LIRP??

[jimmyjames]

When doing daily ritual I had been using a relaxation ritual followed by the LBRP and the Middle Pillar ritual. I have recently decided to use the LIRP instead of the LBRP during the morning and the LBRP without doing the MP ritual at night. I am not sure of how to properly use the invoking ritual. More accurately I don't know what I should be feeling or visualizing energy wise differently than the banishing ritual. Can anyone enlighten me on the LIRP?

[Madavascus]

Dear jimmyjames,

My experience with the Lesser Invoking Ritual of the Pentagram is rather limited because the late Israel Regardie disapproved of its practice in the early stages of a Neophyte's magical regimen, if my memory is correct. My experiments with this form of the Lesser Ritual of the Pentagram is that the serene feeling that often accompanies a successful performance of the LBRP is not felt in the same way. Instead of feeling an occult vacuum like the LBRP does through its banishing, purifying dynamic, the LIRP charges the circle (and subsequently, yourself) with the occult energies the names invoke. In other words, in the LBRP, you use the exalted Holy Names and the names of the Four Archangels to banish the negativity out of your being, whereas in the LIRP, you use the Names to invoke the positive energies they invoke in your being. That is how I understand the essential difference between these two forms of the LRP.

I hope this has been useful... [smile]

[jimmyjames]

Thanks!!

I am still working on the ritual with limited levels of success. I think continued practice will get me more defined results. In my limited experience I have found that it takes me doing a ritual a few times before it is successful.

[Madavascus]

Thanks!!

I am still working on the ritual with limited levels of success. I think continued practice will get me more defined results. In my limited experience I have found that it takes me doing a ritual a few times before it is successful.

Yes, and that is very wise of you. This is particularly true of theurgy, it seems. [smile]

[Phronesis]

Thanks!!

I am still working on the ritual with limited levels of success. I think continued practice will get me more defined results. In my limited experience I have found that it takes me doing a ritual a few times before it is successful.

Beginning with ritual work does work, but it's terribly slow. You'll make more progress exclusively meditating 10 minutes a day for your first year than you will exclusively performing the LBRP for 2 hours each day for your first three years. A neophyte can't actually perform the LBRP, and properly banish energies, until:

1. He can focus to some degree, which usually takes about a year of training daily.
2. He develops the Plastic Imagination. This is the ability to form definite energy structures with your imagination, and it generally takes a year or longer of daily energy work for a beginner (e.g.: Sukha Purvaka is an excellent exercise). The only way to verify it is to have a clairvoyant adept look at you, and tell you what exactly you're imagining; more practically, though, you can just perform imagination training exercises until simple shapes become easy, and you can feel substance behind the imagination.
3. Develops the ability to mentally control the vital force. This goes hand in hand with the plastic imagination, and generally requires quite a bit of training in energy work.
4. He has ability to vibrate on the etheric, astral, and mental levels. This can take a very long time to perfect.
5. He has gained control of the so-called elemental energies in his own personality, attaining the so-called "Elemental Equilibrium," which is again related to 2 and 3. This is generally accomplished through noble living and systematically attacking vices.

The Golden Dawn gave the ritual because it was a simple exercise that trained you in all of the above exercises. The problem, though, is that the training should really depend mostly on mental exercises with the LBRP as an after thought (that is how it was actually taught in the GD anyway). Crowley's system was quite a bit more effective, since he understood all of this, and incorporated meditation training, energy work (pranayama), and imagination training into his curriculum.

Look at Franz Bardon's "Initiation Into Hermetics" for a more effective routine, significantly moreso even than the AA, that will develop all of the above abilities much faster than the GD exercises. I can speak from personal experience, trying each for several years, and having taught many people who have done the same.

[Mr. Alejos]

Beginning with ritual work does work, but it's terribly slow. You'll make more progress exclusively meditating 10 minutes a day for your first year than you will exclusively performing the LBRP for 2 hours each day for your first three years. A neophyte can't actually perform the LBRP, and properly banish energies, until:

1. He can focus to some degree, which usually takes about a year of training daily.
2. He develops the Plastic Imagination. This is the ability to form definite energy structures with your imagination, and it generally takes a year or longer of daily energy work for a beginner (e.g.: Sukha Purvaka is an excellent exercise). The only way to verify it is to have a clairvoyant adept look at you, and tell you what exactly you're imagining; more practically, though, you can just perform imagination training exercises until simple shapes become easy, and you can feel substance behind the imagination.
3. Develops the ability to mentally control the vital force. This goes hand in hand with the plastic imagination, and generally requires quite a bit of training in energy work.
4. He has ability to vibrate on the etheric, astral, and mental levels. This can take a very long time to perfect.
5. He has gained control of the so-called elemental energies in his own personality, attaining the so-called "Elemental Equilibrium," which is again related to 2 and 3. This is generally accomplished through noble living and systematically attacking vices.

