipolar. Sorry to break the news to you if you didn't already know, but yes, every single sentient human being on this earth is completely and totally bipolar. Those who deny it are lying to themselves. Those who don't know it are simply ignorant.

I could go into the Theological reasons why this is so, but for the time being, just know that whether Saint or Sinner, you're crazy just like the rest of us. So don't feel too bad. Welcome to the world.

[yay]

[Nahemah]

I don't think I made any grammatical or spelling errors, but sometimes my dyslexia starts acting up.

This is not why your post was locked for review.There are several points of potential contention in the post which could be seen as inflammatory and while there is no bar on giving your opinion on other Paradigms,your rights of expression end where other members rights begin.You are free to dislike LaVeyan Satanism,if you wish,but be mindful that others are equally free to challenge you on this,especially when you frame your post in these terms:

That being said, I would first like to say I'm sorry that you once used LaVeyan Satanism as a paradigm. For us who have been in Theological and comparative religious studies as long as I have, I don't really know how to express how much pure contempt we hold for LaVey. LaVeyan Satanism is kind of like The Complete Idiots Guide to dumbed-down Devil Worship. It really is. It's pathetic. I say that simply to state that if you want to be a really evil ****, you probably should opt for becoming a Black Brother of Crowley's averse A.'.A.'. or something.

And the 'for us' part,contrasts sharply with the 'I have' part.Which is it,your own opinion or the shared views of multiple persons? [confused]

You then make a list of non sequiturs,that do not give any cohesive reasoning for your dislike.Insults are as insults read.

We do not encourage flame wars here,so this review basically,is a form of reminder that you agreed to certain rules of conduct when you signed up here.That is all.Perhaps some clarification and anecdotes that explain your dislike would be better than the terms you utilised above.

Debate is encouraged,but trolling for an argument gets old and boring quite quickly,unless it's amusing and witty.This falls far short on both counts.

Also,We are not Grammar Nazis here.Many members speak English as a second language and we are reasonably sensitive in regard to typos and post errors,medical conditions and other such issues. [thumbup]

Basically, the main point in all of this is that everyone is bipolar. Sorry to break the news to you if you didn't already know, but yes, every single sentient human being on this earth is completely and totally bipolar. Those who deny it are lying to themselves. Those who don't know it are simply ignorant.

Wow,you should bring some evidence/references to back the Bipolar assertion.That is a very odd/disjointed statement to throw in here.

I could go into the Theological reasons why this is so, but for the time being, just know that whether Saint or Sinner, you're crazy just like the rest of us. So don't feel too bad. Welcome to the world.

[yay]

Please do,by all means.I am curious as to these 'Theological reasons' and so far you have not adequately supported any contention you've made,so some clarification would be appreciated.

[akimbomoss]

2 things:

1. Enlightenment will make you feel more bipolar

2. Watch out using the word "is". Robert Anton Wilson dislikes the word "is". Please read "The THING that ATE the CONSTITUTION" and look for the part about being jewish.

http://www.rawilson.com/quantum.html

Now the "accidents" -- which include everything you can observe about the bread, with your senses, or with the most subtle scientific instruments -- admittedly do not change. To your eyes or taste buds or electron microscopes the bread has undergone no change at all. It doesn't even weigh as much as a human body, but retains the weight of a small piece of bread. Nonetheless, to Catholics, after the Miracle (which any priest can perform) the bread "is" the body of the aforesaid dead Jew, one Yeshua ben Yusef, who the goys of the Vatican call Jesus Christ. In other words, the "essence" of the bread "is" the dead Jew.

It appears obvious that, within this framework, the "essence" of the bread can "be" anything, or can "be" asserted to "be" anything. It could "be" the essence of the Easter Bunny, or it could "be" Jesus and the Easter Bunny both, or it could "be" the Five Original Marx Brothers, or it could "be" a million other spooks happily co-existing in the realm outside spacetime where such metaphysical entities appear to reside.

[Muloc7253]

Two points to consider

1) Embracing Satan means shedding all of the restrictions and negative oppressions of puritanical or christian thinking, but you also loses some of the "positives" that you might have enjoyed - the feeling of security, always protected, always unconditionally loved. To go from that (which you don't have to be a Christian to FEEL) to being responsible for your own actions and drawing on yourself to overcomee problems can shake you up a bit and might be a bit hard to accept and move on.

2) Obvious one, Satan is constantly associated with evil, misery, torture, torment, Hell, negativity etc. in the media so those same symbols probably bring those same associations to your mind.

[blackdove]

@muloc7253-

wow,I actually never thought of that first one.and of course,since he's "the devil".One thing that I always point out to christians is the inquisition,suprisingly,most Iv come across with dont even know what that is.but with all that tortue and killing of such innocent people,whose the real "devil" then? [neutral]

[Muloc7253]

Well, two ressurections and hundreds of thousands of murders later, Christianity has a lot of making up to do! Its not Jesus' fault though. He promised that although his miracles were great, greater will his followers miracles be. When people disregard religion and start to follow what Jesus really taught, perhaps we'll see miracles.