Carroll's The Octavo

[Madavascus]

Fellow occultists,

I am currently in the process of reading Peter J. Carroll's latest publication: The Octavo. It is quite literally a fascinating work, if a little difficult in its erudition (what with all of Carroll's mathematical abstractions). I find that if you try to follow him as he explains the "physics" of his occult science, he eventually indulges you with a more simple explanation of his meaning.

At the end of Chapter 1, Carroll outlines what he deems to be the essential structure of a magical ritual:

1. Centering: The magician powers up for magical action.
2. Encircling: The magician connects with the macrocosm.
3. Invocation: The magician summons useful sources of power and knowledge.
4. Conjuration: The magician does the magic, enchantment, divination, evocation, etc.
5. Banishing: The magician sets the magic free.

Also included in Chapter 1 is perhaps one of the best exhaustive definitions of the state of Gnosis upon which all of Chaos Magic depends. Carroll defines Gnosis to be "that strangely abstracted state of single pointed awareness wherein virtually everything else in the universe disappears." Masterful.

I wonder if there are others here who have read, or are in the process of reading The Octavo at the present moment. Please feel free to share your thoughts on the book. [smile]

[Clockwork Ghost]

Although I havent read The Octavo, I have read other books of Peter Carrolls' and did have a short email correspondence with him for a time when I considered writing a book of my own. If you do choose to post more on this book, I will be most interested to hear your thoughts and review, as it's a topic that much interests me - chaos magic being one of my favourite paradigms. Out of interest, have you spent time exploring http://specularium.org/? The site goes into great detail about Peter Carrolls theories on three dimensional time, which might interest you, and eight dimensional space. It takes a bit to get your head around the physics involved, as it does with The Octavio by the sound of it, but its definitely worth it - especially with the concept of three dimensional time, a concept that is totally mind blowing once you begin to plumb its depths.

[Madavascus]

Dear Case, Carroll's Specularium is an interesting website, but I have yet to sit down and really try to get my head around his physics.

On that subject, I find it very respectable that a modern occultist tries to interpret the Mysteries using modern mathematical language and abstractions. I recall the words of Cornelius Agrippa in the first of his Three Books of Occult Philosophy, essentially saying that without a basis in mathematics, an occultists will never be able to truly understand the reality of occult virtues and how they project their influences through the Soul of the World. At first, this discouraged me and left me in a state of confusion. I think perhaps what Agrippa meant by this is that mathematical skill is required to do astrology because in his time, astrology was not as divorced from astronomy as ours is, and the vital information required to practice astrology was not computer-generated with some software that does all the tedious astrological calculations for you.

Furthermore, we need more Carrolls in this world to build bridges between the world of popular science and occult science, and the only way we'll get to this is if we can learn to speak their language and attain some sort of axiomatic common ground... Though I doubt I will see this happen in my lifetime.

[Clockwork Ghost]

Furthermore, we need more Carrolls in this world to build bridges between the world of popular science and occult science, and the only way we'll get to this is if we can learn to speak their language and attain some sort of axiomatic common ground... Though I doubt I will see this happen in my lifetime.

Yeah, I agree completely, we definitely need more people who ground their magical studies in logic and reasoning, rather than just going off half-cocked without any basis to back up their claims. The occult has always been and no doubt will always be an area that attracts a great deal of scorn from the mundane world. Most people dont believe in magic for the simple fact that science tells us it isnt real. Strangely enough though, science is quickly showing us the exact opposite through our studies into fields such as quantum physics and modern psychotherapy - things that have so long been considered mere fallacy, like bilocation, auric energy and the ability of the brain to reconstruct itself based on thought alone are actually now being proven to be true. That said, we still need to be resolute not to jump too swiftly to conclusions based on heresay evidence and a personal desire for things to be true - there are still plenty of nutters out there who use the occult to justify their own breed of insanity... [crazy]

[Madavascus]

...there are still plenty of nutters out there who use the occult to justify their own breed of insanity... [crazy]

Hahaha, well said! [thumbup]

[Rin]

Every universe potentially has its own Supreme Grimoire containing the spells which define its reality and the magic which you can perform within that reality.

Well, at least he's humble...

[Rin]

Sorry for the double post, but I took a look at it last night and it seemed like more of the usual from Carroll. Lots of nonsensical rambling about theoretical mathematics and physics, egotistic ranting about a new era of magic and referencing Pratchett more often than even I'm comfortable with, at least for an allegedly serious author. All that, without much actual practical advice. Not to mention the standard horrible cover image.

Is he actually selling this thing for money? Surely Pratchett or his publisher would sue to protect their intellectual property.