The Golden Dawn gave the ritual because it was a simple exercise that trained you in all of the above exercises. The problem, though, is that the training should really depend mostly on mental exercises with the LBRP as an after thought (that is how it was actually taught in the GD anyway). Crowley's system was quite a bit more effective, since he understood all of this, and incorporated meditation training, energy work (pranayama), and imagination training into his curriculum.

Look at Franz Bardon's "Initiation Into Hermetics" for a more effective routine, significantly moreso even than the AA, that will develop all of the above abilities much faster than the GD exercises. I can speak from personal experience, trying each for several years, and having taught many people who have done the same.

I don’t see jumping into ritual work as particularly slower, as far as progress goes, than meditation. On that matter I feel like we must define what we consider “progress”, but that sounds like another thread.

I am of the mind that ritual and meditation is really the same thing. When these rituals are properly performed then the requirements, as per your post, for their performance are slowly met. If the requirements are met none the less, why does the meditative preparation make the performance of these rites more effectual? Will the aspirant not eventualy get there?

A child does not already know how to ride a bike, but get him on one everyday and he eventually will!

Now on your comment about Crowley's incorporated curriculum. Was meditation, energy work and imagination training not a part of the Golden Dawn curriculum?

Franz Bardon has given a wonderful system of initiation, but it is not for everyone. What I enjoy about his system is that he forces aspirants to develop the internal cornerstone without all the pageantry of ceremonial.

I believe all paths are equally efficient and the one chosen should best suit the aspirant’s temperament. I am not certain about how I feel calling one more effective.

And I hope you dont mind if I ask why you went through three different schools of initiation? [happy2]

[Mr. Alejos]

Thanks!!

I am still working on the ritual with limited levels of success. I think continued practice will get me more defined results. In my limited experience I have found that it takes me doing a ritual a few times before it is successful.

Persistence, Perspiration and Personality are the keys to making Magick happen! Best of luck on your ventures! [happy2]

[Phronesis]

I don’t see jumping into ritual work as particularly slower, as far as progress goes, than meditation. On that matter I feel like we must define what we consider “progress”, but that sounds like another thread.

The reason I disagree with you is my personal experience with it, and the experience of about 80 students. The vast majority of them hopped around the Golden Dawn orders, or spent years, in some cases decades, practicing the LBRP and MPR. Then, in three months, through a meditative approach combined with meditative energy work, which is actually a simplification of very elaborate ritual to simple visualizations, they make more progress. What is this? I think we all know. Well, if you ever have to ask if you're making progress, you aren't making progress! At the beginning level, it's a rapid transformation and ennoblement of character, a subtle bliss and happiness that perforates meditation and life, and various experiences in meditation. Likewise, I practiced the LBRP and MPR consistently for about a year and a half before I went for a more meditative approach in the beginning, and I had similar results when I made the switch.

That said, ritual is an EXTREMELY fast path later down the line. There are Theurgic rituals, not commonly known, that awaken the energy centers with about one to two orders of magnitude greater (10-100x) speed of the most effective energy meditation techniques, such as the Kriya Yoga technique. The problem? It takes a decade or so of training to make your nervous system and etheric body strong enough to handle the energy of such a ritual, and many other preparatory attainments (see, for example, the list I gave above). Really, the first decade of practice is generally about training the physical and etheric bodies to allow your generally older astral and mental bodies to shine through. Practiced before the preparation, such a ritual is close to useless.

Progress is complicated, like you implied, but I think everyone has some idea of it. At the lower levels of training, which is what we are discussing, the goal is generally Gnosis, experiencing yourself as a part of God in a waking state. Progress can be simplified to the degree to which a particular technique brings you to that state. More practically, this has to do with the preparation of the etheric body and nervous system and the stimulation of the various energy centers, among other things.

Now on your comment about Crowley's incorporated curriculum. Was meditation, energy work and imagination training not a part of the Golden Dawn curriculum?

None of those three were emphasized in the outer grades, no. That's part of the reason, I think, the order fell; the students weren't evolved or matured, and they were given certain techniques before they were ready.

Franz Bardon has given a wonderful system of initiation, but it is not for everyone. What I enjoy about his system is that he forces aspirants to develop the internal cornerstone without all the pageantry of ceremonial.

I completely agree.

I believe all paths are equally efficient and the one chosen should best suit the aspirant’s temperament. I am not certain about how I feel calling one more effective.

