Just a question as to what most think about this subject. I've been a solitary practitioner for about 13 years now and never have really have had a chance to talk to other mystics. I never really considered Thelema to be Satanic. I think I read through the Satanic Bible when I was about 13 or 14 can't remember. Never really found much depth or use for the thing. I was strongly attracted to the mystico-spiritual side of Christianity, and believe I have found my true path and will within it. Then I discovered Thelema. And then I got in touch with my Holy Guardian Angel, whom I'll not name at this time.
I consider myself to be a Christian and have no problem accepting the Law of Thelema as Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. I believe the New Testament as well. I see no conflict whatsoever in these belief systems. In fact, I believe the New Testament to contain the Law of Thelema in the teachings of Jesus Christ. My magickal training comes primarily from my years of absorbing the Equinox in its original form, Greek and Hebrew studies, and years of Theological training in translating old Greek incantations. That's probably what gave me the ability to crack the cypher in Liber AL 2:76.
I think the Satanism thing may come from the symbolism in the Book of the Law. But even in this case the Law of Thelema pertains and leaves the choice with the student. So I cannot understand how Thelema, per se, is of necessity Satanic. I suppose it is if one wants it to be. But not necessarily. You might get that one in a million case where it's just the opposite. For example, I firmly believe that a piece like Psalm 18 is a work of the purest magickal invocation.
All I can say is that if Thelema is Satanic, then Crowley taught me more about Christianity than any other theologian besides Jesus Christ ever has. So I suppose it all evens out. Don't ask me how that happened.
Is Thelema Satanic? -- A Christian Perspective
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Archangelos
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JonBrim
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Re: Is Thelema Satanic? -- A Christian Perspective
No Thelema is not satanic. Lavey stole some of Crowley's writings and sayings and added them to his belief system. I hope that helps.
Thou shalt go upon the lion and adder, the young lion and the dragon shalt tread under thy feet.
Re: Is Thelema Satanic? -- A Christian Perspective
I sometimes wonder about it specially when I see it tagged under Satanism like at the main page here in OF. It sometimes can be a kind of a mind-f.... typical Crowley I'd guess.
Re: Is Thelema Satanic? -- A Christian Perspective
I'm no expert, but it's never, to me, seemed satanic beyond the way that most christian institutions view most other religions as satanic.
"The path of the Sage is called
'The Path of Illumination'
he who gives himself to this path
is like a block of wood
that gives itself to the chisel-
cut by cut it is honed to perfection"
- DDJ, Verse 27
"It's still magic even if you know how it's done." - Terry Pratchett
'The Path of Illumination'
he who gives himself to this path
is like a block of wood
that gives itself to the chisel-
cut by cut it is honed to perfection"
- DDJ, Verse 27
"It's still magic even if you know how it's done." - Terry Pratchett
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Nahemah
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Re: Is Thelema Satanic? -- A Christian Perspective
My goodness,your right,I hadn't noticed that....specially when I see it tagged under Satanism like at the main page here in OF
I think that is a miscategerisation.I have Thelemic friends and they do not consider themselves Satanic at all.However before I say anymore,I 've asked for some feedback from some of them,as I feel this information is best sourced from those who will know best.
I think Rin nailed it in his post,as did Jonbrim too. [thumbup]
My personal view is that Thelema is based in and around Western Magickal Tradition and I find the Thelemites I 've encountered/made friends with to be very honest and considerate folks. [geek2]
"He lived his words, spoke his own actions and his story and the story of the world ran parallel."
Sartre speaking of Che Guevara.
Sartre speaking of Che Guevara.
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Bohemian Alchemist
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Re: Is Thelema Satanic? -- A Christian Perspective
As with many of these things, it depends on how it is being defined ("Satanic" in this case).
It is well worth bearing in mind that the accusations of Satanism surrounded Crowley long before the LaVey business got on the road and that Crowley himself did engage in behaviours that conform to the traditional activities of a "Satanist".
However, meaning is in the eye of the beholder.
Take for a starting point the Thelemic axiom "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law". Taken as a directive to "do what you want" this axiom would essentially be Satanic as defined by Christian institutions, for who, God's Will is perfect and immutable and it is the place of humanity to align their Wills with the Will of God. Therefore, anything which deviates from that alignment is necessarily Satanic in that it echoes the self-determining pride of Satan.
However, taken in its esoteric understanding, "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" is understood as suggesting that the human being has a perfect Will which, when heeded and accepted, will ensure that the human being lives a life that "travels its appointed course". This idea is profoundly Right Hand Path and, according to some, may even suggest that humanity cannot deviate from the Will of God.