All schools of magic are not equal, because quite simply, some (the vast majority of currently established ones) were created by people who didn't know what they were doing. I would support this argument with the observation that there has not been significant advancement in occult literature since Aleister Crowley; the systems are not producing many adepts. Many schools, also, do not even know what Hermeticism or Theurgy is. Most Hermetic orders don't even study the Corpus Hermetica, the closest document to the foundational doctrine of Hermetics that history affords us. Whereas the Corpus Hermetica tells the initiate how he must constaatly strive towards God, the literature of these other authors and schools (I have been through my fair share of them) make no mention of the Good/God. They are not Hermetic or Theurgic, so they are bad Theurgic schools.

There are many paths fit for the various aspirants, absolutely. Different styles, if you will. For example, many of the major martial arts systems were actually outer order schools. The initiate, after having gone through those, would then go on to learn how to enter the meditative states, etc., and attain enlightenment. There are many different systems of magic, like Tantra Yoga, or Sufism, but they all have common elements. They are all good, and no one path is fit for anyone, in my opinion. I agree in that respect; the path depends on the unique student, and his past life associations.

And I hope you dont mind if I ask why you went through three different schools of initiation?

Haha, a good question! I never went through three different schools of initiation. But, in my first two-three years of magic, I tried out three different systems, before I finally found the particular lineage that I am currently part of. Like you said, magic requires "Persistence, Perspiration", and focus. You can't go hopping from system to system all your life and hope to get anywhere, clearly!

[jimmyjames]

I have abandon the LIRP as I am not getting the results I wanted. It seemed to be making me depressed and lethargic. I went back to the LBRP and the MPR. After a couple of days with no LIRP I feel normal again. I am also looking into joining a Golden Dawn group. I am not sure which one as of yet but I definitely need more guidance. I am looking at David Griffin's Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn and the Cicero's Golden Dawn. Has anyone had experience with either of these groups good or bad??

[Madavascus]

I joined Griffin's H.O.G.D. in 2007, and my friend, I seriously can't recommend it. There is fellowship to be had in such an incarnation of the original order, but many who join end up leaving the order when they realize that they've been charged a large sum of money for something that should (ideally) be free, especially in this day and age.

You are much better off purchasing Israel Regardie's masterpiece, The Golden Dawn: The Original Account of the Teachings, Rites & Ceremonies of the Hermetic Order, studying it with diligence and tact like a devoted student would, join one of the many free and open Golden Dawn forums/groups and learn from those that have walked the path.

I seriously never read any of the Ciceros' work, so I can't recommend it, but I've been meaning to do so for a number of years. Their work Self-Initiation Into the Golden Dawn Tradition: A Complete Cirriculum of Study for Both the Solitary Magician and the Working Magical Group looks very interesting, but I never read it.

Also, I guess it goes without saying that purchasing an astral initiation from the E.O.G.D. would be an asinine notion, and that an intellectually healthy individual such as yourself, would never consider such an option... [thumbup]

[Frater Yechidah]

I have abandon the LIRP as I am not getting the results I wanted. It seemed to be making me depressed and lethargic. I went back to the LBRP and the MPR. After a couple of days with no LIRP I feel normal again. I am also looking into joining a Golden Dawn group. I am not sure which one as of yet but I definitely need more guidance. I am looking at David Griffin's Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn and the Cicero's Golden Dawn. Has anyone had experience with either of these groups good or bad??

The LIRP should not make you feel depressed or lethargic. Either you're doing it very wrong or those results are coming from something else entirely. SSoromany's experience of the invoking form is more accurate.

Have you considered employing the original recommended form of invoking in the morning and banishing at night? Unless you're doing an experiment or specific magical work at night it can be a bad idea to invoke then, as you'll likely be very active on the astral plane throughout the night, which will mean less deep, restful sleep, a depletion of seratonin, and thus depression and tiredness as a result. This is the only direct explanation I can think of for your experience, but it depends on you doing it at night.

The Cicero group is good. I was a member for a while before joining Nick Farrell's GD Order (Magical Order of Aurora Aurea). I think the quality of an Order varies from temple to temple, however, so a good Order does not necessarily mean your local temple will be up to scratch. It's worth doing some research before making a decision on joining a group.

Just a comment on fees. I agree that Orders should not be charging exorbitant fees. Unfortunately there are more than a few groups out there that amount to little more than money-making cons. However, genuine groups will usually have to charge small fees to cover hall rental and to afford procuring tools, regalia, and so forth required for initiation. I think it would be inappropriate to expect that other people would foot the bill for your magical and spiritual progress. It would be like, in a way, expecting someone else to buy your books for you. Again, however, it needs to be only what is needed to cover expenses, not to pay for a leader's holiday, and the group should be transparent with its members about where the money is going.

LVX,
Yechidah.