This ability to have radically different multi-interpretations is typical of Thelema.
On a practical note, my interactions with Thelemites (including time as a "guest" in their O.T.O.) gives me over to think that I doubt very much if Thelemites would really care whether a person who accepts the Law of Thelema defines themselves as Satanist, Christian or Buddhist (or anything else). I remember eating at an O.T.O. gathering and at the same table as myself sat three individuals (all members of the order) who identified themselves with those three labels all while being devout Thelemites.
It is well worth bearing in mind that the accusations of Satanism surrounded Crowley long before the LaVey business got on the road and that Crowley himself did engage in behaviours that conform to the traditional activities of a "Satanist".
However, meaning is in the eye of the beholder.
Take for a starting point the Thelemic axiom "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law". Taken as a directive to "do what you want" this axiom would essentially be Satanic as defined by Christian institutions, for who, God's Will is perfect and immutable and it is the place of humanity to align their Wills with the Will of God. Therefore, anything which deviates from that alignment is necessarily Satanic in that it echoes the self-determining pride of Satan.
However, taken in its esoteric understanding, "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" is understood as suggesting that the human being has a perfect Will which, when heeded and accepted, will ensure that the human being lives a life that "travels its appointed course". This idea is profoundly Right Hand Path and, according to some, may even suggest that humanity cannot deviate from the Will of God.
This ability to have radically different multi-interpretations is typical of Thelema.
On a practical note, my interactions with Thelemites (including time as a "guest" in their O.T.O.) gives me over to think that I doubt very much if Thelemites would really care whether a person who accepts the Law of Thelema defines themselves as Satanist, Christian or Buddhist (or anything else). I remember eating at an O.T.O. gathering and at the same table as myself sat three individuals (all members of the order) who identified themselves with those three labels all while being devout Thelemites.
Re: Is Thelema Satanic? -- A Christian Perspective
Exactly! My opinion as Thelemite with atheistic views, is that Satanism and Christianity (as well as Islam and ect.), are the two sides of same dualistic coin. Satan in many cultures represent different things, often god in one religion represent devil in another and vice versa. Dualism divide things in our subconscious mind, making things we like "Godish" and those we dont like "Satanic", but alchemy of mind is to unite, not to divide. This is why I don't like religions.Bohemian Alchemist wrote: However, meaning is in the eye of the beholder.
http://www.magick4life.com/ all about Magick, Aleister Crowley, Wicca, Thelema, Necronomicon, Tarot and much more.
Re: Is Thelema Satanic? -- A Christian Perspective
Archangelos wrote:Just a question as to what most think about this subject. I've been a solitary practitioner for about 13 years now and never have really have had a chance to talk to other mystics. I never really considered Thelema to be Satanic. I think I read through the Satanic Bible when I was about 13 or 14 can't remember. Never really found much depth or use for the thing. I was strongly attracted to the mystico-spiritual side of Christianity, and believe I have found my true path and will within it. Then I discovered Thelema. And then I got in touch with my Holy Guardian Angel, whom I'll not name at this time.
I consider myself to be a Christian and have no problem accepting the Law of Thelema as Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. I believe the New Testament as well. I see no conflict whatsoever in these belief systems. In fact, I believe the New Testament to contain the Law of Thelema in the teachings of Jesus Christ. My magickal training comes primarily from my years of absorbing the Equinox in its original form, Greek and Hebrew studies, and years of Theological training in translating old Greek incantations. That's probably what gave me the ability to crack the cypher in Liber AL 2:76.
I think the Satanism thing may come from the symbolism in the Book of the Law. But even in this case the Law of Thelema pertains and leaves the choice with the student. So I cannot understand how Thelema, per se, is of necessity Satanic. I suppose it is if one wants it to be. But not necessarily. You might get that one in a million case where it's just the opposite. For example, I firmly believe that a piece like Psalm 18 is a work of the purest magickal invocation.
All I can say is that if Thelema is Satanic, then Crowley taught me more about Christianity than any other theologian besides Jesus Christ ever has. So I suppose it all evens out. Don't ask me how that happened.
You have been studying 13yrs and you have no KNOWLEDGE? I don't have alot to say about any of this but I will say this his name was not Jesus christ and he was EGYPTIAN and his name was Iesus as in son of Isis. Also the so called Holy Guardian Angel that you think you contacted wasn't one.